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Which one to go for?

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by New Age Driver, Feb 24, 2008.

  1. New Age Driver
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    New Age Driver Member

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    [Feb 25, 2008]
    Oh ok. My bad. With regards to the 1.4 T FSI, has it only just come out and that's why there is a lack of second had ones around?

    What would the insurance be like on the 1.4 T FSI? I hear it's meant to escape the congestion charge and is environmentally friendly, if a car can be that, that is.
    #41
  2. AudiLad
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    AudiLad Member

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    [Feb 25, 2008]
    dont know much about this engine,but i cant see the insurance being cheap on it with it being a turbo,insurance companys hate the word lol,why dont u just go on some insurance companys websites and get quotes thats all ive ever done when changing my car and looking for insurance:)
    #42
  3. New Age Driver
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    New Age Driver Member

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    [Feb 25, 2008]
    The thing is, no insurance company, has the 1.4 T FSI on their list of models..
    #43
  4. PNH80
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    PNH80 Low life livin' the high life.

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    [Feb 26, 2008]
    Everyone here is offering very sound advice. First off, don't buy a brand new car. I think some one advised trying to get hold of an ex demo... Good move. I've just picked up an 07 2.0T Quattro S-line. 7 months old 6.5K on the clock, nice selection of extras. Always been an Audi car so i'm the 1st owner. List price is £27 and i've paid just over £19K taking everything into account which i'm happy with. It's a good way to get a 'new' car at a good price.
    If you're 19, i can't help but think you'd be happier with a lighter, more involving car. Golfs are probably more of a fun drivers car than A3's. My 2.0T A3 is quite a different drive to my mates GTI with the same engine. The golf feels more nimble and basically more of a sports car....which i expected. The A3 feels more of a solid, quality package aimed at a more 'executive' buyer. Just my opinion.

    All i'd say is DON'T buy brand new if thats the spec you're going for, do your research and listen to the advice of people who have owned these cars who aren't salesmen.

    Good luck.

    Paul.
    #44
  5. New Age Driver
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    New Age Driver Member

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    [Feb 26, 2008]
    Are there any sites for ex-demo cars or is it just a case of going to the dealer and asking them?

    I would love a 1.6 Sport but they are quite a bit more expensive. I've tried to find one for a suitable price but to no avail. I haven't set my heart on one yet.

    The SE is the same as Special Edition, is it not? Why have they abbreviated it?
    #45
  6. AudiLad
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    AudiLad Member

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    [Feb 26, 2008]
    Its just a case of going down to the dealers and them having a demo for you,to be honest tho i cant see audi having any 1.6 A3 demo's because there not very popular and there isnt a very big market for them,you dont see many on the road really,you may be lucky and they may have one,If you cant afford an A3 with a more powerful and practical engine,i would look else were mate,you will only be dissapointed,the fiat grande punto is a nice lookin car IMO thats just an example,cheaper insuramce for certain
    #46
  7. PeterS
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    PeterS Member

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    [Feb 26, 2008]
    I'm sure all dealers will have either a demo or used 1.6 for you to try; a quick search on the audi.co.uk used car locator for A3s less than a year old with a 1.6 engine currently shows 138 available!!

    I think we forget that we (people who 'enjoy' cars, join forums to discuss them etc) are not very representative of the car buying public. Most people on here probably class themselves as car enthusiasts in some way shape or form, and so tend to buy the larger engined/sportier models; the fact that there are very few 1.6 drivers on here is more down to the profile of the average forum member than the fact they don't sell I'd have thought...

    Most people (non car enthusiasts) are really not that bothered; cost/practicality/image are what it comes down to I think. That's why my partner has the 1.6 A3 - performance was not really an issue. For me it is more important, and my choice of engine reflects that

    Just my thoughts...

    Peter
    #47
  8. PeterS
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    PeterS Member

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    [Feb 26, 2008]
    No, confusingly it's not. SE stands for Special Equipment I think. SE trim is £2,000 more than a 'base' model and comes with climate control, 17" alloys and a load of comfort orientated features (cruise, front arm rest, interior light pack, auto lights/wipers/dimming rvm etc)

    The Special Edition is effectively a base model with standard air con (not climate control) but for £500 less than the 'base' model. This is easily available in 3 door form with no options for around £13,500 from most brokers

    The difference in new list price between the 2 is therefore £2,500...not such good value for money IMO

    Peter
    #48
  9. mister.c.
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    mister.c. Member

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    [Feb 26, 2008]
    That's got to be wrong.
    http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/...l cars to escape congestion charge/article.do

    To escape the charge you have to emit below 120CO2. The 1.4 TFSI is well over that - in the A3 Sportback brochure for 2007 it says 154CO2.
    #49
  10. PeterS
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    PeterS Member

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    [Feb 26, 2008]
    #50
  11. mister.c.
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    mister.c. Member

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    [Feb 26, 2008]
    Some great advice given. As much as what we say is great, only you know what will suit you & some real world experience of the potential purchases will enlighten you specifically, more than we can. PNH is spot on - get a nearly new one; some 57 plate bargains should be achievable with the 08 plates from Saturday onwards.

    My two pence worth - I wouldn't touch the 1.6 engine - neither would my sister in law after she drove one - she cares little for speed but a 1.9 diesel was much better (for her than the 1.6, with her needs). This differs from Peter S's partner. I know its obvious but neither Peter's partner or my sister in law are you.

    Enjoy the journey to finding what suits your needs best (and keep us informed!) :thumbsup:
    #51
  12. mister.c.
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    mister.c. Member

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    [Feb 26, 2008]
    #52
  13. New Age Driver
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    New Age Driver Member

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    [Feb 26, 2008]
    Ah I see. I was wondering that, really had me stumped. You've helped me a great deal with that. There was me thinking they were the same. So, SE, is definitely the one I want, preferably.
    #53
  14. New Age Driver
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    New Age Driver Member

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    [Feb 26, 2008]
    Haha..well, before coming on here, I thought the 1.6 was the bee's knees, but since being on here, I've been peppered with doubt (all you car buffs). And, if your Sister in law, who doesn't care much for speed, had her doubts over the 1.6 then that has really got me worried. I only wish that the 1.9 was cheaper, all the ones I've seen are in the 17/18 grand mark. I mean I test drove a 1.6 but I was with the sales guy so you can't really put your foot on the pedal and test it out.
    #54
  15. mister.c.
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    mister.c. Member

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    [Feb 27, 2008]
    I hope thats just a figure of speech - no need to be really worried!

    She had the choice between a 1.6 and 1.9 in her budget range. She drove both and the benefits of the torque of the 1.9 easily sold it to her - it was nippy compared to the 1.6.

    Bear in mind you never pay what the price is being advertised at (for an A3!) - my understanding from friends, people on here (and Auto Express which has an aim to pay price, provided by drive the deal) is that for a new A3 of the type you are looking at, you should be able to get £1500 off new. Clearly they wont give you that straight away but it is most definitely possible. And then more off the list price for nearly new cars of course.

    So its what makes deciding on a car full of questions!
    #55
  16. New Age Driver
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    New Age Driver Member

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    [Feb 27, 2008]
    http://www.dealdrivers.co.uk/html/audi_a3_3dr.html

    http://www.uknewcarsquote.co.uk/

    I've been doing some research. I was just wondering. These two sites, the dealdrivers one, works on PCP (not sure of the ins and out of that myself) and sounds a bit dodgy. The UKnewscarquote, I'm not sure, but I think it works on PCP as well. What do you guys make of this?

    Also, this may be a stupid question to ask, but if I buy off AutoTrader, privately, will I have to pay the amount there and then? I think I already know the answer, just me being daft.
    #56
  17. PeterS
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    PeterS Member

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    [Feb 27, 2008]
    I'm fairly sure you don't have to use a PCP with either of those companies; our A3 came from DriveTheDeal, who were offering the best price when we were looking, and although financing the car through them was an option it wasn't essential; we didn't. All dealings after the initial contact, including payment of the deposit and balance, were direct with the Audi dealer who supplied the car.

    With a private purchase you're right, you;ll need to have funds available on the day to take away the car; either cash, bankers draft or possibly CHAPS payment.

    Peter
    #57
  18. newbiecrg
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    newbiecrg windsurfer

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    [Feb 28, 2008]
    Well mate I believe you really like the A3 shape and would like an Audi A3.

    It is fair but if you can only assess the 1.6 and you like driving you will be dissappointed as the A3 is gutless with that engine...

    By all means buy the A3 but don't judge the A3 range by that lacklustre engine... In your case I would prefer a 1.9TDI as it has more torque and can be chipped if you feel you want more... Also it would be a lot easier to sell when time comes....

    Also don't buy new... specially now as a facelift is due soon...

    I am very tempted on a 2.0TDI 140 for hanging about but might go for a Volvo C30... just because A3 is due to change soon...

    Bottom line is Audi cars are expensive (without a particular reason, the badge it self costs £2k!!) they are solid and generally good cars but the bottom end of the range... I would not recommend... But depends on what you want... being 19 you probably like to have a bit more power.
    If not get the 1.6 it is a good car with a good but not so powerfull engine...

    Pedro
    #58
  19. PNH80
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    PNH80 Low life livin' the high life.

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    [Feb 28, 2008]
    Just a couple of points picking up on things people have said...
    It is true that the facelift is being released in a few months or whatever but from what i understand the difference will be minimal, with no technical improvements at all. So if you find a well priced nearly new model don't be put off buying it because you won't be missing out when the facelift arrives.

    Also, are audi A3's really over-priced? Out of the Leon, Golf and A3 only the A3 is manufactured in Germany and i'd imagine to higher standards. It feels the more solid luxurious of the 3 by some way in my opinion.
    Having said that, decent spec'd s-lines are in price competition with a 3-series BMW more than a 1 series so maybe slightly over-priced in that respect... matter of opinion i guess!

    Anyway from what people are saying, a 1.9 diesel may be the best shout if you really want an A3 given your insurance situation.
    #59
  20. newbiecrg
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    newbiecrg windsurfer

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    [Feb 28, 2008]
    I think there are A3 built outside Germany as well... ans yes they are overly priced... Similar product from VW is cheaper and I don't see where money really went... But I wanted an A3 shape so had to pay it...

    Pedro
    #60
  21. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Feb 28, 2008]
    FWIW, having just endured an Aberdeen-Manchester-Aberdeen trip in a 1.6Fsi Golf, I'd go for the 1.9tdi.
    Everything about the 1.6Fsi was just hard work.
    Needed revving, constant gearchanging etc.
    That affected the fuel consumption too, to the extent that it went through a tank of fuel in 350 miles, before we even got to Manchester.
    My 2.0tdi can do Aberdeen to Manchester with plenty left over.
    The 1.9tdi would be even better, in that respect.
    #61
  22. PNH80
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    PNH80 Low life livin' the high life.

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    [Feb 28, 2008]
    Yes, a VW will be similar but not the same in my experience. I think it's fair to be expected to pay more for an Audi over a VW e.g. an A4 over a Passat. Granted though... there is a line. But we live in a society which prices material items based on desirability, exclusivity etc. Is the R8 'technically' worth 20K more than an RS4 for what is essentially the same car, stripped out with a different body shell?

    To a point i think of Audi to VW as Lexus is to Toyota. Change the badge, bang up the price, add more luxury and gadgets.
    #62
  23. Dandle
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    Dandle Member

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    [Feb 28, 2008]
    The 8l A3 was initially built in Germany then production moved to Hungary for most of its life. The 8P A3 has only ever been built in Germany though.
    #63
  24. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Feb 28, 2008]
    That's a good analogy, but there's too much blurring with VW/Audi.
    I mean, there is little blurring with Toyota/Lexus.
    The cheapest Lexus is about £23K, you'd struggle to spend that on a Toyota.
    However, with VW/Audi, there is mucho blurring of their ranges.
    Golf/A3 around the same price, in many instances.(same sector too)
    Passat/A4 around the same price, in many instances (same sector too)
    Basically, VW/Audi fight for the same customers, in the Golf/A3/Passat/A4 sector.
    That's a bit daft, innit?
    We have a group of companies, but we don't cross each others services/products.
    This is why, in my opinion, Audi suffer from the 'glorified VW' tag more than other manufacturers.
    Too much confusion/blurring, rather than distinct demarcation.
    #64
  25. PNH80
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    PNH80 Low life livin' the high life.

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    [Feb 28, 2008]
    I definitely see your point. I just consider Audi to be more executive VW's in a way. It is a bit of a cheek that you pay extra for certain luxuries in an Audi which you'd get standard in the equivalent VW for a bit less.... Can't blame them though. People are obviously paying it. Including myelf!
    It wouldn't surprise me if Lexus did move into the smaller luxury car market. Volvo have done it and smaller models sell well for Audi, Mercedes and BMW so who knows.
    #65
  26. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Feb 28, 2008]
    True, but my argument is that Volvo, Mercedes and BMW don't have other marques closely linked to them, supplying cars to the same sector.
    Looking at it from our, much smaller, point of view, I would be furious if another company in our group starting competing with me!:no:
    #66
  27. newbiecrg
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    newbiecrg windsurfer

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    [Feb 28, 2008]
    Audi, within the VAG group, is supposed to be the prestige brand with a bit of sportiveness on it...

    I can see prestige in the badge and interior finishing which are quite good. But sport image? Most times Audi have absolutly same engine/gearbox combos, probably same engine mapping, even the haldex quattro is present on VW, just called 4motion!!

    The only models that really Audi true too its design inside the gruop are the S, RS or niche models... everything else is just a VAG with slight better interiors (doesn't really justify the price difference...) and a different bodyshell...

    I love my car but in the end the platform is the same of a VW Golf.... Besides, if it wasn't for quattro and 265hp the flagship hatchback in the VAG group would be the Golf GTI!!! In terms of handlind, etc, etc...

    There should be more difference between VW and Audi... (possible different engine maps, gear ratios, who knows...) Skoda is doing the same to VW.... getting very close to VW as VW tries to go upmarket closer to Audi...

    You can get the same 2.0 TDI 170 performance in a Seat, VW, Audi or Skoda...

    I am not slagging the brand but I am not fooled by it as well... Knew that I was paying more money then the cars are actually worth... but as someone pointed out... desirability makes the price hike!

    Pedro
    #67
  28. New Age Driver
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    New Age Driver Member

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    [Feb 28, 2008]
    I've taken into consideration what some of you have said, and have been looking at the 1.9litres engine A3's, today. I found one in the region of £16,500 which has the specs that I'm looking for. I also called my insurance company and they said that, on top of what I've already payed (£1000), it would be a further £1200 taking it up till next January. When I called up Direct Line, a month ago, about the 1.6 I think it I was quoted £1,000, so I don't think there's a major difference, in insurance, between the 1.6 and 1.9

    The insurance is pricey. I really do hate insurance, it's such a naggingg little thing to do. I spoke to a woman and she said she's 25 and personally she hasn't noticed a big drop down in her insurance until this year. I asked if I could go on my Mum's insurance but then realised that I don't think she is with Direct Line, so I'd have to speak to her insurance company, to see whether that would be drastically cheaper.

    What do you guys reckon?
    #68
  29. IN-A3
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    IN-A3 Member

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    [Feb 28, 2008]
    If you dont need an Audi badge the Fabia VRS is OK.
    #69
  30. mister.c.
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    mister.c. Member

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    [Feb 28, 2008]
    I'm not very knowledgable about insurance - my car is a company car.

    But is it not possible to lower your quote by putting your mother as a named driver on yours? I guess you've done all you can on other areas (garaged if poss, increased excess, etc).

    Is the car up for £16.5k? If it is, haggle them into the ground. I don't know whether it is or it is not overpriced but never pay what they advertise it at - if it is not an 08 plate remember the change of reg on Sat makes the used car one more reg plate older.
    #70
  31. New Age Driver
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    New Age Driver Member

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    [Feb 29, 2008]
    I don't know if I could put my Mum as a named driver. I know you can go on your Mum's insurance but I didn't know you could put her on yours?

    The car I've found is an 07 plate. I'm hoping to bounce them off each other. Say that I have looked at different cars, but from what I've heard, most dealers don't care for used cars and treat you like dirt if your buying one.
    #71
  32. PeterS
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    PeterS Member

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    [Feb 29, 2008]
    Adding an older driver to your policy does often lower your insurance premium; it still does for me, and I'm in my 30s!!

    £16.5k sounds a lot for an '07 plate 1.9 TDI though - the DriveTheDeal price for an A3 1.9TDI Sport (hatch), albeit with no options, brand new is only £16,750, and the 1.9TDI Special Edition is just £15k, again before options.

    I take the view that if I can't save at least £3k on nearly new vs new then I'll go new every time; you get the exact spec you want that way and, IME, the lead time is not that long for the A3

    Just my thoughts

    Peter
    #72
  33. New Age Driver
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    New Age Driver Member

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    [Feb 29, 2008]
    Well, it's a 1.9 TDI SE, for £16,450 and it's done like 5,000 miles. On DriveTheDeal, a 1.9SE new, is £18739. I don't know if that's too expensive or not that's why I'm asking but all the used 1.6 SE's I found were pretty much near the £16,000 mark. I was led to believe that the 1.9 was considerably better (than the 1.6), that I wouldn't be disappointed getting it and would definitely notice the difference. I dunno.
    #73
  34. mfspen
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    [Feb 29, 2008]
    Have you had a test drive of the 1.9TDI ?

    It is true that it has much more torque than the 1.6 petrol, but you have to put up with a car which sounds like a tractor ! The 1.6 would involve a lot more cog-swapping, but it is very smooth and refined. Depends which is more important to you.

    (I know which I'd have !)
    #74
  35. mister.c.
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    mister.c. Member

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    [Feb 29, 2008]
    I'd have the alternative, no wait if I was spending £16.5k on a used car then I'd not be looking at an 1.6 or 1.9tdi A3. Which gets to the heart of the matter; our opinions are just that.

    Its clear you've got your heart set down for an A3 and appear happy to buy a used (sorry I mean nearly new!) car. So you've driven the 1.6, its now time to get much more real life information on exactly what floats your A3 car boat.

    You say 'you dunno' which clearly means its time to move more from the forum into the dealership. I'd now test drive the 1.9 diesel, test drive a 2litre diesel and or a 2l fsi. I'd try and ensure one of the above is a variant of a model you want; alternatively sit in one / all of the varients you are interested in. Go to more than one dealer, see what they offer you, ask about demos, nearly new, special editions, not so special editions. It feels a tad pointless hunting down specific cars online when you're a way away from knowing what you want, and the only way to do is to drive and sit in potential options.

    From that you may know what exactly you want & the compromises you are happy with.
    #75
  36. cdb2
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    [Feb 29, 2008]
    I'd echo what msfpen said, make sure you drive before you decide, preferably back to back 1.6FSI and 1.9TDI. Prepare for the tractor\ice-cream van sound!
    #76
  37. PNH80
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    PNH80 Low life livin' the high life.

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    [Feb 29, 2008]
    Can i point out that Audi do insurance. I've never tried this myself but MAYBE a dealership could push a good deal on the insurance as part of the car purchase??

    Gotta be worth a try!
    #77
  38. bamurphy
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    bamurphy New Member VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 29, 2008]
    As for your insurance get your details in Compare.co.uk as for performance details get on Parkers.co.uk.

    reference to you Q before about FSI, Fuel Straitified Injection. long story short alters your fuel ratio when your not acceloration ie on the motoway and improves your fuel ecc. also injects the fuel in the compression stroke rather than the inlet stroke, inturn keeping your fuel closer to the spark giving a better burn. some please correct me if im wrong??
    #78
  39. New Age Driver
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    New Age Driver Member

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    [Feb 29, 2008]
    Well, I'm seeing a 1.9TDI tomorrow so I'll hopefully find out if it sounds like a tractor or not. I was leaning towards a 1.9, due to most people's comments about the 1.6 being too lethargic. I test drove the 1.6 a few weeks ago and it was nice and smoothe, if the 1.9 is too noisy then I'll go for the 1.6. I was looking at 1.8's, it's strange that they are quite expensive considering they've stopped making them.
    #79
  40. sat1983
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    sat1983 Member

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    [Feb 29, 2008]
    Are you on about the 1.8T?? That is relatively new- and packs in 160horses.
    #80

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