1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Which engine???

Discussion in 'New A3/S3 (8V Chassis)' started by RVP20, Nov 25, 2013.

  1. RVP20
    Offline

    RVP20 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2013
    Messages:
    221
    Likes Received:
    2
    [Nov 25, 2013]
    So I have been wondering what to order and I'm between the 1.4 tfsi COD and the 2.0 tdi (150).

    I'm stuck on which would be better as I want the power and the best mpg but I'm not sure which will be better at both? I have read that the 1.4 COD is only returning 34 mpg!!
    Also will the 1.4 COD be as powerful as the 2.0 tdi?

    Please please help 😨
    #1
  2. Ads

    Ads

    [Sep 15, 2014]

  3. cemerson
    Online

    cemerson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2013
    Messages:
    3,413
    Likes Received:
    696
    [Nov 25, 2013]
    How many miles a year are you doing, and how long will you keep the car? Economy is one thing but remember the diesel is ~£1,400 more expensive in the first place. The engines probably drive differently... I have no experience of the COD, but the TDI gives you a nice big boot of torque low down in the rev range, and can get you going quick in no time, but dies off around 4,000 rpm. I'm getting around 50mpg average out of mine at the moment, others seem to be doing better (damn them!)
    #2
  4. cemerson
    Online

    cemerson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2013
    Messages:
    3,413
    Likes Received:
    696
    [Nov 25, 2013]
    Assuming 50mpg and 34mpg (and 134.9 and 127.9 as costs of diesel and petrol - that's what they are around here anyway), by my calculations you have to do 27,915.8 miles to recoup the difference - BUT that doesn't count the higher maintenance costs of a diesel long-term.
    #3
  5. Gswearengin
    Offline

    Gswearengin New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2013
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    9
    [Nov 25, 2013]
    First of all, the obvious disclaimer is that this is a decision that only you can make. However, I was in a similar situation and went with the 1.4 TFSI COD. I'm sure an equal number of people here have had the same dilemma and made the opposite decision. I also have not received the car yet (Friday!), so my decision was made on test drives only and I have not yet had the experience of verifying that I (hopefully) made the right decision.

    Right, so we initially test drove a 2.0 TDI (s-line) and found it 100% adequate but maybe a little boring. It's certainly a left-handed complement to say I was amazed at how easy it was to get to 160kmph (Germany) but without much fanfare or excitement. I went home a little disappointment and did a little more homework and became very intrigued by the 1.4 TFSI COD. It's cheaper than the TDI, has similar power numbers (as long as you're not planning on towing anything) and reasonable fuel economy. We personally found the COD much more sprightly and more fun and interesting to drive on our test drive, as well as the normal gas vs. diesel more refined feeling. I used to have a MKV GTI with a 2.0 TFSI and 200 horsepower. Granted I have not driven that car in 3+ years! but the A3 honestly felt every bit as fun and fast as that car.

    Your decision would of course depend on how many miles you drive per year (we don't do very many), how long you plan to keep the car, whether you ever need to tow anything, and which engine characteristics are most important to you. The good news is that there is no wrong decision and both engines are fantastic, but you should certainly try to drive both and make a well-informed decision.

    GS
    #4
  6. cemerson
    Online

    cemerson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2013
    Messages:
    3,413
    Likes Received:
    696
    [Nov 25, 2013]
    Using the official mpg figures (67.3mpg and 58.9mpg - if you believe them) and current fuel prices, works out at 177,798 miles to recoup the price difference in fuel savings alone.
    #5
  7. cemerson
    Online

    cemerson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2013
    Messages:
    3,413
    Likes Received:
    696
    [Nov 25, 2013]
    Pretty much the reason I went with the TDI :)

    I have driven the A4 2.0 TDI and 1.8 TFSI recently, and found the opposite though - the TFSI was dull and boring, but the TDI gave you that nice kick of a diesel and made you feel like you were getting somewhere. Didn't like either of them anywhere near as much as the A3 though :)
    #6
  8. PilotAudi
    Offline

    PilotAudi New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2009
    Messages:
    2,353
    Likes Received:
    478
    [Nov 25, 2013]
    That isn't the whole story! Predicted residual values etc etc... I would think on what you enjoy driving most too - i.e sod the money ;-)
    #7
  9. cemerson
    Online

    cemerson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2013
    Messages:
    3,413
    Likes Received:
    696
    [Nov 25, 2013]
    Well yes, if you don't mind the money, you just pick the one you prefer driving! Hadn't factored in residuals, you are right - it's just a simple calculation on payback assuming fuel cost alone.
    #8
  10. scr222
    Offline

    scr222 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2013
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 25, 2013]
    How come that the 1.4 tfsi COD has more power overall than the 1.4 tfsi if it is only using 2 cylinders for part of the time? When COD is not being utilised is there any difference between the two cars? Forgive me if the question has been asked before but I am a newbie as you can probably tell.
    #9
  11. yetirider
    Offline

    yetirider Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2013
    Messages:
    145
    Likes Received:
    32
    [Nov 25, 2013]
    My dealer said the 1.6TDI would win on residual value and would provide a better PCP deal than a 1.4.
    I'm on my 2nd 1.6 TDI, its a good engine and well suited to the hills in the peak district.
    Fast enough to get you where you want to go, slow enough so you don't get into boy racer trouble.
    #10
  12. Daveotto
    Offline

    Daveotto Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2013
    Messages:
    922
    Likes Received:
    389
    [Nov 25, 2013]
    Putting the cost argument to one side, which I did. I went for the 2.0TDI.....as wanted more in gear "poke" especially when full loaded, the COD is slightly quicker from a standing start but the in gear pick up was the deciding factor for me.
    #11
    PilotAudi likes this.
  13. PilotAudi
    Offline

    PilotAudi New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2009
    Messages:
    2,353
    Likes Received:
    478
    [Nov 25, 2013]
    Residuals are THE factor that must not be ignored for cheaper motoring.
    #12
  14. snakehips
    Offline

    snakehips Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2013
    Messages:
    647
    Likes Received:
    222
    [Nov 25, 2013]
    ...assuming cheaper motoring is the priority rather than pure enjoyment.
    #13
  15. Broadstraik
    Offline

    Broadstraik Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2013
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    23
    [Nov 25, 2013]
    The COD is not more powerful than the TDi, 140PS vs 150PS and torque 250nm Vs. 320nm is even more in favour of the TDi. The COD is faster to 60 Mph though at 8.3 secs vs 8.6 secs due to the lighter weight of the petrol engine by 85kg.

    I went for the COD because I only do about 7,000 miles a year, it is cheaper to buy, to pay for fuel,is quieter, lighter, faster to 60, felt more lively to drive albeit you need to work the gears more but the diesel wins on fuel economy and torque and if you are towing anything.
    #14
  16. PilotAudi
    Offline

    PilotAudi New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2009
    Messages:
    2,353
    Likes Received:
    478
    [Nov 25, 2013]
    I said that in hash 7
    #15
  17. snakehips
    Offline

    snakehips Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2013
    Messages:
    647
    Likes Received:
    222
    [Nov 25, 2013]
    Yes, and I'm with you on that.
    #16
  18. RVP20
    Offline

    RVP20 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2013
    Messages:
    221
    Likes Received:
    2
    [Nov 25, 2013]
    Wow thank you all for the honest replies! A lot to think about. I do around 12k miles a year so what would you think? This is mainly sat in traffic to and from work (stop start all the way).

    Also I was wondering about the comments on residual values? Is the 2.0 tdi going to hold the value better?
    #17
  19. PilotAudi
    Offline

    PilotAudi New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2009
    Messages:
    2,353
    Likes Received:
    478
    [Nov 25, 2013]
    You really need to seek several 'expert' opinions on that one.
    #18
  20. cemerson
    Online

    cemerson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2013
    Messages:
    3,413
    Likes Received:
    696
    [Nov 25, 2013]
    I would still test drive both regardless of any arguments for cost/economy/performance
    #19
  21. Fragup
    Offline

    Fragup Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2013
    Messages:
    462
    Likes Received:
    183
    [Nov 25, 2013]
    Have driven the diesel 150ps and have ordered the C.O.D. Based on reviews and driving similar ish engines.
    they are probably the closest two engines in the range, diesel best for motorway driving, fully loaded car, on very high mileage it will pay for itself if you count residual values. Petrol better for acceleration, handling, back lanes, more refined, Medium to lower mileage (20000 or less over 3 - 4 years )
    both get great reviews and are the best fun v overall costs in the range for me.
    I loved the diesel and hope / expect the C.O.D. to match.
    average real world mpg for C.O.D. Quoted at 45-46 mpg, diesel quoted at 53-54 mpg, but varies a lot depending on driving style and type of journeys done. There's not much in it money wise so go for the one you like.
    good luck !
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2013
    #20
  22. cuke2u
    Online

    cuke2u Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2013
    Messages:
    1,725
    Likes Received:
    351
    [Nov 26, 2013]
    I am sure that you won't regret your choice. You do not do the mileage really to have a diesel, plus, and no-one said anything about this, you have to consider whether you might have dpf issues on a diesel in stop start conditions over short journey's...
    #21
  23. AJB
    Offline

    AJB Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2013
    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    21
    [Nov 26, 2013]
    The COD is more powerful that the "regular" 1.4 when the COD isn't being utilised and has significantly more torque (250Nm vs 200Nm). This could just be down to a different ECU map, but I suspect they might also be able to use different cam profiles, and therefore different valve openings, on the COD. If I'm right, this would be because they know that at light load they can use 2 cylinders instead of 4 to get decent fuel economy, and so there is less need to compromise the valve openings. The "regular" 1.4 has to make more of a compromise between decent efficiency at light load and in the EU test, versus decent power and torque under heavier load, and so it might have to have more restrictive valve openings.

    That's just a complete guess on my part though - I'd love to know the actual facts!! But either way I'm really liking my COD engine so far.
    #22
  24. PilotAudi
    Offline

    PilotAudi New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2009
    Messages:
    2,353
    Likes Received:
    478
    [Nov 26, 2013]
    No one said anything about this cuk as it is an old myth... very few issues these days with DPF... we've had 7 years and several vehicles with them miles pa range between 6-42,000... No problems whatsoever!! Also what mileage do you have to do to have a diesel (in your view) and what factors do you take into account?
    #23
  25. cuke2u
    Online

    cuke2u Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2013
    Messages:
    1,725
    Likes Received:
    351
    [Nov 26, 2013]
    Hi, I had a modern, non-maintenance ceramic DPF on my diesel for three and a half years, thank you, so I know all about issues when only stop start town journeys take place.

    As you know if a regeneration doesn't take happen, or has failed, then a warning light will show on the dash indicating that a regen needs to happen and the car will then need to go on a 20 mile or so run at around 60mph in, say, 4th gear to clean the dpf. If you do not do this then the car will need to go into a dealership and have the dpf cleaned out of soot, if it isn't too late by then.

    Why would they put a light on the dash unless they knew that dpf's have issues?

    diesel particulate filter (dpf) | AA

    Nobody recommends a diesel engine vehicle, with a dpf, if you only undertake town driving. The same driving conditions that the OP states. I do around 5k miles a year travelling from a small village to the town where I work, around 5 miles. A diesel with a dpf would be totally unsuitable for those driving conditions and the worst choice of engines. You can take measures by driving the car once a month using the style of driving I previously mentioned, but who wants to waste diesel, expensive as it is, these days?

    The 2.2l diesel engine in the previous Mazda 6 used to bang quite easily when a failed regen took place.
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2013
    #24
  26. PilotAudi
    Offline

    PilotAudi New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2009
    Messages:
    2,353
    Likes Received:
    478
    [Nov 26, 2013]
    I am talking Audi DPF.. not Mazda/Ford products. I am aware that there are issues just reporting that in our business we have had no such experiences with VW/Audi products. Audi made a 1.2Tdi engine (only sold in Europe) for the A2 widely used for local travel. Current 1.6/2.0Tdi VW Diesels are fine for lower mileage drivers.
    #25
  27. kmacuk
    Offline

    kmacuk New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2013
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    7
    [Nov 26, 2013]
    Below are the numbers I generated to compare 1.4 Std and 1.4 COD running costs over 3 years as a difference to the costs for the diesel. I Assumed 35% residual increase against the additional engine costs (+£850 for COD and +£2300 relative to the 1.4 std petrol). Assumed a 10p/l difference in fuel costs diesel v petrol.
    Based on these calculations you are saving over all up to 12k annual mileage. 20k+ it makes sense, which really everyone knows. I only do 8k/year and having driven all 3 the COD was the one for me, despite the 1.4 being more cost effective.
    These costs are over 3 years, so when you are spending £25k+ on a car the numbers are all pretty marginal compared to purchase price and depreciation.
    I therefore agree with previous comments that when buying at this price level you choose the car you like to drive rather than to save a small amount of monthly running costs - if you are an average mileage driver the extra purchase cost is a greater impact.

    My personal preference was COD, Diesel then standard. The Diesel has a wider power/torque band to my current 2.2 Civic diesel which meant it felt less powerful, but was more petrol like - up to around 4k revs (Civic peaks around 3k).
    The COD was much more fun and having more refined revs to play with makes for a good driving compromise.
    I was pretty impressed with the 1.4 engine and would happily have taken any of them. The £2300 premium for the diesel was a big factor for me so quickly got eliminated based on my mileage and looking for a change.

    [TABLE="width: 500"]

    Miles
    MPG
    8K
    12K
    15K
    20K
    40K

    1.4 Std
    40
    £635
    £205
    -£120
    -£650
    -£2800









    1.4 COD
    45
    £495
    £265
    -£100
    -£185
    -£1300









    2.0(150) DTI
    53
    [TD="align: center"]-[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]-[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]-[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]-[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]-[/TD]
    [/TABLE]
    #26
  28. RVP20
    Offline

    RVP20 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2013
    Messages:
    221
    Likes Received:
    2
    [Nov 26, 2013]
    Ok thanks for all the replies again! Well I do about 12k a year stop start in traffic quite a lot. Would the 2.0 tdi hold it's value a lot more when I come to sell in maybe 5 years?
    #27
  29. cuke2u
    Online

    cuke2u Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2013
    Messages:
    1,725
    Likes Received:
    351
    [Nov 26, 2013]
    I doubt it would as a percentage to the overall figure you paid for it...
    #28
  30. RVP20
    Offline

    RVP20 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2013
    Messages:
    221
    Likes Received:
    2
    [Nov 27, 2013]
    Such a tough decision argh!!!!! 😰
    #29
  31. cemerson
    Online

    cemerson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2013
    Messages:
    3,413
    Likes Received:
    696
    [Nov 27, 2013]
    Test drive them both, it may make your decision for you :)
    #30
  32. Little Red Monster
    Offline

    Little Red Monster Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2013
    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    17
    [Nov 29, 2013]
    I agree with cemerson 100%. Test drive both models for a sensible period and hopefully one will stand out as the one for you, simple as that. If they both feel the same, then buy the cheapest and have a holiday in the sun to celebrate your purchase, or some extras such as the B&O system, which brings a smile to my face every time I start the car!!
    #31
  33. RVP20
    Offline

    RVP20 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2013
    Messages:
    221
    Likes Received:
    2
    [Nov 29, 2013]
    When u say a sensible period how do u mean? Usually u get like 10 mins to drive with a salesman sat there?
    #32
  34. cemerson
    Online

    cemerson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2013
    Messages:
    3,413
    Likes Received:
    696
    [Nov 29, 2013]
    Ask for longer. Say you need longer to decide - most will allow you to take a car for a day or so.
    #33
  35. RVP20
    Offline

    RVP20 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2013
    Messages:
    221
    Likes Received:
    2
    [Nov 29, 2013]
    Does anyone know the true mpg on these cars? 1.4 cod and 2.0 tdi (150)?
    Obviously audi will give the best figures but I wondered what people are getting on these engines?
    #34
  36. cemerson
    Online

    cemerson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2013
    Messages:
    3,413
    Likes Received:
    696
    [Nov 29, 2013]
    Again, entirely depends on the journeys you are doing! I'm getting 50 in TDI for most of my commuting, bit less for town driving, little bit more for motorway (I do drive fast on the motorway...), average is probably mid to high 40s but I haven't checked in a while.
    #35
  37. h5djr
    Offline

    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2003
    Messages:
    7,514
    Likes Received:
    568
    [Nov 29, 2013]
    I would never make a decision on a car with a least a half-day drive on my own. So far both the Audi and VW dealers have given me this as I still trying to decide between a new A3 or a new Golf 7. The biggest problems is finding dealers who have demonstrators of the models I want to drive. Some times they will let you drive one of their 'service fleet' cars which they use to loan to customers when their car is in for service.

    As I have been using my current Audi dealer for the last 15 years and have purchased a total of eight A3s all from the same sales guy he is quite happy to let me have any car they have as a demonstrator for the day.
    #36
  38. Daveotto
    Offline

    Daveotto Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2013
    Messages:
    922
    Likes Received:
    389
    [Nov 29, 2013]
    i am getting about the same, long term average around 50, work commutes (10 miles) about 48 and motorway driving fast around 53
    #37
  39. Little Red Monster
    Offline

    Little Red Monster Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2013
    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    17
    [Nov 29, 2013]
    cemerson's quote answers your question perfectly. Bu certainly no less than an hour to make a decision.
    #38
  40. RVP20
    Offline

    RVP20 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2013
    Messages:
    221
    Likes Received:
    2
    [Nov 29, 2013]
    How do u mean?
    #39
  41. RVP20
    Offline

    RVP20 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2013
    Messages:
    221
    Likes Received:
    2
    [Nov 29, 2013]
    It seems like the mpg is very close
    #40

Share This Page