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why do I have wastegate flutter/chatter on standard car?

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by V.I.P_UAE, Jan 25, 2009.

  1. V.I.P_UAE

    V.I.P_UAE Member

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    As above, i have slight wastegate chatter, the car is not modified in any way at all, its getting louder by the day, yeah sounds wicked but im sure it should not do that, unless someone has broken into my garage and fitted something while I was asleep lol..

    Anyone know what could cause this? It dosent seem to be down on power?
     
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  3. Tastyterrier

    Tastyterrier Monkey Trainer

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    Probably a knacked DV. The standard Bosch ones don't last a long time.
     
  4. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    yup, it's a split diaphram in the DV, replace it with a forge if you don't want it to happen again!

    Also, as per the thread on here the other day, it's not anything to do with the wastegate at all, that's a commonly made mistake.

    It's actually compressor stall, as the pressurised air inside the system hasn't been vented through the DV, because it's not openning.
     
  5. nickrex

    nickrex Member

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    Yeah. Definately a knackered dump valve. Mine did the same a couple of months ago. They're not expensive and a 10 minute job to fit.
     
  6. Dave_Bayern

    Dave_Bayern Slipping at 3.5Krpm

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    Diverter Valve, Not dump valve.

    The two are very different in operation.

    But yeah, as above. Yours is broken.
     
  7. V.I.P_UAE

    V.I.P_UAE Member

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    will it lose power through this, ive only had it 3 weeks, maybe it will be quicker after I change??
     
  8. V.I.P_UAE

    V.I.P_UAE Member

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    is a diverter valve different to a dumpvalve? where is this located? thnx
     
  9. themanthatcan

    themanthatcan Member
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    Yeah it'll cause the car to feel slower and (the way I understand it) also bring about premature failure of your turbo if not sorted out quickly. When you come off boost (ie when changing gear) the pressurised air is travelling back towards the turbo, causing the blades to slow down. When you come back on the power the turbo has to spool up all over again. This will affect performance.

    Andy
     
  10. 1animal1

    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!!
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    just buy a new one from Audi, cost nearly £20..... if your not bothered about the shiney Forge type then this will suit just fine.... unless you want to spend £80-£90
     
  11. V.I.P_UAE

    V.I.P_UAE Member

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    Dumpvalve or Diverter valve??? what do i need?

    thanks
    Oliver
     
  12. Andy_S3

    Andy_S3 Member
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    Diverter valve matey
     
  13. Dave_Bayern

    Dave_Bayern Slipping at 3.5Krpm

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    Simple.

    Dump valve - dumps air into the atmosphere
    Diverter Valve - diverts air back into the intake system

    No VAG Car has a dump valve
     
  14. V.I.P_UAE

    V.I.P_UAE Member

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    Excellent, does anyone know the part number?
    Cheers
    oliver
     
  15. SDO

    SDO Member

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    I have this but mines sounds more like i've got a atmospheric DV on, i haven't got a forge diverter valve would having a panel filter do anything
     
  16. Andy_S3

    Andy_S3 Member
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    A panel filter will increase the noise from the diverter valve slightly.
     
  17. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    the standard DV should sound a little like an atmospheric DV, the sound you hear is just comming from the air filter, and it's nothing to worry about.
     
  18. Mujnu

    Mujnu Member

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    Hi everyone. I'm having some waste gate flutter (I think it's that anyway) when I give it the beans in 4th and 5th. It starts at about approx 1900rpm and is gone by about 2200rpm. From what you guys have said im guessing it's the DV. I found a YouTube video which is similar to mine so if you lot can have a look and just let me know if I'm right in thinking it's the DV. Thanks.

    Sounds like this (watch from 7secs onwards):

     
  19. superkarl

    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    I love reading old threads. Especially this topic.

    No such thing as waste gate chatter/flutter.

    Based purely on what you're describing you are experiencing compressor surge, if occurring at full throttle, high gears (high load) and low in the rev range.
    What is the spec of the car in terms of mods?
     
  20. Mujnu

    Mujnu Member

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    Yes it's in the high gears at full throttle and low rev range but when the rev range rises it goes away. I can also sometimes hear it in 2nd and 3rd gear from a cold start but that goes away after the cars driven for a little while.

    The car is totally standard in terms of mods. So this compressor surge, how bad is it? How can it be fixed? Am I doomed?

    Thanks for the reply
     
  21. superkarl

    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    It's odd that you're experiencing this on a stock car. Is it remapped? By a previous owner?
    It's not the end of the world and the car will be ok. It's just an annoyance. I'm not sure myself how to solve the problem.
     
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  23. Mujnu

    Mujnu Member

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    It's not remapped from what I know. It was owned by a female police officer so I doubt it was remapped tbh. I'm taking it on for remap next month so hope it doesn't effect my power output. I don't know if this helps but when I hear that flutter sound the car feels a lot sluggish compared to normal but then it picks it's speed up. I'm baffled myself lol
     
  24. superkarl

    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    It may be the standard turbo intake pipe is cavitating and collapsing under load.
    You should consider upgrading this pipe for a 3 inch silicone one as its one of the best things you can do to the car, especially before a remap.
    Changing it out will allow you to inspect all the hoses aswell.
     
  25. Mujnu

    Mujnu Member

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    How much does that cost please mate? And where would I get it from?

    Thanks for all your help, I really appreciate it.
     
  26. superkarl

    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    Been a while since I bought mine but if memory serves me right it was ~£150 with an airfilter.

    They can be bought from as low as £90 I think now from the likes of creationmotorsport, the original and the best is Badger5.

    Searching B5 TIP will get you hundreds of results.

    It's worth noting that whilst it's a great thing to do to the car and you definitely should buy one, you should also check over the engine bay for split pipes etc, check the DV works, get a smoke test if you can, and scan the car using VCDS. A vag specialist should be able to do all this for you as part of a health check
     
  27. Mujnu

    Mujnu Member

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    I'll definitely have a look in to that. I've had a smoke test done few months ago and couldn't see anything escaping anywhere but when I take the car in for a remap they're going to do a health check on it before mapping it so hopefully everything comes up fine. I'll keep this thread updated if I figure out what the sound is in the future.

    Thanks for your help Karl.
     
  28. TitaniumRx

    TitaniumRx Member

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    Too much pressure and too early in rpm range made this happens.If you are stock,and i mean completely stock with your entire intake,then something is not work well.Is your spool time faster than before and earlier mate?
    This happens when the motor can't consumes fast and efficiently all the air turbo creates.Some air go back and hit the blades of the turbo,slow down the rpm of the turbo,then the efficiency of the intake recover,then the surge is there again and until the motor rpm rises .Bigger diameter in the intake pipe cure this some times,because the pressure drop at the compressor inlet point.
    This phenomenon is the cause of the special antisourge turbo inlets.They have a recirculating entrance to avoid the surge.
    Your programmer can cure this also with slow opening rate at the electronic throttle.



     
    #26 TitaniumRx, Jun 17, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2015
  29. Mujnu

    Mujnu Member

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    From what I can tell the spool time is the same. It starts fluttering when it's comming up to boost but goes away when it's hit boost rpm. It's been happening for quite some time now but thought I'd ask, especially because I'm getting a remap done. But, I definitely will put this info forward to my mapper mate. Thanks
     
  30. TitaniumRx

    TitaniumRx Member

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    This is the classic symptoms of the surge.But,if your turbo is ok,then your motor can't keep up with the turbo performance .Are you change lately the timing belt?Something with your intake?You have the stock air box?Your exhaust is free flowing?Check your wastegate also.
    I hope everything goes well :)
     
  31. Mujnu

    Mujnu Member

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    My timing belt was changed about a year ago. Everything else is totally stock I've not changed anything at all. So is there any way of fixing compressor surge? Or should I get rid of the car?
     
  32. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
    Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    Surge on a K04 typically only happens with aggressive maps on cars fitted with something like an 80mm TIP... even then the situations to make the setup surge would be something like 6th gear acceleration from a low rpm (2000-3000)

    Video your actual noise rather speculate based on info from a setup thats different to yours as context can be lost...

    Surge on K04's is easily mapped out using custom mapping... normally from rolling in the boost

    <tuffty/>
     
  33. Mujnu

    Mujnu Member

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    Okay that makes sense. I'll try get a video of the sound and at what revs it usually happens. Oh btw Tuffty seeing as you're a moderator, when I click the search function on this site I can't see what I'm writing, it's as though the font is the same colour as the search banner if you get what I'm saying.

    I've added a pic for you.
     

    Attached Files:

    #31 Mujnu, Jun 18, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2015
  34. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
    Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    Have notified admin of the issue mate...

    <tuffty/>
     
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  35. Administrators

    Administrators Administrator
    Staff Member Administrator Audi Sport Owner Group saloon Audi A2

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    Try the search now.... Have changed the site layout so it's better for mobiles...
     
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  36. Mujnu

    Mujnu Member

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    Yes it works fine now :)
     
  37. Mujnu

    Mujnu Member

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    Ok guys I tried my best to get a video of the sound on the way home from work. I took so many videos in different places but it's so hard to hear it. It's as though you need to actually be there to notice it. I've got a clip but not sure if you can make out but I'll upload anyway. I'll try get a better video later.

    Btw my car is a 1.9tdi if it helps.

    The flutter sound comes in at about 2/3secs in to the video at approx 1300rpm.

     
  38. Mujnu

    Mujnu Member

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    Oh wait I just realised I'm in the 8L section when I should be in 8P oops :/
     
  39. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
    Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    Awesome work dude LOL :D

    <tuffty/>
     
  40. Mujnu

    Mujnu Member

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    Haha! and the BAFTA goes to...
     

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