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What's the standard boost on a 2.0TFSi

Discussion in 'Audi S4/A4/A4 Cab (B7 Chassis)' started by Scott.T, Oct 19, 2012.

  1. Scott.T
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    Scott.T Member

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    [Oct 19, 2012]
    What the standard peak and held boost level on a 2.0TFSI.
    I assume it peaks around 3,500rpm and tails off towards the redline.

    What level of boost do the regular stage 1 remaps (ie AMD etc...) run it up to, and what's the max avaialable from the standrd turbo / injectors

    What's the easiest boost/vacum hoes to 'T' a gauge into ?

    What turbo do I have as standard

    What AFR do they run at peak torque and redline WOT.

    Sorry for all the questions & Many Thanks
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  3. Scott.T
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    Scott.T Member

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    [Oct 20, 2012]
    No one knows then ?? :w00t:
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  4. a6_chris
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    a6_chris Well-Known Member

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    [Oct 20, 2012]
    It's the weekend - give people a chance to reply.
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  5. Craig Cull
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    Craig Cull Well-Known Member

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    [Oct 21, 2012]
    hi mate, can answer a couple of questions you've asked. The standard turbo is a ko3s, apparently with the standard turbo you can achieve around 280 bhp (ish). Others may be more precise. If you want more than this then you need to look at a k04 conversion. Check the full threads from Solaris and bez, they have been very helpfull when it comes to the more technical questions.as for the gauge, from standard I'm not sure how to connect, but with the forge diverter/blow off valve, you can tap straight into the vacuum pipe for your gauge. I also found this performs much better on a warmer day than standard.

    The rest I'm afraid I have idea lol! Hope this helps :)
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  6. Scott.T
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    Scott.T Member

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    [Oct 21, 2012]
    cheers for you help Craig
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  7. razza1
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    razza1 Well-Known Member

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    [Oct 22, 2012]
    I thought it was just a k03, not a k03s?
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  8. Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev.
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    [Oct 22, 2012]
    Hi Scott,


    They run around 0.7 bar as standard, peak comes in just over 2k if you load it up low enough in a high gear. I can dig out the curve if needed.


    Typical stage 1 boost is around 1.2 bar but varies from map to map. The turbo will flow around 280bhp as pointed out above. Injector flow depends on the high pressure fuel pump. As standard they run AFR of 14:1 on WOT until they get hot and then enrichment kicks in.


    Thanks, Rick
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  9. Chris79
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    Chris79 On my 3rd A4! RS4 next???

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    [Oct 22, 2012]
    This is interesting reading, I don't think I've seen a stage 1 map offer over 240bhp never mind 280! Are you suggesting any supporting mods?

    I have a special edition tfsi so 220bhp standard - I often feel a little more would be nice and have considered a Revo trial but not followed it up - people say Revo is aggressive - I'm after progressive.

    Any thoughts?

    Chris
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  10. Scott.T
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    Scott.T Member

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    [Oct 22, 2012]
    Thanks for the reply Rick and WOW !!!! 14.1 no wonder their more economical then my scooby.
    You mention enrichment kicks in when they get got, what does it then richen up too ?
    I assume this is triggered by increases of EGT or Intake Temps.

    The Scoobies run 14.7 stoich until around 3,000rpm or until achieving positive boost, then richen up to (in most cases) gradually to under 11 AFR OE map or 11.2 - 11.5AFR remapped (maybe as lean as 12 AFR on a built motor).

    I would like to have a play on the Audi, as have been mapping Impreza's on/off for years. But there doesn't seem to be any good opensource tools for Audi. The definition files (assuming they are correct) I have seen look very different to what I am used to. I assume its a much more intelligent system than that used on the old flat 4 boxer.

    Thanks again for your response.
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2012
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  11. Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev.
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    [Oct 23, 2012]
    Hi Chris,

    280 is with the turbo on its knees, with a full non cat turbo back exhaust, it isn't a stage 1 map :)

    Rick
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  12. Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev.
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    [Oct 23, 2012]
    Hi Scott, the enrichment is triggered primarily by a modelled EGT temp. Further enrichment can be triggered by the EGT sensors. When remapped, the AFR is closer to the Scooby values you are used to. The Bosch ECU used on the Audi is hugely complicated, massively more so than anything out of Japan. Bosch invented the ECU and they are just massively ahead when it comes to development. This does make them difficult to understand and map initially, but they are great once you have devoted thousands of hours to them!

    Rick
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  13. hades-
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    hades- Yorkshire & Humber Rep. Regional Rep VCDS Map User

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    [Oct 23, 2012]
    you need something like this for boost gauge
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  14. Chris79
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    Chris79 On my 3rd A4! RS4 next???

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    [Oct 23, 2012]
    Wishfull thinking on my part!

    I too had an Impreza, it was live mapped with me driving to ensure I got the exact map I wanted. Fast forward to my first A4 2.5 TDi and I bought a map - was massivly dissapointed! It was tweeked twice by the supplier and we nearly cracked it then the car was written off....

    I haven't dared venture to mapping again - costs are very high - double my live map cost at £499 for a Revo and its not custom! I was tempted by the trial but it seems to be unavaliable and the 30 day money back guarantee - well, have you tried getting £500 back from anyone!

    Chris
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  15. Scott.T
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    Scott.T Member

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    [Oct 23, 2012]
    Thanks for the additional information Rick.
    I assume then that the fuel economy takes a bit of a dive after a remap. Unlike the Subaru's where they actually get a bit more economical (except when driven hard), as they run quite rich as standard so get leaned out in the midrange and top end during a remap.

    Interesting what you say about the Bosch ECU. Are all B7 running Bosch as I notice it uses a Hitachi MAF ?
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  16. Scott.T
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    Scott.T Member

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    [Oct 23, 2012]
    Who mapped your Impreza then Chris, as I may know them or know of them.
    I was doing it as a commercial part time business for about 3 years. But primary work and family commitments caused me to stop. I now only do my own (still have a Scooby) or close friends.

    I've only has the Audi 2 weeks, so early days and just getting to know what and where all the sensors are first.
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  17. Chris79
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    Chris79 On my 3rd A4! RS4 next???

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    [Oct 24, 2012]
    Hi Scott, you will know of him - Simon Roe. We achieved fantastic results.

    I have an Impreza in the garage too, not that it runs! I bought a rolling shell and have been reassembling for the last year.

    Chris
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  18. Craig Cull
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    Craig Cull Well-Known Member

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    [Oct 24, 2012]
    Like I said in the post, others may be more precise. Wasn't sure on exact power gains. If I was wasting my money on remapping the standard set up, I would be wanting atleast 280, otherwise I would be going k04. ( I have a k04 on eBay by the way) considering my mates golf gti is running 280 with a ko3s I would say it is achievable with the right map, and as for the turbo on its knees.... It's been going sound for a year with no engine or turbo failure yet.
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  19. Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev.
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    [Oct 24, 2012]
    Hi Scott,

    The fuel economy doesn't really change. It will be worse if you are using the power, but normal driving won't as it only enriches on full boost. Part throttle it will stay at 14.7:1. On a std car it will enrich if you accelerate through the gears - often more than it needs to - , but for short stints it won't.

    All B7's use Bosch ECU's apart from 170 Diesels which use Siemens. You can have both Hitachi and Bosch MAF's on a Bosch ECU.

    Rick

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  20. Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev.
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    [Oct 24, 2012]
    Hi Chris, custom maps for the TFSI are £400 from myself.

    In terms of trial, I am working on something myself for the future, but in the mean time for a forum member I would be happy to map the car and you drive it for a week to see if you are happy, with payment after this period.

    Thanks, Rick
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  21. Scott.T
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    Scott.T Member

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    [Oct 24, 2012]
    Yep, I know Simon quite well as we used to work at the same engineering firm a few years back.
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  22. Scott.T
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    Scott.T Member

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    [Oct 24, 2012]
    Do you have to stick with a Bosch Lambda if it's using a Bosch one and Hitachi if using Hitachi or can you interchange them.
    Reason for asking is I'm chasing a misfire and am changing the MAF (currently on a Hitachi)
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  23. Chris79
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    Chris79 On my 3rd A4! RS4 next???

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    [Oct 25, 2012]
    Seems fair Rick!

    Maybe after Christmas.

    Chris
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  24. Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev.
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    [Oct 25, 2012]
    Usually, yes as Bosch/Hitachi are OE suppliers which means they don't often make an after market version of the others if that makes sense! Regarding the missfire, it's unlikely to be a MAF. Can you capture the missfire in a log? When does it do it?

    Rick
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  25. Scott.T
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    Scott.T Member

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    [Oct 25, 2012]
    Very light throttle, almost no throttle most noticable around 1700rpm - 2200rpm.
    A touch more throttle and it clears, the same with a touch less throttle.
    Almost no deflection in revs or throttle angle and it clears.

    If you hold the throttle in the same postion but at slightly higher revs i.e around 2800rpm you can still induce the missfire.

    WOT from 1200rpm will drive right through dead smooth.
    Likewise if it is sitting at 2,000rpm and missfiring, a WOT or any more throttle from then and it pulls strong right through rev range.

    Plugs that came out were all the same colour, maybe a touch dark for something that runs so much at 14AFR, coil packs also new (missfire was present prior to both these changes)
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  26. razza1
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    razza1 Well-Known Member

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    [Oct 26, 2012]
    They are definitely worth remapping, but go the full hog and go stage 2 as it makes a massive difference to the car. More cost obviously but with a new exhaust and filter you also get a much nicer noise to go with the power :)
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  27. Scott.T
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    Scott.T Member

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    [Nov 12, 2012]
    OK, from measurements I have taken the car's reading approx 11psi (0.75bar) peak dropping to 6psi (0.4bar).
    The peak at 11psi comes in very early and soon tails off.
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  28. Marrow
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    Marrow Member

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    [Nov 13, 2012]
    I have the same issues never tracked it down just learnt to live with it! If u track it down let me know mate!
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  29. Scott.T
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    Scott.T Member

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    [Nov 13, 2012]
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  30. Morgan46
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    [Nov 15, 2012]
    I looked into a revo re-map at Clev atthowes in norwich and it should take my 220bhp se a4 to around 265 !
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  31. Morgan46
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    Morgan46 Member

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    [Nov 15, 2012]
    clive atthowes^^^^
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  32. Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev.
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    Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev. Site Sponsor Site Sponsor

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    [Nov 16, 2012]
    You're not going to get 265 from just the remap, you'll need a few bolt ons :)

    Rick
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  33. Morgan46
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    Morgan46 Member

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    [Nov 16, 2012]
    That's what they said?which bolt ons would I need ?whsts the difference between 197 and 220 bhp models is it just the boost pressure?
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  34. Marrow
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    [Nov 17, 2012]
    A few people have seen more with just a map in the past? I forget the members name but he had a remap by pendale performance and had a rr graph showing just over 270 if I remember correctly?
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  35. Scott.T
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    Scott.T Member

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    [Nov 18, 2012]
    What does a Stage one run, would be good to see if any maps run much different.
    My guess is 1.2bar ow end and 1bar top end.

    What does the BlueFin run Vs' the others ?
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  36. Marrow
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    [Nov 18, 2012]
    Mines stage one not sure in bar but it's peaking around 15.5 psi on a cold day? That's using torque android app on my phone
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  37. Scott.T
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    Scott.T Member

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    [Nov 18, 2012]
    cheers Marrow.
    What does it hold to the redline as the standard levels are so low their hardly worth having at about 5 psi.
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  38. Jackie Brown
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    [May 6, 2013]
    Old thread, but TFSI doesn't run 14.7 AFR at WOT. 2.0TFSI 200hp 'AXX' Lambda 0.9532 until 4520RPM where it requests 0.9063. BTS usually kicks in around 3000RPM giving around 0.7 lambda to redline (0.7891 down to 0.7110). The second Component Protection (BTS) map drops right down to 0.6407 Lambda which is very RICH for standard software, to protect the engine under load.

    Only real way to see exact AFR is to connect VCDS and log requested vs actual lambda. MED9.1 is already wideband (same sensor as innovate LSU4.2, I have been told), so you can trust the fuel read with datalogging.


    They also don't have EGT sensor. There is no way to monitor EGT through OBD, no probe fitted as standard. Some older 1.8T have though ;)
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  39. Jackie Brown
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    Jackie Brown Member

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    [May 6, 2013]
    Ahh, Rick write.. ''The fuel economy doesn't really change. It will be worse if you are using the power, but normal driving won't as it only enriches on full boost. Part throttle it will stay at 14.7:1''


    This is true for pt throttle (driver request) to certain RPM. Under 50% throttle it should keep lambda 1.0 (approx 14.7.1 AFR)
    #38

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