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Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by *P3nfold*, Jan 28, 2013.
Do you have yours at the top or bottom?
I'd have them at the top but some people run them at the bottom so they are easier to get at to adjust, my issue with that is instead of pushing the top of the wheel out, you are in fact pulling the bottom of the wheel in to match.. (if you can understand my point) I'd go for the top.
Top and bottom lol.
I've been doing some thinking on this. If you have them on the top, you increase rear toe, it's better to have them on the bottom to keep the toe as near as factory as possible I think.
Have them on the bottom Martin. Yours are in the wrong place.
I don't have any on, my cars not lowered yet but id have thought top would of been best as its the top of the wheel that cambers in? or is it infact the bottom of the wheel pushes out making it look the other way round?.. that's just my thought but if bottom is best then I will stick to that.. confusing haha
There's no best position for them, they work either on top or bottom, it really depends on what you are comfortable with. If on top, I guess you would have a slightly wider track than if they are fitted at the bottom.
It will affect geo either way mate... it will still pivot on the fixed tie bar and alter the toe... I would imagine the degree of alteration will be different due to the pivot points but I have mine on the bottom and still required toe adjustment...
One thing to note is when mine was done, camber was set to -0.5deg followed by a zero toe setup... this then threw camber out again so it was a balancing act to get them both set right... took um a couple of goes but I got my moneys worth out of the alignment ;P
Mine is currently on the top and was wondering does this make sense to move this to the bottom?
I've got Forge, and they are supposed to be fitted on top apparently. I've got mine on top. It will push the wheel out, if mounted bottom you will have to shorten the bar, and I've read that some can not shorten it sufficiently to get the camber they want. See below.
Here is what a Forge rep states:
"On the TT,S3, LCR we find that the replacement of the top tie bars only is normally satisfactory to correct lowering of 25-35mm. If the car has been lowered significantly more it may be necessary to replace the lower bars also, but we have only seen this requirement on racing rather than road going cars. The reason we recommend changing the upper tie bars on road going cars rather than the lower bars, is because the level sensors are normally fitted to the lower bars and few installers have the facility for re-calibration."
I have mine on the bottom as well
Erm.. good luck replacing the rear tie bars on an LCR
As said it'll effect the toe setting either way, and the toe and camber need adjusting together afterwards. If you weren't going to the trouble of a proper alignment I'd personally put them at the bottom, as I'd rather have a little extra toe-out (or less in) on a car that's as stable as an S3 is at factory settings, but I wouldn't have said there's a wrong or right way.
LCR came in 4mo guise also, but not over here.
I have mine fitted to the top also.
Just buy 2 sets like i did and problem solved and bo worries of them ever snapping lol.
Not all of us are rich and crazy like you!
Lol does dave still make them?
Haha not rich, just still live at home, crazy yes lol.
No dave doesnt make them due to the costs involved, shame as their amazing quality, ive got his fitted, think mine are some of the last sets he produced.
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Damn, I might move mine to the bottom. I thought the bottom tie arms are the week point?
Generally it is the bottom but the top can snap. The bushes that the tie bars connect onto the hub are the reason the arms snap due tothe bushes seizing, their what you need to replace like i am with the updated part.
Cheers Dani, food for thought, just need to work out the cost vs benefit.
No worries pal. For referrence the bushes, youll need four, work out over £40, maybe depending where you get them from.
Ah, makes sense, forgot about foreign markets!
What actually is the issue that's supposed to cause the arms to snap then? I don't really see how a rubber bush can 'seize', they're not meant to rotate in the first place.
There's a rose joint in the hub that seizes. Worth checking when replacing the arms.
Just a future tip for any searchers, avoid the gruvenparts rose jointed arms if it's seeing the road. Mine have been on about 2 months and are creaking and have play in them already. Going to get some bush ends from "MadMax" to replace them. Noise wise though, they aren't a problem. If you want rose jointed, CPT do some really nice ones:
welcome to chicago performance & tuning - your european performance specialists
I run all 4 too. Mainly because I wanted to get it all setup spot on.
Ah, that makes sense, so the lower arm's on a spherical bearing/rose joint rather than a bush like the top one?
Sorry to hear you're having issues with rose joints, they do tend to wear fast on road cars, and the price difference between decent ones and cheep ones is scary, so a lot of parts that come with them have **** ones on them. At least it's not a car covered in them I guess. I helped re-build a Radical Pro-sport at college, and despite them being fairly rose-joint free for a circuit car that still came in at well over £700 to replace them all!
They both use the rose joint at the hub end, the |_| bracket bolts to it, allowing vertical and horizontal movement, although horizontal movement is minimal I suspect.
Yeah gruvenparts reckon these are decent ptfe lined self lubricating joints but clearly they are cheapos. Decent joints seem to last well, many have been using those CPT arms on the road for extended periods, 50k+. I'm going for bushes anyway as Max has done a fair bit of testing to find the right bushes. I was going to get some QA1 rose joints (said to be very good) to replace these but it's not worth it.
LCR never came with 4wd, on the the continent they came as the leon 4 with the 2.8 v6 or top sports with 1.8t (k03s)
Yeah, that makes sense now. I'm hoping to be doing a weird set-up out back on my Scirocco sometime that'll involve a fair few rose joints, as well as wanting to rose joint my front lower-arms in the long run. As well as using cheep joints, companies seem to regularly under-spec them for road cars too, as they often just size them to fit the bolt they're going onto, rather than thinking properly about the longevity needed on a road car. Anyway, this is pretty off-topic now!
Have you got a link to the QA1 joints? I'd be interested to see their prices/specs. Mcgill Motorsport always seem to get spoken well of, and it's bloody hard to find the same spec joints as cheep. www.mcgillmotorsports.co.uk (Powered by CubeCart) (Pretty sure those are all Kevlar/PTFE lined.)
By the way Dani, pretty sure you are wrong about Dave not making them. I heard through the grapevine he has started up making them again in mild steel to help keep the costs down..
Martin, might as well buy another set for max adjustment :thumbsup:
Aye the "Recession busters"....
How many beers had you drunk when this picture was taken?
I think it was taken by Stevie Wonder with Parkinson's.
where did you get that pic from....
Very nice mate, glad youve started making them again pal.
Awesome Dave, can you PM me please!!!!
Can't you PM him?
Dont worry jojo, dave has already contacted me.
Next question will be is it better to put the stainless tie-arm at the bottom and mild steel at the top?
follOwed by the question, does it really ****ing matter