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What remaps can you get for 2.5 TDI?

Discussion in 'A4/A4 cabriolet/S4 forum(B6 chassis)' started by reggieroo, Aug 19, 2010.

  1. reggieroo
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    reggieroo Member

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    [Aug 19, 2010]
    What sort of power gains can you get from the 2.5 V6 TDI?

    Been looking at an A6 with the 2.5 in & found different bhp models, 155, 163 & 180.

    I was wondering would it matter which one you bought if you were planning a remap? Also I've read that a remap will give you better MPG so if you started with the 155bhp model would it retain the better mpg figures than say the 180 model even after a remap.
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  3. BahnStormer77
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    BahnStormer77 BahnStormer

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    [Aug 19, 2010]
    which model / gearbox / drivetrain?

    A4 B6 FWD = 163bhp remappable to around 180-190bhp*
    A4 B6 Quattro = 180bhp reasonable remappable to around 200-220bhp**

    Because of the drive-trains, then even at a 180bhp remap, the FWD is likely to get slightly better mpg.

    * you will run into various contstraints: Multitronic (FWD) is not recommended for ANY remaps at all as they really struggle with the standard torque, the manual version is a better option, but the first limit you hit will probably be temps due to the single intercooler...and also traction: that much torque through the fronts....

    **auto on these is more reliable: regular automatic, they didn't even bother trying to put a multitronic between 300lb/ft of torque and a quattro drivetrain!! Twin intercooler. First limit you are likely to run into at/around 220bhp is that you'll be pushing 340lb/ft torque, so the clutch will start to take a lot of strain if you're not allowing it to engage properly before giving it the beans. There are some good "eco" maps and tuning boxes around 200-210bhp, but still not as economical as the FWD regardless of the map. Likewise, the auto-box will start taking strain around 200-220bhp, but there are some people running 220bhp on auto's without a problem. I believe that on a remap alone, you can get 240bhp, but budget for a new clutch if you want to use that!

    If you're after economy + power, look at a 1.9TDI quattro remapped to 175-180bhp.... I think they're twin intercooler 'cos they're based on the TDI130... and a lot lighter... but loads of torque and very, very good economy too.
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2010
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  4. reggieroo
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    reggieroo Member

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    [Aug 19, 2010]
    Thanks for the info but I'm actually looking at an A6 (C5) Avant 2.5TDI tiptronic Quattro 180. I'm sure they don't do a A6 1.9 Quattro & I want Quattro.

    We live in a village & roads can get quite flooded with rain + when icy they don't grit roads round here until you get on a main road. Last year we were stuck in because of the snow, tried to take out the 1.9TDI A4 FWD but couldn't even get it back on my drive. The misses will be using it to drive to work so I want it to be safe as possible on the road. The Quattro is one reason why I'm leaning more to an Audi A6 than a BMW 5 series tourer.

    I want to add a little more power but also economy is an issue for the misses & it will be a shared car so need to compromise.
    I've considered the 4.2V8 with an LPG conversion but want to know what I can do with a 2.5TDI as then I won't have to fork out for an LPG conversion on a V8.
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  5. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 19, 2010]
    I would make shure the car is in good order before the re-map and make shure the cambelt has been replaced with quality belt- make shure its not a Dayco belt fitted as it will snap sooner or later- it happened to my avant 2 weeks ago ! Make shure the water pump and tensioners/relay rollers are also replaced at the cambelt time + fit a new thermostat if you get them done by a specialist. Power wise, the a6 in manual avant shape is like a "fat balerina", it will be slow to pick-up but will go like clappers when on boost. I have a Steinbauer tuning box fitted on me avant and it does shift ! i use mine for towing and believe me it does tow at 100Mph me twin axle trailer with 1.5 tonnes car on it without breaking a sweat ! Fuel ecconomy is decent for a 1750kg machine but you do feel the weight. Me b5 v6 tdi avant quattro does rings round the a6 but the a6 its much more safe and confortable car to be in. However i dont like the way the ESP takes control of the car when things go tits-out as i do like to be in control not the gizzmos. Traction is no issue with the quattro but stopping is so remember that it's a very heavy car ! If you can i would really look at a manual version of the a6 as the tiptronic box is quite sluggish and saps fuel but its very strong compared with the automatic boxes fitted on FWD models...
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  6. BahnStormer77
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    BahnStormer77 BahnStormer

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    [Aug 19, 2010]
    sorry - didn't read that properly...

    didn't they replace the 2.5TDI with a 2.7TDI in the late C5's? better fuel economy and same remap potential....

    I'm hearing you on the quattro - amazing in the snow, but getting winter compound tyres makes an even bigger difference....
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  7. clough103
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    clough103 Member

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    [Aug 19, 2010]
    when i keep reading these threads i keep wondering why i bought the 2.5 lol. A Chipped 1.9tdi 130 gives more power and torque and more economy too. Seems daft to buy a 2.5 really. It makes a much nicer sound but is a higher cost and servicing price and 10-15mpg drop and less power really worth it for a better noise lol
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  8. quattrojames
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    quattrojames Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Aug 20, 2010]
    That may apply to the 163 model, but not the 180 model I wouldn't say. They will remap to 210 straight away, you'd be hard pressed to get that from just a remap on a 1.9.....
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  9. clough103
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    clough103 Member

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    [Aug 20, 2010]
    Yes i thought that also originally, the 163 should map close to 190/200 but keep reading this is not recommended on the multitronic box :s
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  10. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 20, 2010]
    I would not believe every quote you get from mappers regarding how the pd remapps to 180+ ! I've just sold a tunned skoda superb with PD 150 injectors, PD 150 turbo, bigger intercooler and Aligator re-map and that only mustered 178Bhp on a Maha dino ! It also had fitted a single mass flywheel and sachs racing clutch just to put the power on the floor... The PD turbo spools quick as its fairly small but runs out of puff at speeds over 100Mph and it feels fast compared to the v6 but when the v6 is on boost then it flies. Its the smooth linear power delivery wich makes the v6 quattro feel slow and the very low 1st and 2nd gear wich they were designed to keep the box in one piece and also to aid traction in bad terain and weather. I would say take a ride in a sorted 180Bhp quattro and you will change your mind soon. Also the later ECU as fitted to the a4 quattro sport do not reaspond that well to tuning as the pump is restricting the flow. The early AKE fitted to pre 2002 a6 avants have 3 plungers in the pump and can fuel a lot. Add a turbo from the 3.0 tdi(GTB 2260VK) and the thing will go to 270-300Bhp. The base block will cope with about 4-500 Bhp just fine. Thing is torque increases direct proportional with Bhp and its the torque you need to watch and the v6 lump will go easily to 500Nm but VAG has no manual box wich can cope with 500Nm + on a daily bassis + the clutch wont stand a chance and will give you pain in your left leg... I do travel a lot on the continent at speeds of 120Mph+ and the v6 is a real motorway cruiser. Push the PD at them speeds and you will see that the difference in fuel consumption became very small + the 4 pots is coarse and noisy at high speeds. I have driven many big engined cars and to say that the v6 tdi is noticeably faster and more ecconomical than for example a v6 NA petrol from the VAG group. Right now i drive a 2.3L Seat toledo V5 petrol with 170Bhp and i would say that my a4 v6 tdi quattro will leave-it for dead from a standing start all the way to 130... and the toledo is a good 200Kg lighter + its front wheel drive. In the wet there would be no comparison mate !
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  11. reggieroo
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    reggieroo Member

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    [Aug 20, 2010]
    So best thing after reading all the comments is to start with 2.5 TDI 180 model yes? What about a 4.2 V8 on LPG, they are 300BHP?
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  12. quattrojames
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    quattrojames Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Aug 20, 2010]
    Not really a fair comparison to be honest! I'm sure even with LPG you won't see much above 25 mpg would you?
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  13. reggieroo
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    reggieroo Member

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    [Aug 20, 2010]
    Well I done some figures on the V8 LPG. The V8 does 21mpg on petrol so knock a few mpg off to say 18mpg on LPG because it doesn't burn so well as petrol & is a little less efficient. Then times 18 x 2 as LPG is half the price of petrol & you get equivalent to 36mpg.
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  14. clough103
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    clough103 Member

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    [Aug 20, 2010]
    not too bad for the power it has

    the 2.5 i have has seen 47mpg driving it right though, and 30 ish around town
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  15. JimLoskot
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    JimLoskot Member

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    [Aug 21, 2010]
    wow, I can get up to about 40mpg on long journeys in the summer although thats cruising around 70, I imagine if you cruised at 60ish then I could get another couple of mpg's.
    Normally I cruise about 80 and get high 30's.
    The 2.5 tdi quattro is a heay car, it doesn't really feels fast because of its size, weight and smoothness.
    Before I had it remapped, it easily out accelerated a friends 1.9tdi remapped passat head to head, although if you drove both cars you would of put money on the remapped 1.9 being faster. Now since its remap its a pleasure to drive. Its a great motorway cruiser/family car.
    TBH tho, I really want a 3.0 tdi quattro now although the bank manager says I'm not allowed :boo:
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  16. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 21, 2010]
    I have driven my a4 tdi quattro within an inch of its life and it would not go lower than 28mpg. Try that with any petrol v6 engine and you will be lucky if you see double digits Mpg figures. Bang for buck i think its the best compromise between power and ecconomy without looking like a cheapskate. 400 to 600 miles for a tankfull + 8 sec nol to 60Mph is decent figures while still being able to cope with a family of 5 and a boot full of luggage while maintenance costs are relatively low. Also there are enough toys to keep you busy and its confortable enough to keep you in the driver seat for 4-6 hours without giving you a backache. Also, if you wanna see what a tunned v6 tdi lump can do with modest modifications(!) then come to N. london and i'll lend you my a4 for a ride then the a6 quattro with a steinbauer chip... you wont be dissapointed even when they are high milleage !
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  17. clough103
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    clough103 Member

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    [Aug 21, 2010]
    i might take you up on that offer. Would like to remap mine but have been told to avoid remapping the multitronic gearbox to avaoid creating problems with it
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  18. BahnStormer77
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    BahnStormer77 BahnStormer

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    [Aug 22, 2010]
    The big difference between the 1.9 and 2.5 (apart from the audible smoothness) is the width of the powerband.... I can easilly believe most 1.9's will remap to 175bhp (I've seen some on rollers that were giving mine 178bhp out the box).... but the 2.5TDI just gives a lovely steady surge of torque from 1200-4500rpm, compared to the PD's "bang in the back" at about 3000rpm...

    Ref 8sec's 0-60.... I'm guessing that low 7's is more likely with any of the remaps referenced above....

    And yes, it's a heavy car: 25kg's heavier than my dad's A6 (2.0TDI).

    Interesting:
    So does that also apply to the early A4 2.5TDI (quattro 180) lumps? If so, what I'm reading is that if my turbo goes, I can replace it with the 3.0's blower... but I'll probably need to budget a replacement (uprated?) clutch shortly thereafter?
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  19. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 23, 2010]
    Dyno's can be made to show whatever the mapper's want trough their "correction factor", the only way to check the real power output is by taking an engine out and fitting it to a dynamometer and measure the output at the crank. Safe increase on stock internals on PD lumps is 30-40 Bhp and yes it can be done but needs a bit more than just a remap... The base engine is similar between the early AFB and AKE engine, later ones just got EGR water cooled and a few extra cooling aids. The main difference is the AKE has alegedly stronger rods to cope with the extra torque and bhp- they are different part numbers though ! There are also a few quttro sports fitted with very rare 3 L blocks wich had a 50-80Nm improved torque and a few more horsepower. I had one of these engines modded on my old a4 tdi and that had 227Bhp with a hybrid turbo, PSI Motorsport chip and Iveco nozzles. Stock clutch is fine as the V6 does have a fairly smooth power delivery but a sachs racing clutch will go fine to about 550Nm but wont slip even when pushed to 600nm. Avoid the sinthered plate clutch as its such a bitch to live with and will make the car a pain to drive ! The GTB2260 will fit almost fine with kust an adaptor plate and a slight mod to the VNT mechanism and will spool from 1300rpm and give better air pressure at high speeds while having less lag than the GT2250 thats allready fitted on the engine.
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  20. 23e Heure
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    23e Heure Member

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    [Aug 23, 2010]
    DUMMIES QUESTION RE REMAPS:

    Do you have to declare this to your insurers?
    If so, how badly does this effect the premiums?

    If you remap your car, does this mean you should forever then use non official Audi Service Centres?
    IE, if you tried to have one service your car after a remap, will they tell you to sling your hook?
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  21. quattrojames
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    quattrojames Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Aug 23, 2010]
    You should declare it to your insurance company to be on the safe side, my tuning box cost me an extra £30. Whether they would ever find out about it in the event of a claim is a matter for you to consider.....

    There's no reason to avoid Audi dealers (should you choose to have your car serviced there) any B6 is going to be out of manufacturers warranty anyway so I can't see it making much difference there.
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