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Which TDi is best?

Discussion in 'Audi S4/A4/A4 Cab (B7 Chassis)' started by JudderMan, Apr 10, 2014.

  1. JudderMan
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    JudderMan Active Member

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    [Apr 10, 2014]
    Tempted to get an A4, was wondering what the pros and cons are on the 2.7 or 3l diesel?

    Thought I'd ask the experts :)
    #1
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  3. joinerman
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    joinerman Active Member

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    [Apr 10, 2014]
    I'm probably biased, 3.0 litre all day long, smooth effortless omphhh, the dogs danglies

    Oh and where do I recognise that username from ? Very familiar but memory not what it was
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  4. JudderMan
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    JudderMan Active Member

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    [Apr 10, 2014]
    Cheers buddy that's what I'm thinking too. They map well too from what I'm seeing. I want a black manual one...which ie proving difficult to find at the moment.
    #3
  5. joinerman
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    joinerman Active Member

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    [Apr 10, 2014]
    Bit like rocking horse poo
    #4
  6. scotty76
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    scotty76 Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 10, 2014]
    I'd have the 3.0 any day. No personal experience but I really fail to see the point of the 2.7 (sorry if you have one).
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  7. a6_chris
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    a6_chris Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 10, 2014]
    Just remember if any aspect of the V6 diesel goes wrong, it goes wrong in style.

    07+ was the year they sorted things with new parts revisions and less susceptible to go wrong in the long run. Also any engine which has been serviced on longlife servicing will experience timing chain issues at around 100k.
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  8. DieselJake
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    DieselJake God Mode

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  9. Gravelcar
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    Gravelcar Member

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    [Apr 10, 2014]
    Okay, not strictly answering your question but sticking my nose in here and Jake don't get offended but could a 3.0 stock with a well sorted, mapped, RARB'd 2.0 170 through twisty stuff?
    #8
  10. B5NUT
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    B5NUT Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 10, 2014]
    I would say it would, it's got more power, more torque, bigger brakes, better gearbox and quattro as standard.

    The 3.0 TDi is a cracking engine, even the old ones are good as look as they are well serviced. It also makes a nice sound for a derv when you put your foot down.
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  11. DieselJake
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    DieselJake God Mode

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    [Apr 10, 2014]
    Yes would probably **** all over it, generally more reliable too. If we're talking performance modifications the 3.0 would be much better base, plus they all come with quattro. MPG would be a little worse but with a mapped 2.0tdi it would probably be ragged and return rubbish economy too. Could go 2.0tdi with a bigger turbo, injectors, intercooler, map, dpf delete, cat delete, bigger exhaust, shocks, springs, rarb, performance clutch, bigger brakes but would be much better off starting 3.0tdi quattro getting rid of exhaust restrictions and having a map.

    All from someone with the majority of mods stated for the 2.0tdi on his 1.9tdi engine just to prove there's no bias in this statement haha.
    #10
  12. desertstorm
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    desertstorm Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 11, 2014]
    If you can get a 3.0 B8 they are pretty much sorted.
    Earlier 3.0 engine cars had issues with injectors and other small problems. The 3.0 is quattro only, which is for a good reason, the torque and power requires that and even more so if you have it mapped.
    The B8 3.0 manual addresses the issues of previous cars with regards to the clutch. As standard it runs a 228mm dual plate clutch so has no issues when the engine is tuned. Will do 700Nm with no issues, Thats over 500Lb/ft of torque.
    Mine had had the DPF removed and is mapped and is running around the 300bhp mark. A great drive and it doesn't hang around. Very difficult to tell that you are in a diesel.

    Fifth Gear - VW Passat R36 vs. Audi 3.0 TDI - YouTube
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  13. V6 Quatt
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    V6 Quatt Active Member

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    [Apr 11, 2014]
    Second that. 3.0 is a powerhouse great economy too. I have had both 2.0TDI and now 3.0tdi Non DPF 233bhp
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  14. lynallbel
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    lynallbel Active Member

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    [Apr 11, 2014]

    Thats a good video, wonder how they compare on economy, I would hazard a guess the audi can almost do double what the vw can?
    #13
  15. jdp1962
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    jdp1962 Grumpy Old Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 11, 2014]
    3.0TDi combined with ZF tiptronic auto box and quattro is a glorious combination. Smooth, seamless, relentless. No matter how good a 4-cylinder engine might be, it can never get near the mechanical refinement of a six.

    Reliability and tuning potential have been covered in earlier posts.
    #14
  16. jjmurphy21187
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    jjmurphy21187 Tiptronic

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    [Apr 11, 2014]
    The 2.7 comes in 2WD and gets better MPG (high 40's rather than high 30's on a motorway run), also they are quite rare in the B7 so I understand.

    If economy isn't your primary concern, forget the 2.0tdi. If you're happy with 30mpg average, get the 3.0tdi. If you want a good combo of the smooth V6 and economy (and you can find oue) consider the 2.7. Why not test drive one of each and see how they compare? Make sure neither have been mapped though, as this will skew your opinion!

    I have a 3.0tdi (auto), mapped, DPF'd, EGR's, RARB'd, with 134,000 miles, never given me any problems and sailed through each MOT (3 I've had since owning it) with no advisories. Can't recommend it highly enough.
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2014
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  17. Gravelcar
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    Gravelcar Member

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    [Apr 11, 2014]
    Some passionate 3.0 fans out there!!

    I should have caveated my post by saying I've not driven a 3.0 mapp'd or not.....I guess I was just thinking of how well mine goes through the forest (it's natural habitat - I live near the Forest of Dean) and the other thing would be the weight out over the front axle of the V6 (Parkers has them as 150kg heavier) - maybe it would have the legs on the straights but through the twisties??????? Not sure.....I don't mind being doubted though!!!!
    #16
  18. jjmurphy21187
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    jjmurphy21187 Tiptronic

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    [Apr 11, 2014]
    Twisty and turny wise, it's a front-heavy car so it won't feel as nimble as a 2.0TFSI (for instance). But the power and delivery of the 3.0tdi will definately put a smile on your face :racer:

    If you get one and want to make it as it should have been from the factory:

    Remove DPF
    Disable EGR
    Stage 1 remap
    RS4 RARB

    and personally I'd recommend some spacers as I felt mine held the road better with them fitted (ET33 vs ET43 OEM)

    Unless you've previously owned an S4 or S3 (or any RS-), you will have no complaints!

    What you really need is a generous someone with the above mods to take you for a spin on your local roads....
    #17
  19. Gravelcar
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    Gravelcar Member

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    [Apr 11, 2014]
    That is a very good point.......I'll wait for generous offers!!!!
    #18
  20. lynallbel
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    lynallbel Active Member

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    [Apr 11, 2014]
    Do a google search for engine reliability to get some idea of the whole audi range, none are perfect but the 1.9tdi and 3.0tdi are somewhere near.
    Bloke at work was telling me his boys 2009 2ltr petrol bmw has spun crank shells and needs new engine 8k!
    #19
  21. dt-tdi
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    dt-tdi Member VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 12, 2014]
    I've had my low miler (39k) 2006 3.0tdi auto b7 for around 3 months now.
    At the time I couldn't stretch my funds for a b8 but I have to say I'm more than happy with the b7.
    Did a bit of research like your doing and the 3.0 ticks all the boxes: smooth, effortless grunt and still returns good mpg.
    Had mine re-mapped by superchips with their Blue Fin product and the difference is phenomenal! an increase of around 48hp and an extra 111lb of torque!
    Thinking of removing the dpf and disengaging the egr but am unclear of the advantages and disadvantages of doing this at the mo?
    Any comments on this would be really helpful please.
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  22. Stevieb2905
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    Stevieb2905 Active Member

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    [Apr 12, 2014]
    Another vote for 3.0, mine has the Shark map and it is pretty quick, had mapped scoobies before and it is not that much slower. IMO a map is bordering on essential, the improved torque is very noticeable and midrange pickup a lot sharper. I think it is more of cruiser than a racer though, the engine does feel heavy when cornering, but I've no suspension mods.
    I know you are after a manual but I would recommend test driving the auto as well, this is my first auto (used to hate them with a passion) and I really like the tiptronic box.

    I'm also thinking about the egr/dpf mod but still a bit uncertain with potential changes to mot rules.
    #21
  23. lynallbel
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    lynallbel Active Member

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    [Apr 12, 2014]
    I would be amazed if the tester could even see the dpf on the 3.0 never mind get to it.
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  24. B5NUT
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    B5NUT Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 12, 2014]
    Just to make one more point about the best TDi engine it's not 3.0, its the 4.2 TDi in the A8/Q7, shame they don't offer it in the A4/A6, it would make for one hell of a car. TDi RS range.......
    #23
  25. DieselJake
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    DieselJake God Mode

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    [Apr 13, 2014]
    Economy is absolutely terrible in those though, drove an auto A8 with one and found it hard to return more than 20mpg, to be honest power didn't seem all there either but think that was just the illusion that automatic transmission created. Oh also better suspension and tyres are key to improving the performance of bigger engines, bloody budget tyres and stock everything else on the one I was in.
    #24
  26. kanecullen89
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    kanecullen89 Active Member

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    [Apr 13, 2014]
    I think the newer 3.0 bitdi (twin turbo) would be a better bet IMO
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  27. B5NUT
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    B5NUT Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 13, 2014]
    I had a 4.2 in an A8 for over a year was getting around 30MPG and performance was no illusion, it was a very quick motor and handled very well, it was the sports version with michelin PS2 tyres. Only thing I found that the back end started to move around a fair bit when the fuel tank was almost empty but that only was that on some of the dusty / gritty roads up in Scotland.

    More tuning potential on the 3.0 but stock its the 4.2 any time.
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  28. t8ups
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    t8ups Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 13, 2014]
    I have drove both the bi tdi and the 4.2. I would say the 4.2 felt more pokey but the bi tdi was more get up and go. I have also drove the new bmw 335d and this thing would rip the Audi bi tdi to spreads.

    How about the q7 6.0 tdi? Or not forgetting the 5.0 v10 tdi?

    Very underrated.

    Trups
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  29. AudiB7Jay
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    AudiB7Jay Member

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    [Apr 15, 2014]
    I don't know anything about the 3.0l, but I've heard many people say there great.

    As for economy and reliability, any PD 1.9's are phenomenal for both. £85 to fill up on diesel nitro+ gets me just shy of 1000 miles a month and I only fill up 1x a month. But there no power house mine is the PD115 stage 1 revo pushing out 170hp with 394nm torque. It not quick but its far from slow. Great on long b road runs sits at 60 with 2k revs all day long. 70mph goes to 2200rpm.

    Hope this helps in some way.
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  30. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 15, 2014]
    Drove the 3.0TDi back to back with the 3.0V6T and to be honest it was a very close call as to which was best. The TDi spanked the V6T for economy, and the torque from the latest gen 3.0TDi engine is quite something. If I hadn't chosen to go with something slightly more revvy (and with an S badge on the back) I could have been easily swayed to the 3.0TDi Quattro. Nicest diesel I've driven in the VAG range, but like Trups says I do hear the Beemer diesels are quite a bit advanced these days.
    #29
  31. JudderMan
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    JudderMan Active Member

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    [Apr 15, 2014]
    Thanks everyone. I am still at a loss at what car to get next. I've seen many 2L, 2.7 and 3.0 diesels on eBay go for around my budget. I have never owned a diesel nor do I really really need one - but the only real reason I want one is to have an economical everyday car then I can go bonkers with a 2nd car or a bike. I don't commute but when I do use the car I either do 30 miles or 600 miles. I won't do more than 12-15k miles per year. I'm currently on around 11k per year. If my car wasn't so bloody rusty and every rubber bush seems to need replaced every 6 months, then I'd keep it. But....better the devil you know and all that. I do have a buyer for mine lined up for July, so maybe I should make the move to something newer (ish ie. 2006-7).

    I've been a passenger in an SQ5 which I think had a 3LTDi in it, which sounded like a V8, and was silly torquey (600ftlbs). My mate's previous car was a b8 S4 Avant and he traded it in for the SQ. This is the only reason why I'd go v6 diesel over a clattery 4-pot. I appreciate the 1,000 miles per £85 and the bargain hunter in me loves that, but for the mileage I do it's not really a huge issue chasing every last mpg. In my head I'd rather have a 35-40mpg petrol car and a silly turbo v6/v8 for fun.
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  32. desertstorm
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    desertstorm Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 15, 2014]
    The twin turbo 3.0 BMW diesels are indeed very nice pieces of work, However whilst BMW insist on sticking with RWD I wouldn't want to be driving a 300+ bhp RWD diesel car. Great in the dry but in slippy or wet conditions not so good. The Quattro system on the Audi is great , I can just floor mine in any weather conditions and it just grips and goes.

    Karl.
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  33. JudderMan
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    JudderMan Active Member

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    [Apr 15, 2014]
    That's where we differ. If Audi did a RWD (cheaper than an R8) then I'd be all over it like a dirty rash. 4WD just doesn't float my boat and I'm not a fan of BMWs apart from the 1M.
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  34. desertstorm
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    desertstorm Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 15, 2014]
    Saw this the other day,

    Audi RS3 vs BMW 1M Coupe drag race | Auto Express

    "The gap would have been much greater had it been raining "
    The BMW will be lighter and lower transmission losses are the reason it starts to gain but you need to get upto 100mph before the BMW starts catching the Audi.If the conditions were wet the Audi wouldn't run much different times.
    And we all know what BMW's are like in the snow :) .
    I want a car that I can use 365 days of the year and wouldn't just be a bit quicker on a track.
    The Latest quattro systems are now a 60-40 split rear to front, better than the 50-50 split that they used to have.
    Another reason I went for a B8.

    Karl.
    #33
  35. lynallbel
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    lynallbel Active Member

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    [Apr 15, 2014]
    For a couple of years around 2011 we had two mercs, up until then there was always a land rover on the drive, then the snow came! oh dear I dumped mine on the M20 and walked home, very quickly bought a back up landy.
    I have never felt that hopeless in all my years of driving, luckily only 5 miles walk, but could have been hundreds of miles away.
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