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when did S4s go to variable servicing?

Discussion in 'A4/S4 forum(B5 Chassis)' started by Matt82, Sep 25, 2009.

  1. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    [Sep 25, 2009]
    nearly all the cars ive come across have had their first service at 20k miles and then every 20k thereafter.

    no wonder they go through turbos and MAFs. its a joke that people spending £40k on a car would be that tight on the upkeep and its really putting me off them now
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  3. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 25, 2009]
    its a standard audi feature and in came in sometime in the late 90's.

    Also given that Audi charge more for the AVS longlife service, they probably thaught they were giving the car the better treatment...

    i wouldnt worry too much, sludging issues seem to be much rarer on S4's for some reason, infact i've never heard of it, and lets face it, they're all getting on for 10 years old, so some sensor failures are going to happen. millions of cubic feet of air have passed thru the meter, and its not going to work forever is it?
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  4. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    [Sep 25, 2009]
    extra crud carried by the blow by, through the PCV etc is not going to help though

    i suspect the bad oil is why there are so many turbo failures. ive known ko3 turbos on 20vt engiens to go straight past 200k miles without issues.

    if i do get an s4 it will be (an older one) which has had the 10k service intervals
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  5. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 25, 2009]
    PCV vents into the Y pipe after the MAF though?

    Boost leaks are what causes the turbo failures imo. The stock turbo will as you say go to interstellar mileage, but with a few boost leaks in there, the turbo is constantly working harder and thats why they fail, in the same way if you took a standard car, and remapped it with 0 miles on the clock, its turbo would fail waay before a standard motor, simply due to the extra wear on the turbo internals from the higher state of tune.

    I would be far more interested in the overall condition of the car, than focusing on the particulars of how often the oil was changed. Look in the filler cap for signs of sludge build up for instance. If its all squeaky clean, then even if its been on 20k intervals the chances are the insides are still in good condition.
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  6. Blue_Thunder
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    Blue_Thunder Active Member

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    [Sep 25, 2009]
    But cam failures have been attributed to long life servicing on the S4's due to contaminants in the oil.

    And turbo failures on these cars aren't just down to boost leaks. There have been some cases of oil baking inside the turbo oil lines if the engine is repeatedly turned off when the turbos are very hot. This causes a blockage in the oil lines which leads to insufficient lubrication of the turbo bearings which leads to you not considering all of the potential reasons for turbo failure.

    Also the oil vapour breathed from the PCV could be blown out as far as the MAF when the DV's open from full boost, hence why a hot film MAF was used on the S4 - they can measure air travelling both directions past the element.

    Boo Yaa!!
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  7. Dan Gliballs
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    Dan Gliballs Active Member

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    [Sep 25, 2009]
    Many turbos don't die until 120K miles and beyond,..........I don't think that's too bad really. Turbos on ALL cars die eventually (obviously).

    My S4 is nearly 11 years old and has had the same turbos for nearly 98K miles.
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  8. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    [Sep 25, 2009]
    bin the recirc valves for compressor surge WIN
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  9. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 25, 2009]
    Hmm ye didnt think about the cam failures!

    I fully agree with you on the turbo failures due to oil baking, but at the end of the day thats more down to the driver being a twat. Even if it was serviced every 5k, if everytime the bloke took it out he razzed it to death then turned it off without cooling down, the same problem would occur.

    You'll never know either way, because a prospective seller isnt going to tell you that is he!

    All i'm saying is dont worry about it too much, the overall package is far more important imo than focusing on one item. You could finally find a car thats been serviced every 10k, buy it thinking yeehah and then the turbos pack up becuase of the aforementioned issue, or it turns out its had 10w40 semi synth put thru it every 10k and the engines at deaths door.

    And it was probably a joke, but a think the general concensus is that the K03 shaft isnt strong enough to ditch the DV's and doing so would probably result in a snapped shaft...
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  10. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    [Sep 25, 2009]
    98k miles is nothing though. we shouldnt be impressed that it lasted that long, it should do double that if looked after properly

    seeing as a lot of s4s are 100k miles+ i hope i dont end up with a lemon
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  11. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    [Sep 25, 2009]
    as for 10k vs 20k im hedging my bets with 10k for sure. ive never kept the oil in an engine for 20k miles :lmfao:
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  12. Blue_Thunder
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    Blue_Thunder Active Member

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    [Sep 25, 2009]
    I bought my 98 S4 with 78k on the clock with FASH. It had been serviced every year by Audi (not longlife services) and had invoices for oil changes at 6 month intervals for a period (presumably one of the three owners was a bit more caring). A few months after buying it, my K03's failed. :-(

    I've always been religious about warming up and cooling down and rarely drive the car hard, so can only presume one of the previous owners had given it a hard time. I think I have been particularly unlucky with mine, but it does seem to be luck of the draw.

    Zerok66 had only about 50k on his when the turbos went on his 2000MY S4 (it's not just pre-facelift cars which suffer). Chris from MRC on the other hand had over 200k on his original turbos before he decided to upgrade them (he had bought it privately with big miles in the first place so that's not just down to it being owned by a mechanic).

    Tis German Roulette! :tocktock:
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  13. SonicDeathmonkey
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    SonicDeathmonkey Member

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    [Sep 25, 2009]
    My 99 S4 is an ex-company car, with FASH when I bought it in 2002. It's now on 180K with original turbos.
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  14. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    [Sep 25, 2009]
    yup, does seem to be a bit of a roulette. if they pop thats just an excuse to do "you know what"

    im not afraid of high milers, i know what becomes a consumable once youre past 140k etc but i dont like the sounds of "engine almost out" to do the turbos
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  15. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 25, 2009]
    afaik its an engine out job, there just isnt enough room otherwise.
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  16. Dan Gliballs
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    Dan Gliballs Active Member

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    [Sep 25, 2009]
    I disagree.

    98K miles is a lot to me,................11 years of motoring.

    They could go on and on and on. They're showing no signs of weakness..........unfortunately.
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  17. Dan Gliballs
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    Dan Gliballs Active Member

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    [Sep 25, 2009]
    And that's remapped from new aswell /\ /\ /\
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  18. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    [Sep 25, 2009]
    have yours been on 10k or 20k intervals?
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  19. s4marsh
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    s4marsh Member

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    [Sep 25, 2009]
    i was talking to a lad today that remaps cars and owns 2 modified bmw M5's v8+v10 and has owned a s4 briefly not so long ago.we were on about k03's being fragile when running high boost and the inevitable swap over,the way he talked about it made it sound quite an easy diy job and certainley didnt invole removing or lifting the engine just the bonnet and stuff from the top of the engine.and more or less said dont believe the hype and resulting cost of a straight swap over that people seem to be paying...now i know whats easy for one person may be impossible for others(me) in the construction enviroment i can make things look easy and top mechanics on here would struggle with and cock up for example so, have many non mechanically trained people attempted a turbo swap at home with minimal tools and equipment and what was the outcome??? what would be the spanner rating given by haynes....lol
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  20. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 25, 2009]
    Everything i've read says the engine needs to be removed. Theres simply not enough room to get at the turbos, as they sit down behind the engine, right up against the bulkhead.
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  21. s4marsh
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    s4marsh Member

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    [Sep 25, 2009]
    i know thats what i thought..i've read quite a few of the how to threads on here, rs246 and american sites and it looks a massive job to me although jbs only quote 8 hours for the job too. obviously all the right gear but for an engine drop turbo swap and replace it ready to roll that seems rather quick to me, what do you think as someone with experience of removing engines?
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  22. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    [Sep 25, 2009]
    ive had doubts too

    with all due respect to the site, there seem to be a lot (LOT) of posters on the board that dont know their big end from a big breakfast. with 20vt lumps, changing the stat is meant to be a total missing of a job but to a normal spannerer like me it took 10 minutes. fitting eibach ARBs on an 8L a3 was meant to be impossible/required voodoo and i did the front end one night in the dark between 8pm and mid night, including new wishbones.

    if space was so tight (and the ko3 is absolutely tiny) how on earth do people get much larger blowers in there?

    audi types arnt always the most mechanically minded, so hence im not worried at all about taking on an S4 and keeping it tip top

    still looking for one at the right price (ie a total bargain)

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  23. S4twiggy
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    S4twiggy Fully Certified Detailer!!

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    [Sep 25, 2009]
    i know wt your saying matt, alot of people i know get worried about doing things on their own so go to garages to do the work for them, my old man is an old skool fella who in his younger days swapped engines out of this and into that type of thing, the main reason i think people dont want to do the work hemselves s that they need the car on the road, if you have no worries about having the car off the road for a few days then you can save yourself alot of money by doing things yourself. if these mechanics can do it well why not yourself. dont get me wrong alot has to do with having the right tools but im lucky to wrk in an industry where i can get anything i need so ill be doing most all work myself unless i need some help, im no professional but im not scared to get stuck into a car if i need to.

    as for the turbo situation i have no idea if it can be done without removing the engine but thats something i shall be looking at when the time comes. it would be interesting to know someon who has changed the turbos on the S4 without taking the engine out.
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  24. Dan Gliballs
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    Dan Gliballs Active Member

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    [Sep 25, 2009]
    Definitely an engine out job,......nice and accessible when out.

    I'm sure that if there WAS a better way of doing it with the engine in, then QST/AMD/MRC/Unit 20 etc would do it.

    The M5 geezer sounds like he was trivialising the job out of good old fashioned male bravado.
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  25. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 25, 2009]
    its probably one of those things, it may well be possible without completely removing the motor by lowering it off its mounts and wiggling, prizing and using voodoo to squeeze the blowers from the bottom or whatever, but you probably find its that much faf and aggro, its far easier just to pull the lump and get nice clean access to everything.

    I didnt have a problem doing the stat on the 1.8t, its in a differnt place on longitudinal motors meaning it took a few tries to get it back in without the bits ending up on the floor, but couldnt have taken me more than 20-30mins.

    I've tackled everything on the Audi myself, and most jobs on previous cars myself. Partly due to necessity (i cant afford to pay some garage $$$ to fix it) and partly because i dont trust garages any further than i can throw them.

    I suspect most peoples biggest fear is ending up stuck half way thru a job, with the car in bits, and either some part or some tool missing, or some part breaking off/shearing/rounding. Espcially if your new to DIY mechanics you'll tend not to have aquired many of the less common tools, nor the little tips and tricks to release those awkward bits.
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  26. s4marsh
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    s4marsh Member

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    [Sep 25, 2009]
    see i'm of the old school up-bringing, mend and make do, if you cant afford it then make it type of guy but as mentioned now i've sold my runabout it has consequences the car being in bits for days and as for male bravado yes its easy to make a job sound simple because for that person it maybe but its like when i did a manifold gasket on a mk2 golf years ago its up against the bulkhead and everybody else at the time including garages said the head needs to come off to do it properly,i had to twist and flip it round and wiggle it yes but you get there in the end,i think its the value of the cars that puts people off, i wouldnt think twice with a banger like my mk2 gti's in the past i'd tackle anything including an 1.8t conversion with mk4 dashboard and full re-wire but lately i seem more wary ultimately i think its value related
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2009
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  27. s4marsh
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    s4marsh Member

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    [Sep 25, 2009]
    on the main topic tho my s4 has had a service every 5k from new including new plugs every 10k so i've just continued with that schedule i pay £178 to service it thats with plugs too
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  28. Dan Gliballs
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    Dan Gliballs Active Member

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    [Sep 25, 2009]
    I used to pull my Vauxhalls apart for yeeeears, but I touch my S4 a lot less. Lot more complex and expensive.
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  29. Dan Gliballs
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    Dan Gliballs Active Member

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    [Sep 25, 2009]
    TBH, three proper services in the 22k miles I've had it ;)
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  30. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    [Sep 27, 2009]
    how many miles had it done when its first ever service was carried out?
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  31. Dan Gliballs
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    Dan Gliballs Active Member

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    [Sep 27, 2009]
    I'll dig the paperwork out.
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  32. s4marsh
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    s4marsh Member

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    [Sep 28, 2009]
    mine says 3200 1st service 5500 2nd service then every 5k after that
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  33. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    [Sep 28, 2009]
    marsh, that really is rare from what ive seen so for on my hunt for an S4

    i emailed a guy the other day in lancashire, he has a green on and i asked if it was 10k or 20k intervals. his reply was along the lines of "youd have to be mad to do it every 20k" but it didnt answer the actual question i asked

    his looks like a nice car though, ive not got back to him yet
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  34. s4marsh
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    s4marsh Member

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    [Sep 28, 2009]
    i think mine was done so soon like that because it was the pre registrered demo car for lancashire audi and was sold to the first owner with just over 3k on the clock for £36995 he serviced it a 5k and he continued to service it every 5k and i've just followed that i suspect with that being the same audi dealer that supplied mine as the one your looking at if it was them, they'll have told him to do the same routine every 5k
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2009
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