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Which one?

Discussion in 'New A3/S3 (8V Chassis)' started by ainso, Feb 20, 2014.

  1. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Hence why BMW had to launch X drive on its road cars, realising some people didn't want another winter of discontent and defecting to the marketeers dream.
    #41
  2. PilotAudi
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    PilotAudi Guest

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    I am amazed how long it has taken for BMW to catch up as well as some folks on here! ;-)

    Fwd is fine for less powerful cars but more power demands RWD or better still for road use quattro,
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2014
    #42
  3. Itguy
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    Itguy Active Member

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    I was watching YouTube videos yesterday of the m135i xdrive drag racing against the s3 - very interesting and the s3 wins every test to every speed. I was actually a little surprised but I think it's actually down to the 8 speed box in the 135 as whenever it's changing gear it just looses a tiny bit of shove and the turbo spools down a bit. The s3 with only 6 cogs just seems to pull harder for longer.
    #43
  4. Itguy
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    Itguy Active Member

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    #44
  5. Pulp84
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    Pulp84 Member

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    The ZF box is slower than S-Tronic in that video. I'm sure I've read that the ZF does interrupt power between shifts where I think the S-tronic doesn't.
    #45
  6. veeeight
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    veeeight Active Member

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    ZF 8HP is a planetary gearbox, DSG is manual gearbox with dual clutch.

    Shift times are quicker on the DSG, ZF can take up to 200ms for shifts. Primary objective for most ZF boxes is shift quality, rather than shift change speed.

    A good variant of DSG (e.g.: Veyron) can shift in 8ms. A very good race driver can shift a manual box in 500ms.
    #46
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  7. Daz Auto
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    Daz Auto Member

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    Seems like a lot of people are falling for the marketing BS.

    This Audi franchise know what they are talking about...

    Audi Northwest | Audi Service | Audi Service & MOT In Preston, Blackburn & Carlisle

    #47
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  8. h5djr
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    h5djr Active Member

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    In connection with the Haldex coupling used for the A3 quattro I just read this in the Wiki pages:

    On 16 April 2009 Haldex announced a deal to provide Volkswagen with a new AWD system for the company's new modular platform due in 2012. The GenV AWD coupling, now distributed by BorgWarner TorqTransfer Systems, features a new design aimed at reducing vehicle complexity and simplifying integration into the drivetrain. A new electro-hydraulic clutch actuator uses a centrifugal overflow valve design aimed at accurately distributing power between the front and rear axles, and eliminating the need for an accumulator, solenoid valve and filter. It also employes an integrated electronic control unit.
    #48
  9. h5djr
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    h5djr Active Member

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    A lot depends on why people are choosing to buy a car with quattro. If it's for improved performance in snow etc then they would be better off with winter tyres or winter tyres and quattro. In places like Switzerland, where the gauranteed to get snow every year, winter tyres are required by law during the winter months but also most Audi's you see are also quattros.

    If like me, they are buying it because it improves handing in corners under normal or just wet conditions then in my opinion it seems well worth it. In my case it was slightly different. I wanted a 184 with s-tronic and the only A3 Sportback with that combination just happens to be a quattro. Win win as far as I'm concerned.
    #49
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  10. steeve
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    steeve Member

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    You may think it enhances cornering but it doesn't have any impact unless front and rear wheels have a different rotational speed. Until this happens you're on front wheel drive. When it does sense a change in wheel speeds it will do its stuff within a few milliseconds.
    #50
  11. cuke2u
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    cuke2u Active Member

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    So what you are saying is that those who have Quattro have in essence a front wheel drive car with occasional rear wheel drive as well?
    #51
  12. veeeight
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    veeeight Active Member

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    Not entirely true.

    Gen 4 & 5 Haldex ECU monitors other sensors as well, one of them being throttle position, and rate of change of throttle position, as well as road speed.

    "Driver Intent" is then calculated, and will lock up the clutch pack in advance of any slip/speed differential occurring, for enthusiastic driving.

    The Gen 3 Haldex fitted to LR Freelander can lock the clutch pack at standstill so as to give 4 wheel drive from stationary, without the need for any wheel slip to activate it.


    The older generations of Haldex as fitted to previous generations of A3 & S3 did not have this feature.
    #52
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  13. h5djr
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    h5djr Active Member

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    The Haldex coupling splits the drive partly to the rear if the front wheels loose grip at all, thus making the car more stable. The Haldex coupling is now made by Borg-Warner and this is there description of the latest version designed for the VW MQB platform:

    The Haldex GenerationV is the latest innovation in electro-hydraulic clutch control for ultimate all-wheel drive performance. The system automatically distributes power between the front and rear wheels for optimum vehicle traction and handling. The latest generation provides cost and weight reduction while maintaining its legendary preemptive performance.
    #53
  14. veeeight
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    veeeight Active Member

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    ^No Dave, read my post #52 above.
    There is more to it.
    #54
  15. PilotAudi
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    PilotAudi Guest

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    Thanks vee8. I think your post is of far more interest than recycled Audi HQ propaganda !

    As posted elsewhere it seems odd that the benefit of quattro seems to have taken many. 'Enthusiasts' a long time to cotton on to. ;-)
    #55
  16. veeeight
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    veeeight Active Member

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    Well, there are pros and cons of every system!

    Additional weight, plus driveline losses, and more noise etc. are some of the downsides :)
    #56
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