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whats the best turbo for achieving 400 bhp or should i just go hybrid

mclean1988 Sep 17, 2012

  1. mclean1988

    mclean1988 Member

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    hey all,

    i am taking my car off the road shortly and i am looking to upgrade the turbo , i hope to achieve around 400BHP and was wondering which turbo is best for this, i understand that it isnt down to the turbo alone and all the ancilliaries will need to be upgraded as such.

    The problem is i dont want to end up spending a **** load of money and only end up gettin say 30 bhp more than hybrid because ive chosen then wrong kit etc !

    also has anyone ran the 1.9tdi crank for long, i understand this is a way to increase the stroke but is it good for reliablity etc ??

    Cheers for any help
     
  2. Sevv

    Sevv Pushing the limits..

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    dont go hybrid many guys are having issues, just get a gt28 or gtx3071 or something
     
  3. superkarl

    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    t3 gt3071/76 will prob net you 400.
     
  4. Sam_

    Sam_ Down under

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    That'd be more than capable ;)
     
  5. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    Andrew has had a fairly iffy time with a tdi crank and personally I think normal stroker is more than enough...

    GT3076r flows a little too much too soon on a 1.8 so would need a stroker to make the best out of it although it can be mapped accordingly and have seen good results... nicest setup I have seen to date is a normal 2008cc stroker (TFSI crank) with TSR tubular v-band mani, GT3071r with a billet comp wheel and 0.82 Tial v-band hotside... a nice easy 450+hp which 20psi of boost at 3.5k rpm

    To get this sort of power (anything beyond a hybrid tbh) will cost money to do right... all the high power builds I have seen have had proper built engines including full valve train etc (not cams though), tubular manifolds and large inlets so not a cheap option... I have learnt the hard way that if you want power then you have to do it right...

    Its not just about the largest turbo to do the job as if the rest of the engine can't do anything with the airflow you could bolt a GT35 on to it and still only make hybrid power...

    <tuffty/>
     
  6. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    HTA3017 on tial hotside, external gate........ :D
    Stroker ftw also plot below is the one Tufftys describing

    spool nearly like k04 but muchos power/torque band...

    [​IMG]
     
  7. vroomtshh

    vroomtshh Active Member

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    Bill,

    What would be a sort of rough cost to take a stage 2 car, and take it to the above figures? A drive in/drive out conversion.
     
  8. mclean1988

    mclean1988 Member

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    hey bill ,

    thanks for the p**n , can you clarify how this was stroked i.e crank type piston size?? and where the turbo was purchased ?? if you know, again your input in the matter is greatly appreciated
     
  9. Sevv

    Sevv Pushing the limits..

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    Mate simples bager5 is an IE. Dealer get urself a 9:1 comp ratio pistons 83mm bore some tuscan riffle rods 2.0 fsi vw crank as tuffty said the rest tubular maifold and a gtx3071r or so ull be smiling. Thats what im going through atm
     
  10. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    a few sellers of HTA, Forced Performance in US...
    Pagparts can also supply a billet gt30... and tial hotside etc etc..

    2ltr stroker tsfi crank, 83mm pistons
    guys build thread is on scn>> James' LCR - 2008cc Stroker HTA GT3071r! BIG Turbo Build - SEAT Cupra.net - SEAT Forum

    happy reading

    as for parts etc to do this, I am indeed an IE supplier who can supply much of the required hardware
    Engine build 1st, then turbo spec...

    power is dependant on budget as always..
     
  11. Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev.

    Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev. Site Sponsor Site Sponsor

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    400hp, 2871R woks beautifully :)

    Rick
     
  12. StaceyS3

    StaceyS3 Well-Known Member

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    Basically identical to what mine will be :)

    Just need a crank now.....if anyone knows of any for sale (shameless plug) lol ;)
     
  13. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    Beg to differ....

    <tuffty/>
     
  14. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    Really..
    never seen one manage that
     
  15. Andrew@A.L.D

    Andrew@A.L.D May add NOS to 600+bhp S3.

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    The only problem i have had with the stroker kit and TDI crank is my choice of piston rings

    I kept on using Total seal rings with the JE pistons and have had nothing but problems with them, I have now swapped to JE pro seals that came with the pistons

    With the TDI crank you will need to machine the pistons s they hit the oil jets
     
  16. Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev.

    Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev. Site Sponsor Site Sponsor

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    743347-1&2comp.jpg

    It's a 450bhp rated turbo, so you may have other issues if you are struggling to hit 400 :)

    Rick
     
  17. beachbuggy

    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

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    450bhp ?? You reading that as 45lb/min at 65% efficiency?

    A pr of 2.5 at 72-74% gives around 375bhp. Surely that's a true value..
     
  18. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    Doesn't mean anything in reality... not seen one get past 380hp on a 1.8 20v even with every bolt on accessory known to man... on a 2ltr stroker or larger capacity engine then maybe...

    <tuffty/>
     
  19. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    lol

    its on a comp chart so must be true...

    ;)

    how many have you actually done? dyno's would be interesting to see....
     
  20. Jason.s

    Jason.s Active Member

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    Didnt Alex`s (AKS) old Ibiza end up close to the 400 figure? Although i never did see a final figure before it got stripped.
     
  21. Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev.

    Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev. Site Sponsor Site Sponsor

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    A couple, they weren't on 1.8's but on 2 litre's.

    It's worth noting that Garrett rate it officially to 450bhp. Granted, it's working hard, but certainly worth considering for a responsive engine.

    Rick
     
  22. Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev.

    Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev. Site Sponsor Site Sponsor

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    Not quite but I like your thinking!

    The efficiency is a measure of how much heat is placed into the gas when compressed. The higher the efficiency, the cooler the air. However, we have intercoolers which help to get most of this heat back out. But greater efficiency does mean an otherwise smaller intercooler can be used.

    Rick
     
  23. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    yes, on a maha dyno, same as backdrafts 400bhp 2871 kits
    look closer and see the 340atw figures however, and the 100bhp rolling losses added to make the >400bhp number
    Hmmmmm

    370-380bhp max'd on 1.8t 2bar, runnning effing hot, on 0.63 hotside
    spool much like the GT30... which is'nt working its nadgers off to achieve the same numbers.... I know which I would prefer.

    Never yet seen a 2871 manage more than high 300's......... not even on stroker on 0.86 hotside (380bhp from memory)
     
  24. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    There are 4 variants of GT2871 listed on the Garrett website each with different power ratings and are for engine 1.8ltrs to 3ltrs
    [​IMG]

    Whatever rating it suggests will always be subject to what you bolt it on to and its setup... in context this discussion revolves around a 1.8 20v... not seen 400hp from a 1.8 20v with a GT2871...

    <tuffty/>
     
  25. dingo8

    dingo8 Member

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    are these any good on the 1.8t ?

    GTX2863R / GTX2867R / GTX2860R
     
  26. Jason.s

    Jason.s Active Member

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    Good old Marlin`s.. I`ve seen it over read on my gf`s old 3 MPS but then others swear by it to be really accurate.

    All i know is they strapped a 6MPS down to the rollers by opening the back doors and putting a strap across the back seats, car kicked out when he let off at top end and the guy nearly soiled his pants lol. Same day put a TT on with haldex still running and wondered why the graph was all over the place...
     
  27. RaulQTS

    RaulQTS Member

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    Anyone used the 2nd gen gtx2867r or gtx2871r could I get 400 bhp and 400ftlb with rods and no vale train work ?
     
  28. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    Doubt very much you would get 400ftlb (400ftlb equates to 533hp @ 7000rpm for example)... 400hp @ 7200rpm requires 291ftlbs... so 400ftlb (if actually plausible) would be at a fairly low rpm and drop off substantially..

    You would need to consider doing exhaust valves and springs at the very least... these are failing almost as often as rods...

    If planning to use the GTX28's externally gated with a tubular merge collector manifold then 400hp could happen.. if internally gated T25 then not so much

    <tuffty/>
     
  29. RaulQTS

    RaulQTS Member

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    Been told eurocarparts exhaust valves are solid filled any thoughts?
     
  30. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    Don't buy valves from ECP dude... so much fail... OE valves for turbo 20v's are sodium filled... ECP and GSF generally sell solid valves suited to NA applications... DO NOT use these on a turbo engine as they WILL fail :)

    You want at the very least supertech inconel triple groove exhaust valves and Cat Cams gold springs... also get the valve guides checked and replaced as required... exhaust guides will have worn... inlets should be ok but doesn't hurt to check... std inlet valves are ok for this application

    <tuffty/>
     
  31. NIGE28

    NIGE28 Active Member

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    A gt2871r will get you 400bhp ;)
     
  32. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    Subject to mods etc... not all are equal... yours was more an exception than a rule..

    Tubular mani helped yours...

    <tuffty/>
     
  33. NIGE28

    NIGE28 Active Member

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    Just saying as mentioned it wasn't possible lol and on 1.8t
     
  34. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    You said in your post that it 'will' get you 400hp... reality is very different so your statement would be more accurate if you said it 'may' get you 400hp...

    Never said its impossible... but it is improbable...

    <tuffty/>
     
  35. hydro s3

    hydro s3 S3 amk Team Ming Blue Audi S3

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    What about the ko4-380 hybrid turbo package that badger 5 sells? Does it not say that 400bhp was possible with that. Obviously with supporting mods like rods,inconel exhaust valves, cat gold exhaust springs. Would that not see the figures ur after?
     
  36. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    You will note its sold as a , and I quote>>> "Power Range 340-380bhp ** Subject to spec of supporting mods." <<<

    Yes we've got more out of it on our lupo AUM motor, 402bhp, but this is a well modded unique build. It proves whats possible, and it has +30bhp more than its previous hybrid
     
  37. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    hmmm.
    seen plenty that wont (on my dyno at least) 0- stick it on a maha and yes.. more than likely see that number - :p
     
  38. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    Genuine or Inconel (supertech)

    Avoid after market valves from the likes or Euro/ECP
     
  39. JonnyDerv

    JonnyDerv Active Member

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    I'm at 420bhp 390lbs ft on a gtx2867r that's with cams and vernier pulley. I managed 404bhp 390lbs ft without cams and at a slightly lower boost.

    From what I've heard, there's not really much difference in the gen1 and gen2, the compressor maps are very similar apparently.
     
  40. superkarl

    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    Red = Gen 1
    Blue = Gen 2
    +5% flow based on the compressor maps.
    Better surge line
     

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