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Which would win? remapped 335d or remapped S3? hmmm?

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by PTTM, Jun 13, 2009.

  1. PTTM
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    PTTM Pedal to the Metal!!!

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    [Jun 13, 2009]
    Hey everyone,
    Im possibly looking to go down the 335d coupe route shortly:scared2:.
    Thats a maybe though. I am just contemplating which would be quicker from a standstill and "then from 40mph onwards!" - remapped 335d or remapped S3?

    Anyone have any thoughts.
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  3. Dandle
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    Dandle Member

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    [Jun 13, 2009]
    My guess would be the 335d being quicker. A remap to that takes it up to 350bhp and 700nm of torque. Whereas the S3 will reach about 315bhp with a remap(dont know the torque figure).
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  4. NHN
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    [Jun 13, 2009]
    TBH I reckon you'd appreciate the S3 more though, 4wd, highly tunable from Jonny & Andy's S3's, but thats just my opinion, the BMW interior just doesnt do it for me at all atm so think given thats what you'll see 99% of your time using the car the S3 is better for you.
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  5. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Jun 13, 2009]
    FWIW,many remapped S3;s here seem to hit about 360bhp and more,although they would be short on torque...mine for instance only manages 500Nm or 350lbs.

    An unmapped 335 was no problem recently,but I am sure the midrange grunt of a mapped one would be quite something.
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  6. NHN
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    [Jun 13, 2009]
    Yeah but with all that power in the rear then what about the control, thats what I like about the quattro & haldex is it feels alot more planted & when I used to take this one partcular corner at speed it used to stick like glue, not once can I recall it ever worrying me when taking corners, felt great & that was in my older S3 8L & S4 B6, so newer generation of haldex is better & there is actually the upgraded version of the 8P haldex available aswell, so for me its a no brainer, but each to there own.
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  7. Dandle
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    Dandle Member

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    [Jun 13, 2009]
    That would depend how accurate the rollers are though as to if that figure is correct, they possibly over read by a fair bit on the standard power figure. The figures i used were from Evolveds website who are pretty well thought of in the tuning world. So I wouldnt think they are that far out and both figures are from the same dyno.
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  8. Matt
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    Matt Active Member

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    [Jun 13, 2009]
    I can imagine a remapped 335d being a difficult car to get past!
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  9. NHN
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    [Jun 13, 2009]
    When it spins of corners then fairly easily :undwech:
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  10. AuldReekie
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    AuldReekie Member

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    [Jun 13, 2009]
    Mate,

    What a pointless comparison. RWD coupe diesel against 4wd hatch petrol. Also, what is the significance of 0-40? I would assume that given the price of the cars you are considering you gave up on traffic light burn outs in your teens. :banghead:

    FWIW E92s are a fine car, great straight six engine note, all the torque you will ever need (for the traffic lights?!) and one of the finest steers you will find. Oh, and the interior is not - just different from VAG.
    #9
  11. Sohrob
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    Sohrob Member

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    [Jun 13, 2009]
    yeh of course,all rwd cars just spin!!!! 4WD has its benefits for all round driving but in the dry i would put money that the same drivers in each car and a bmw would be quicker through the bends.

    They are fantastic cars to drive and much more balanced than the Audi is.
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  12. Dandle
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    Dandle Member

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    [Jun 13, 2009]
    I must agree the 135i would be the obvious comparison. The 3 series is the competitior of the A4 not A3.
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  13. HotboxDeluxe
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    HotboxDeluxe automatic

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    [Jun 13, 2009]
    135i does 400bhp with a few mods as well.
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  14. AuldReekie
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    AuldReekie Member

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    [Jun 13, 2009]
    TBH Dandle I mean the whole comparison in general is pointless. I'm not a fan of 0-60 (or 40) comparisons as it means all in the real world and just smacks of boy racer. The fact the the OP is talking about "remapped" variants is even more strange...remapped to what level? (rhetorical).

    But, you are right that the 135 is a more appropriate comparison.

    I just wish some of the Audi lovers on this site would take their rose tinted ones of once and a while and try and be objective. It would be interesting to know how many of the BMW haters have actually owned one of the E90 series, or any other BMW for that matter.

    I love cars, end of. (Well, maybe not Kias).
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  15. NHN
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    [Jun 13, 2009]
    It was a joke, lighten up.

    To further add we live in the UK not the desert so its not dry that much is it, so for me 4wd is better overall.
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  16. NHN
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    [Jun 13, 2009]
    In your opinion of course, not everyone else's

    IMHO & its personal opinions here not my word rules, there current interiors are actually very ****, got nothing to do with cause its different from VAG, every interiors different from another, but just most BMW ones are just plain ugly atm.

    Fact is audi interiors are actually very good over most others, nothing to do with brand hugging even though be nice to see something slightly different from audi these days, but still way ahead of others, pity there tech sometimes to slow to be added.

    But to also reply to your "VAG" comment, personally I think the VW interiors are not that good so its not a VAG thing at all.
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  17. AuldReekie
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    AuldReekie Member

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    [Jun 13, 2009]
    My bold: Of course that is my opinion, I'm not trying to speak for anyone else, mearly trying to address the imbalance that rises on ASN from time to time.

    Back to the point: ugly I can accept as a subjective opinion, but in what way are they to my mind means not fit for purpose, so maybe thats my misinterpretation. I see it that they keep you warm, dry and allow you to drive the car - pretty much the same as any other car - so how

    The VAG thing you will have to accept as a freudian slip as I meant to type Audi (as that's what we are talking about).
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  18. AuldReekie
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    AuldReekie Member

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    [Jun 13, 2009]
    You better check google again mate, thats not E90 M3 (MY09). :jester:

    [​IMG]
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  19. boggysv
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    boggysv Member

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    [Jun 13, 2009]
    excuse me, why is the steering and instrument cluster in the pic so off center? We once had a volve 850 T5 in the family, and the off center steering felt really really weird. If it's as bad as the picture puts it to be, i cant imagine it being so much of a "ultimate driving machine"

    [​IMG]
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  20. Matt
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    Matt Active Member

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    [Jun 13, 2009]
    I thought it said from 40mph onwards... which I would say is a pretty real world situation i.e. overtaking.
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  21. AuldReekie
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    AuldReekie Member

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    [Jun 13, 2009]
    10B, sorry mate if I have taken the thing somewhere that wasn't meant that way. :friends:
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  22. AuldReekie
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    AuldReekie Member

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    [Jun 13, 2009]
    Both correct (although I did read it as 0-40 :whistle2:).

    I can't wait till OP comes back.
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  23. markwiggy
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    markwiggy Third Gear

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    [Jun 13, 2009]
    I had a look at a 335d a few months back and was totally put off by the cabin.

    Back to the question, I would back the BMW, S3 may start to catch up over 100 but I as previously stated a S3 would have a real problem getting past tjhe BMW.

    Mark
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  24. NHN
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    [Jun 13, 2009]
    I also get you now, yes the window switches were tad close, but the folding mirror dial was worse, lol, thus auto system coming up
    #23
  25. The Slug
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    The Slug Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 13, 2009]
    have driven one of these, easy to get rear end out lol...horrible quality, if there is any...and very cramped inside, in every department! nice engine tho gotta be said :)
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  26. NHN
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    [Jun 13, 2009]
    no its just a **** dial & location to have it, also wish they're just made it a rocker button, but hence mod to follow, no more tarting about with the poxy dial
    #25
  27. Irnbrukid
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    Irnbrukid Member

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    [Jun 13, 2009]
    Also the handbrake arm rest setup quality design.:nyah:
    #26
  28. Irnbrukid
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    Irnbrukid Member

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    [Jun 13, 2009]
    Maybe 'spin' if i remember the forum members name correct could answer the op question.

    Think the S3 would beat it off the line (launch) but the 335d would be have a little edge from a rolling start, but a think there would be hardly anything between them so its a bit of a moot point.

    As for the interior as has been said it is all in the eye of the beholder, there may be a difference in the design but there is none in the quality, put it this way i have had 4 5 series 3 3series 1 A4 in the last 6 years guess which one had the rattles & squeaks :kissmyrings: yep you know it.
    #27
  29. pluves1
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    [Jun 14, 2009]
    I own an untouched 330d M Sport and if that can keep up with an untuned S3 (yes I have tried it!) then I would say that the 335d has a very good chance of keeping up if not surpassing a tuned S3 on the straight and narrow and in the dry.

    Whilst the BMW may not keep up in the wet, one area which it will surpass the S3 is in its braking ability. So put them on the twisty roads and I reckon you'd be hard pushed to beat the BMW. Quite simply the brakes on BMW's are renowned as being amongst the best in the industry and I can vouch for that having put them to good use over the years.

    I've owned many cars previously (not and Audi though - yet!) and I have to say the BMW interior, whilst not looking the best has certainly been the most functional. Well screwed together and a nice feel to it. I reckon BWM build the interior to last rather than wow factor. I have seen numerous threads on here regarding Audi interior cabin rattles etc. After 70,000 plus miles my BMW interior still looks (and smells) like it was new with minimal sagging on the seats (yes I am slightly on the lardy side!). Again I have seen owners on here complaining of the leather seating wearing or sagging on minimal mileage.

    The driving position of the BMW I own is nothing short of superb. I can drive 400 miles and get out of the cabin as if it were only 40 really unstressfull and no backache. Its the little detail like thumb rests on the steering wheel which other manufactures like VAG group have tried to copy and in my opinion failed dismally. The steering wheel on our Golf Pirelli looks great but, the part that you hold the most in the 10 to 2 position is the least padded making it quite uncomfortable on a long journey. I'm sure VAG dont know what thumb rests are - they just put a bump in the steering wheel cos BMW have one!

    Thats my tuppence worth and I'm really hoping the Audi interior lives up to my high expectations using the BMW interior as the benchmark. I shall let you know when I get my hands on the S3 which is expected in late July/early August.
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  30. NHN
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    [Jun 14, 2009]
    I think you've just told everyone why the S3 is the better choice, given others also have said would probably keep up with the S3 in the DRY, thats the difference the S3 will do it dry or wet so why would I buy the BMW.

    Also question, why are you getting an S3 now, out of curiosity.
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  31. pluves1
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    [Jun 14, 2009]
    To be honest I dont know which would win - and I'm not really interested in that side of it either.
    What I do know is that the BMW will outbrake the S3 at corners. So if you are talking about a wet and twisty road I reckon it would be a close run thing. The S3 might gain on grip but will lose in braking. The BMW may lose on grip and gain on braking (this is something I'm not sure about until I drive the S3 on my usual daily commute). Tyres play a large part in the grip and handling game as well so the BMW is trying to put the power down on fatter tyres.

    The reason I am getting an S3 is that a BMW 335d is too expensive! I set myself a budget and tried to choose a car that would suit what I needed for my daily commute. So it needed

    1. x bhp based on the fact that I didnt want less power than I had now.

    2. Good residuals as I was using my own cash.

    3. 5 Doors as we have a child and for practicality.

    4. Could seat 5 people for short journeys and 4 for long comfortably.

    5. The most important factor was that it didnt look like all the other cars on the road.

    I originally went for the BMW due to the mileage and the fact that I was leasing and would retain for three years. I usually change cars every two years so this was the first time I was 'forced' to retain for 3. I am now bored of the Beemer - dont get me wrong its a great car and soaks up the miles. Even though you dont see many Touring on the roads it still a little boring.

    I also made the decision (one which I may regret!) of moving from Diesel back to petrol despite the fact I do nearly 25000 miles a year. This was based on the fact that BMW's are the best diesel engines in my opinion and nothing else was worthy of contention. BMW's are also expensive for what you get and are usually lacking in gadgets in and options. So for less than BMW money I could spec a nice petrol hot hatch with all the creature comforts I need. I also factored in the fuel consumption and even though my fuel bill will go up I reckon the S3 will still cost me a lost less than a BMW 330d would.

    The proof will be in the pudding and whilst I'm looking forward to the S3 I am also nervous of moving to a brand which I haven't used before. So I'm hoping it will be an enjoyable experience.
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  32. pluves1
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    [Jun 14, 2009]
    10 blazin take your point on it looking bland. If I get no rattles or squeaks on the Audi then I will have to concede its as well put together or better.

    With regard fuel costs I meant that overall running costs including purchasing the car will be cheaper for the S3 rather than the BMW due to its higher purchase cost and lack of options. I didnt make the point well but, I am factoring in all costs including fuel and running for 2 years I reckon the S3 will hopefully be a lot cheaper.

    There is no doubt the S3 will have me on first name terms with the girls at the garage. The BMW was getting nearly 500 miles off a £60 fill up. I think I'll be lucky to get 300 in the S3!
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  33. Sohrob
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    [Jun 14, 2009]
    BMW brakes are the weak link across the range, e46 m3 (****) m5/m6 (****) and pretty much most of the performance range over tha last few years.

    The 135i is the exception as that uses a 6 pot brembo caliper.
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  34. Dandle
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    Dandle Member

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    [Jun 14, 2009]
    Its all a matter how people pick up/percieve these things. Ive been on forums where people say that their 100k mile plus Mondeo has no squeaks ro rattles. Yet every time ive been in a mondeo they seem to be falling to bits. Your A3 while I had it went back for rattles several times as well as other things and although they would fix it short term the rattles always came back.
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  35. pluves1
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    pluves1 Active Member

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    [Jun 14, 2009]
    I'm not so sure for everyday road use (not track use).

    BMW and Mercedes are renowned for their good 'standard' brakes.

    I can only speak of my experience with the BMW I currently drive and have to say it has the best brakes of any car I have driven.
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  36. N8
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    N8 Kowalski Details VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 14, 2009]
    I love how subjects go so off the boil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I haven't been in a 335 let alone a mapped one, I should imagine it would win. I have driven a mapped S3, quick car.
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  37. nicks3
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    [Jun 15, 2009]
    I have just sold my DMS 335d (345bhp) and I can say it was VERY fast, the torque was amazing. However when I drive the standard Stronic S3 I was suprised how fast it was as i was expecting it to feel slow after the mapped 335d. From my own perspective I would imagine the mapped S3 to be faster than the 335d mapped. Also the S3 can be driven hard all of the time if you want whereas you need to be careful in a mapped 335d in the wet. My S3 Stronic comes in September!
    #36
  38. pluves1
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    pluves1 Active Member

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    [Jun 15, 2009]
    Ah someone else coming from the dark side!

    I'm hoping the S3 I've ordered is going to live up to my expectations - fingers crossed!

    What spec did you go for?
    #37
  39. Spin140
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    Spin140 Active Member

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    [Jun 15, 2009]
    Crikey some more BM bashing no there's a surprise on ASN ?!?

    Back to the original question, I have both cars, my wife now uses the 335d coupe on a daily basis and I use it whenever it takes my fancy or if attending a BMW track day, both cars are remapped with slight handling mods.

    The 335 was actually remapped by Evolve who are a cracking company offering decent products and a well reputed RR, the S3 runs GIAC software etc.

    It's a very difficult question to answer without timing gear as the cars produce there power in different ways, the 335d is an absolute animal with amazing shove but is also very well refined so it can be decieving until you glance at the speedo. On wet roads the S3 would be the weapon of chioce but thats not to say there is any issue whatsoever with the E92's handling, it is safe and very predictable and the balance and steering feel excellent, on a dry day I don't believe you would be getting past the 335d and I'd hasten to add the 335d driver would be having more fun. I'm not knocking the S3 they are just very different cars if I was not fortunate enough to have both cars in the family and had to choose only one I'm pretty confident I'd choose the 335d as it has so much presence and just looks and feels like a car from the class above, sorry if offended but just my opinion.

    350bhp, over 500lb of torque continually available from 1700rpm to 5,000, 39 mpg - 0-60 5.3 secs, great figures in comparison to the S3 the only real negative for me was the lack of a manual gearbox which I greatly prefer.

    On the subject of interiors how many of you guys that have expressed a negative opinion have actually spent any length of time ina 3 series coupe with lthr etc ? The Audi has the edge for tactile materials but the layout in the coupe if spot on, quality not an issue and no rattles, squeaks or problems in 12 months/20,000 miles to date.

    Open your eyes Guys there are loads of good offerings from other brands.
    #38
  40. Irnbrukid
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    Irnbrukid Member

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    [Jun 15, 2009]
    the word might fly and pigs come to mind. :kissmyrings:
    #39
  41. nicks3
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    [Jun 15, 2009]
    I would never slate the 335d as it is an awesome car (no doubt many people will think I am crazy going for the S3 after a 335d). My wife has the same engine (remapped of course) in her X5 3.0sd and that surprises many people!!

    Regarding the interiors I personally think the quality of BMW and Audi are on a par, I certainly liked my 335's.

    I had the 335d for nearly 3 years and after owning 2 x S3's in the past I fancied trying the new one with Stronic for a change of car style.
    #40

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