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Which one?

Discussion in 'New A3/S3 (8V Chassis)' started by ainso, Feb 20, 2014.

  1. ainso

    ainso New Member

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    Finally talked the other half round but now I can't make my mind up between the 1.8tsfi Quattro or the 184 diesel Quattro.Been on a few broker sites about 2.5grand off,maybe go down the front wheel route and save
    even more? Any advice please.thank you
     
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  3. h5djr

    h5djr Well-Known Member
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    What sort of mileage do you do.
     
  4. steeve

    steeve Well-Known Member

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    I cant speak about the TFSI, but I did spend quite some time in both the Quattro and front wheel drive i84 diesel. This is my opinion only, I'm not suggesting any right or wrong. But for me I preferred the front wheel drive manual. I found the car better balanced and when I drove them back to back I could easily spot the weight difference. I found the lighter car better balanced and noticeably quicker. But its your choice and every one has their own opinions and these were mine.

    So go try both and see how you feel.
     
  5. PilotAudi

    PilotAudi New Member

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    For those of us who have had several quattro there is no choice . quattro makes a good car great. Secure, planted, handling oh I do go on ;-)
     
  6. h5djr

    h5djr Well-Known Member
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    For me the choice was very easy. I wanted a 2.0TDI and I wanted an s-tronic and similar performance to my current 170. The 2.0TDI-150 did not give me that so it meant it had to be the 184. The only one with 184 and s-tronic is also quattro. When I test drove the 184 s-tronic quattro if just felt so much more secure when cornering that my current 170 front-wheel drive I was amazed having never driven a quattro before. I've not driven a 184 manual 'non-quattro' as one of my very basic requirements was, it had to be s-tronic.
     
  7. PilotAudi

    PilotAudi New Member

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    If Audi did a manual quattro diesel 184 ( or more) we would have probably had one. Sadly they don't. Despite the popularity of the 8p 170 version. Hence we have reorganised the family fleet to buy the S3... ;-(
     
  8. steeve

    steeve Well-Known Member

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    Not many race cars are four wheel drive? Great off road or on the slippery stuff but unless the Quattro fitted to the A3 measures different wheel speeds between front and rear it is generally front wheel drive...........................

    If I had to go out in all weathers I'd pick the four wheel drive, seeing as I don't and as I mentioned having driven both, the 2wd on the road was a quicker car even round corners. I've had many Quattro cars, S versions too, so it's not as if I haven't tried both. I would prefer something with the power output of the S3 with Quattro.

    There's absolutely no doubt that Quattro has benefits but for the gentleman in question he may not benefit greatly particularly if cost is an issue, but it's his choice not mine, so my recommendation to him is try both and make his own mind up.
     
  9. h5djr

    h5djr Well-Known Member
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    I agree, the only way the OP is going to know is to try both Front-wheel drive and quattro versions assuming he is happy with manual or s-tronic.
     
  10. PilotAudi

    PilotAudi New Member

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    I am not being flippant but if cost is a problem that is the problem ! Our 170 quattro. ( wife's car) was superb but the fwd version we had for 3 months prior to its late arrival (thanks Audi ) was 5h17e ... Nasty horrible seats , scrambling front wheels.. Anything with high levels of torque benefits from AWD or RWD. It's personal choice and personal finances and I understand that. I would have a. 3 year old quattro rather than a new Fwd. My 42p
     
  11. ainso

    ainso New Member

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    Thank you all for the quick replys.i have a a6 Quattro at the moment so thought I would go the Quattro route with the a3.I think I will have to drive both but the dealers round here don't have much choice.Thank you all once again.
     
  12. ainso

    ainso New Member

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    About 9/10000 a year
     
  13. h5djr

    h5djr Well-Known Member
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    Where are you?
     
  14. ainso

    ainso New Member

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    Blackburn lancs.
     
  15. squiretolley

    squiretolley Active Member

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    I struggle to get the power down in my FWD 150ps even before I added the tuning box taking it up to 200ps. I personally will be looking at a quattro s-tronic in future, hopefully the S3 saloon!
     
  16. h5djr

    h5djr Well-Known Member
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    I only asked because I'm in Cambridgeshire and there is at least one dealer around here with a 2.0TDI-184 s-tronic quattro. I found the best way to find if dealers have one is to look on the Audi UK used-car search and see if any are going to be available on a certain date in the future. If there are it usually means they are currently a demonstrator.
     
  17. h5djr

    h5djr Well-Known Member
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    I don't have any problem with my 170 for normal day-to-day driving but the quattro was so much better for when I go out purely to drive for fun through the lanes.
     
  18. Mjs

    Mjs New Member

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    I've owned a A4 Quattro 190bhp before and loved it. Quattro is immense, and if I had a choice I'd spec it. Unfortunately, my new car is a company one, so in order to keep tax liability down I've had to have a manual fwd, but if it was my own car, it would definitely be a Quattro.
     
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  19. snakehips

    snakehips Well-Known Member

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    Deciding between the 1.8TFSI and the 184 diesel can be influenced to an extent by annual mileage and you are close to the crossover point where value for money switches from one to the other. But that was never a consideration for me.
    I was very tempted by the 1.8 a year ago but I didn't like the 7 speed S-tronic gearbox or the general feel of the engine so I held out for the 184. IMO it's a better performer and just a better all round proposition. Drive both and see what you think.
     
  20. snowfree52

    snowfree52 Full LED baby !

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    Remember 4WD is banned from a lot of motorsport serie :bye:

    Even in F1 :
    9.1 Transmission types :
    "No transmission system may permit more than two wheels to be driven."


    there aren't many FWD race cars either also
     
    #19 snowfree52, Feb 20, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2014
  21. Pulp84

    Pulp84 Well-Known Member

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    The 184 Quattro in my opinion is one of the best all round cars you can buy for the following reasons:

    - Quick while being economical
    - Will certainly have a much wider appeal on the used market than the 1.8 TFSI
    - Quattro grip / all weather use
    - very refined and quiet.

    Would be my car of choice if I wasn't getting an S3 and needed something a bit cheaper to run. Have not driven a car in ALONG time that impressed me as much as the 184.
     
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  23. Rexus

    Rexus Active Member

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    Yeah, strange though that the S3 has 120bhp more, with Quattro of course, yet is only 2mpg worse than the 184 Quattro.
     
  24. kanecullen89

    kanecullen89 Active Member

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    My old 8P 2.0 tdi 140 used to struggle all the time for traction. Especially in the wet/greasy conditions. And that was with good tires!
    I have quattro now on my B8 and I wouldn't go back to fwd if I could avoid it
     
  25. cuke2u

    cuke2u Well-Known Member

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    Funny as I've front wheel driven cars with more horsepower and torque and not one of them struggled for traction if driven properly. Thing is if quattro is right for you then go for it but, really, we survive quite well without it...
     
  26. Daz Auto

    Daz Auto Active Member

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    ... this is a fallacy. Quattro has better traction. Stopping distances will be exactly the same.

    Winter tyres would be safer for driving in poor weather. I have yet to see any videos or articles that suggest otherwise.
     
  27. PilotAudi

    PilotAudi New Member

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    Winter tyres + quattro is best!!
     
  28. squiretolley

    squiretolley Active Member

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    I'll probably invest in a set of winter tyres later this year. What's wear like compared to summer tyres?
     
  29. h5djr

    h5djr Well-Known Member
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    I've manage quite well with 170 front-wheel drive for my last three A3. No problems with traction as such. A lot depends how you drive and for me for normal day-to-day driving FWD is fine. But when I had a test drive in a 184 stronic quattro and did some 'fun' driving through the lanes I really noticed a difference. The car had much more grip through corners especially where the road was damp. It was not until I wanted the same as my 170 which Audi no longer produce that I tried the 184. As s-tronic is a must for me I had to try the 184 s-tronic quattro than I became aware of the extra grip offered.
     
  30. cuke2u

    cuke2u Well-Known Member

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    As I've stated, never had any issues myself. Perhaps I drive in a manner more suited towards the road conditions, smooth with no jerky movements with the steering, throttle and clutch. Strange though, in this thread, Quattro owners are complaining about how bad the traction is http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/new-a3-s3-8v-chassis/210363-s3-continentals.html perhaps tyres have more of a bearing than Quattro.

    I think we all know the benefits that four wheel drive can bring, but to suggest front wheel drive cars with higher torque output struggle to have any traction at all is a tad OTT to justify having Quattro...
     
    #28 cuke2u, Feb 21, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2014
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  31. PilotAudi

    PilotAudi New Member

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    I beg to disagree... The most powerful FWD car we had was a 2001 Saab 9-5 Aero, cracking motor, 240bhp but just read the review (lightly edited) below.

    In the real world ... performance figures are irrelevant.... because the front-wheel-drive 9-5 struggles for grip on anything other than a straight, flat road. When there is traction, the Aero's pace is impressive, but most of the time the power is uselessly spun away. Accelerate with any amount of steering lock applied, and there's plenty of torque steer.....

    Despite adjustments to the steering and the chassis, the poor dynamic ability is emphasised even further by the lack of feedback through the wheel. One thing is certain - this Saab is better suited to motorway cruising than tackling a tight and twisty B-road.

    Read more: Saab 9-5 | Auto Express



    Having driven many more modern FWD cars with powerful engines (ish) 204 A7 FWD 211 A5 FWD and various A6's I am not convinced they are much/any better today than 2001!
     
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  32. Pulp84

    Pulp84 Well-Known Member

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    Well maybe you can argue the point with Audi's marketing department as they think differently. Below is lifted from email I got today regarding new S1.

    S1 will be launched in the UK in May.

    With a 2.0 TFSI, 231PS engine that will take you from 0-62mph in just 5.8 seconds*, the new S1 offers refined power to bring you high performance driving at its best.

    Available in 3-door and Sportback, it's the first time a model in this class comes with quattro all-wheel-drive as standard. With superior traction, impeccable cornering, and evenly distributed power for greater grip whatever the weather, quattro offers a highly responsive and exhilarating drive.
     
  33. cemerson

    cemerson Well-Known Member

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    Nothing from that text disagrees with Daz Auto...
     
  34. Daz Auto

    Daz Auto Active Member

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    I honestly think that the words 'greater grip' and quattro do not belong in the same sentence. No point in talking to Audi marketing as they want to perpetuate this fallacy, in the interest of selling more quattros and enhancing the Audi brand. Though every time I see one of the quattro ads, I seriously thinking about emailing a complaint to advertising standards. I wonder could I get those misleading Quattro ads taken of the air?
     
  35. h5djr

    h5djr Well-Known Member
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    Strange because the 2.0TDI-184 s-tronic quattro demonstrator I drove definitely had 'greater grip' going round the corners on a damp road surface on one of my normal 'fun' routes than my current 2.0TDI-170 s-tronic front-wheel drive car or was that just down to it's 'superior' conti tyres. I don't think so.
     
  36. Daz Auto

    Daz Auto Active Member

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    Compared with the old car - the perceived improvement in cornering could be a combination of several things... MBQ chassis, better ESP, tyres.

    A few of the reviews I have read about the new GTD mention how much better it feels in the corners compared to the old GTD I drive.

    I find it interesting that some people also consider the heavier diesel to feel more secure on the road than the lighter petrol models. The quattro adds another 100kg.
     
  37. h5djr

    h5djr Well-Known Member
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    But the new 150s I drove did not feel that much better that my current 170. It was only when I tried a quattro than I noticed how much better it was.
     
  38. warren_S5

    warren_S5 Moderator
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    It's a debate that could rage on forever, just like petrol vs diesel, DSG vs manual, V6 vs V8 (in the S4/S5 domain this creates huge friction).

    Just as the OP can only decide what is best for them, the same is true of all of us. Neither of any of the above is 'best' it's just what suits our needs, egos (or shortcomings!).

    In my mind Quattro / Haldex has some shortcomings, it's over-engineered against the systems in the Evo (for example) making the whole car heavier and increasing drive train losses. Audi's tend to be naturally nose heavy and lack a bit of front end feel, so depending on your driving skills it could either be a benefit or a hinderence to add Quattro to the mix.

    Having had two on the bounce with Haldex I've grown to love it. In the depths of winter it's kept me going when others have given up (even on just legal summer 19's), and there have been times (Castle Combe 2008 - S4 dumped oil in braking zone on start finish straight), where it got me out of jail for free.

    However on the new car I've added sports diff to the mix to help tuck the lardy S5 into the corners tight, and having tested it on a demo car it's ruthlessly effective. It makes the S5 disarmingly agile, and with that much power/weight on board it makes sense.

    Audi didn't start winning rallies in the 1980's because Quattro was ****, it's just a different method of cracking a nut.
     
  39. Pulp84

    Pulp84 Well-Known Member

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    Well I think my comment around all weather use was not agreed with. The Audi S1 text suggests to me that it has superior all weather use. Daz Auto is quite correct as the marketing suggests it can do all things - quite a throw away comment from Audi "whatever the weather" - again suggests to me as a potential buyer it can handle anything. Daz Auto is correct, I wouldn't want to purely rely on Quattro in the worst winter weather. I'd feel better with Quattro and winter tyres. Think the advertising is a bit mis-leading.

    But think most of us agree the OP would get many benefits from Quattro?
     
  40. cemerson

    cemerson Well-Known Member

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    Oh yes, Quattro is better than FWD in worse weather without a doubt. But that's nothing to do with 'grip', which is entirely down to the tyres, and nothing to do with whether a wheel is driven or not - which I think was his point.
     
  41. Daz Auto

    Daz Auto Active Member

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    Clever marketing people. They don't actually state anything here that can be challenged. They just imply...

     
    #39 Daz Auto, Feb 21, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 15, 2014
  42. Pulp84

    Pulp84 Well-Known Member

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    They are clever with this marketing stuff - many people buy Audi purely for the Quattro element I'm sure.
     

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