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What would you do?

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by joost, Jan 7, 2006.

  1. joost
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    joost Active Member

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    [Jan 7, 2006]
    Apologies in advance for the length of this post but got this from another forum i'm on and wondered what you fellas would do. The bloke that posted it heard it on the radio, what does everyone think?

    A fella was sitting at the line on a dual carrageway waiting for the traffic lights to change to green. After about 5 mins still no change and he starts to wonder. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif After 10mins still red. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif Finally with something like 40/50 cars behind him and drivers flashing their lights and telling him to go, he decides to proceed across the junction with care, as obviously the lights have broken. It's 8.25pm and the junction is busy but not congested except for the cars behind him so he drives forward very carefully, as does the car beside him, and crosses the junction. Sure enough (FLASH FLASH) the camera takes it's piccies and 7 days later he gets 3 points and a £60 fine. He contests this in court with his solicitor present.

    His argument was:
    1. At what point do you make the decision to cross a faulty traffic light as the lights were obviously not working correctly?
    2. Would he have got points and a fine even if an emergency vehicle was approaching and needed to pass?
    3. There is nothing in the highway code to advise or describe the situation he was faced with, so surely common sense and care would prevail?

    All 3 were thrown out by the magistrate and the traffic divison and he WAS prosecuted, given a £180 fine but stil 3 points. Which leaves the questions: What are you actually supposed to do? When do you actually make the decision to cross when the lights have become faulty?

    Waddaya think?

    I'll give you the replies that the driver got to these questions in a couple of days when I've been on the other forum (not gonna be near me pooter till Sunday) but you'll probably get it right before then!

    The driver did say that other cars followed him and he could see the camera flash again. But he's positive it didn't flash all of them! And to top it all off, the car beside him that went across with him could not be prosecuted as its number plate was half obscured by this fella's car because the other car pulled away first!
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  3. Soupie69uk
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    Soupie69uk Owner

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    [Jan 7, 2006]
    I would be gutted because I am so impatient and hate sitting at traffic lights.

    I doubt the guy was sitting there fir ten minutes that would seem like a life time.

    I would take the risk and just pay the fine because I would know that I was in the wrong and if there had been a fault they would have probably admitted it.

    Cheers.
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  4. TDI-line
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    TDI-line Uber Post Whore

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    [Jan 7, 2006]
    I'd have probably done the same thing, and pressed my button on the dash to flip the number plate of my DB5.
    #3
  5. imported_fingermouse
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    imported_fingermouse Guest

    [Jan 7, 2006]
    [ QUOTE ]
    I'd have probably done the same thing, and pressed my button on the dash to flip the number plate of my DB5.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    wouldn`t you use the stealth mode ????
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  6. TDI-line
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    TDI-line Uber Post Whore

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    [Jan 7, 2006]
    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    I'd have probably done the same thing, and pressed my button on the dash to flip the number plate of my DB5.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    wouldn`t you use the stealth mode ????

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Could of done i suppose if i was in my Vanquish, but then i think i would have targeted the camera with my automatic machine guns hidden with the front grill.
    #5
  7. dummi
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    dummi smoking a6

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    [Jan 7, 2006]
    if i were familiar with the routine of those lights on that particular weekday at that time of day i'd cross if it were obvious, but if not i would wait, longest i have waited at some lights is 30mins on red,
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  8. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 7, 2006]
    "longest i have waited at some lights is 30mins on red"
    You are having a laugh surely? Lucky for you I wasn't stuck behind you.

    I wouldn't even have waited as long as 10 minutes, 5 minutes max. 2 minutes seems like a lifetime.
    The camera would've been visible so I would've then got out of the car and temporarily obscured my number plate and then proceeded with caution.
    This is just typical of the impartiality of camera technology where common sense goes out the window. More reason that we all need camcorders in the car like a flight recorder to provide some real evidence if it goes to court.
    Crazy!
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  9. jdp1962
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    jdp1962 Grumpy Old Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 7, 2006]
    I'd have let someone behind me go first, to test it out.
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  10. FactionOne
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    FactionOne Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 7, 2006]
    I'd have phoned 192 (well, 118 somethin or other) and got the number for the nearest Rozzers. But then maybe I'm a little too paranoid /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif - because I can only have 6 points on my licence and my insurance is about £1400 on a 1.6 Sport.

    Regards,

    Rob.
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  11. DaveACQ20v
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    DaveACQ20v Member

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    [Jan 7, 2006]
    Why didn`t his soliciter get a letter from the traffic light repair company admitting that there was a fault on the lights at that time! They should have it on record that the lights were repaired shortly after the incident took place.
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  12. dummi
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    dummi smoking a6

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    [Jan 7, 2006]
    [ QUOTE ]
    "longest i have waited at some lights is 30mins on red"
    You are having a laugh surely? Lucky for you I wasn't stuck behind you.

    [/ QUOTE ]


    :d actually true, i didn't trust the traffic situation , which is different from the situation above where its more a case of the light holding you back...
    #11
  13. medicineman
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    medicineman Member

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    [Jan 8, 2006]
    Problem is fault or not you can not go through a red light. Same with emergency vehicles. Similar case in Sheffield where a guy went thru a red to let an ambulance past, flash, got 3 points and 60 quid and the insurance companies do not like the code, its considered alot worse than speeding. I think it got turned over on appeal though but what a ball ache. One option would have been for the court to find him guilty but not to fine him or award any points on his licence. But as others have said it typical of the all camera and no discretion or common sense been used. Scrap the lights, get roundabouts in the traffic flows better.

    .
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  14. joost
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    joost Active Member

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    [Jan 11, 2006]
    Sorry, it's taken longer than anticipated but here are the responses to the questions (on original post):

    The magistrate said..

    1. There is no rule regarding the amount of time elapsed before you can cross any red light, because the answer is simply that you can't, period! A red means stop and even the quietest of junctions will still have the importance of a major junction or even a railway crossing junction.
    2. Even in the event of a emergency vehicle wanting to pass, you still can't cross a red light, its their job to go around you. If you were to cross then you would still be prosecuted, you are in no way allowed to drive through a red light.
    3. The highway code instructs on driving by the laid out rules only, and crossing a red light is not one of them.

    After all the penaties were given out, the driver was told 'if this ever happens to you again, you can take the option of a U turn (but only if safe and possible to do so without crossing through the red light) or you put your hazard lights on and call 999 for assitance'.

    If the lights are actually OFF and not working at all but there's still a camera, by law you are allowed to cross but with caution etc. As all the lights are off, all traffic has an equal right of way.
    If the lights are OFF and you get flashed, dont do nothing until or if you get a penalty notice, then go to your local police station and explain, and you'll get the help in overturning the notice.

    This poor fella's day got even worse though! He'd just dropped off his mother in Newport, Wales, and returned home to Bristol. A couple of hours later he got a phone call to say his mother had been taken seriously ill because she had left her medication in his car so he had to get back there ASAP. On the way, he went over the Severn Bridge with 4 speed cameras within a distance of around 10 miles. All 4 cameras clocked him at 91-98 mph and within 4 days he got the penalty notices. He ended up banned for a year with a £240 fine because each camera was 3 points!

    What a bummer!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
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  15. Anito
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    Anito Member

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    [Jan 12, 2006]
    Interesting stuff and I have to say I would have proceeded across the lights also.

    I have no sympathy for him getting a ban though. Having passed the first camera he should have slowed down. If the mediacation was that important a visit to the hospital would have been more appropriate.
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  16. mandyray
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    mandyray Member

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    [Jan 12, 2006]
    [ QUOTE ]
    This poor fella's day got even worse though! He'd just dropped off his mother in Newport, Wales, and returned home to Bristol. A couple of hours later he got a phone call to say his mother had been taken seriously ill because she had left her medication in his car so he had to get back there ASAP. On the way, he went over the Severn Bridge with 4 speed cameras within a distance of around 10 miles. All 4 cameras clocked him at 91-98 mph and within 4 days he got the penalty notices. He ended up banned for a year with a £240 fine because each camera was 3 points!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Interesting thread but is this last bit honestly true? If so, why wouldn't you just call an ambulance for her? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/noidea.gif
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  17. joost
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    joost Active Member

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    [Jan 12, 2006]
    Have to admit, I was sceptical about the last bit too. I've only relayed what I found out. Quite honestly, if the last bit is true, he deserved everything he got. As you say, common sense would dictate calling an ambulance.
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  18. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 12, 2006]
    Speed cameras on the bridge??? GASP !!!

    I hope it wasnt the old one, as i never use the new one, and i use the thing all the time as i am only a few mins the welsh side
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  19. The Slug
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    The Slug Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 13, 2006]
    Well as JPO knows around our way we have loads of bloody TL's and a few that stop on red for no reason whats so ever, i just drive thru em if there stuck on for ages, especially when traffics backing onto islands where no1 can move, its a joke sometimes, they should have 'Problem with these lights, Phone xxxx' on em with a REF no. so they can sort it out, save the companies time, im sure ppl wud ring em up if there was a problem.
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  20. johnnywb
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    johnnywb Member

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    [Jan 15, 2006]
    as far as i'm aware, they can't put cameras on bridges as bridges flex in the wind and with different weather condidtions, causing distances to change etc, leading to erronous readings. They used to have cameras on the Avonmouth Bridge, but removed them after failed prosecutions. Now they're just on the approaches
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  21. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 15, 2006]
    The could still use SPECs camera's on a bridge as they don't use any form of speed reading other than time & distance.
    They'll never let someone off this type of incident as it will then become a test case and everyone will start inventing reasons to justify speeding.
    Just another reason why camera's will only ever provide a revenue stream rather than anything related to road safety.
    #20

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