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what are the best anti roll bars?

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by andrew-247, Aug 27, 2012.

  1. andrew-247
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    andrew-247 New Member

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    what anti roll bars are the best? Read that 22mm for the front and 19mm for the rear is ideal. Will be runnning with coilovers and rear adjustable tie arms and front strut braces. Golf mk4 r32 anti roll bars are 23mm front and 19mm rear some people use these but are they as good as eibach, neuspeed ect?

    cheers
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  2. JD09
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    JD09 I'm not modding, I'm improving

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    They're cheaper and appear to be just as good from what I've read. I've just bought the rear R32 but am yet to fit it.
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  3. andrew-247
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    andrew-247 New Member

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    did you buy from a vw dealer? are you going to be running polybushes or standard bushes?
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  4. scotty_24
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    scotty_24 Member

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    I have the eibach kit and can't fault them
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  5. S3quatt
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    S3quatt Flat Oot like a ducks Foot

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    I went with Neuspeed, 22mm front & 19mm rear. Matched with Eibach springs, Bilsteins, & poly bushes & the car handles like it should!

    65k & 9 years old & drives better than it came from the factory!
    #5
  6. ZAS
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    ZAS Member

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    Are the Neuspeed ones stiffer? The way I understand it, the stiffer it is up front the more understeer you'll get, so is that why you go with the 19mm at the back?

    Not really getting the physics on this one. :ermm:
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  7. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    It's not exactly difficult to make an S3 handle better than the factory setup to be honest.
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    S3quatt likes this.
  8. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    This depends on the car. Specifically on the 8L S3 platform, increase the front ARB size will create more understeer, you need to increase the rear proportionally to retain the same characteristics. Just increasing the rear ARB size is suppose to improve turn in, but there's no proof it improves on the limit handling, but the theory is, it should.
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  9. Sevv
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    Sevv Pushing the limits..

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    i have the H&R ones though i have yet to fit them with B14's they're due next week let you guys know the difference cant wait personally
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  10. Buzzer
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    Buzzer Member

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    I was under the impression that 19mm up front and 23mm rear will dial out the current under steer setup? Making it more neutral.
    Rear 19mm arb on it own will induce oversteer?
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  11. ZAS
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    ZAS Member

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    Buzzer, that's exactly why I think they slap the 19mm on the back when putting a bigger one up front, I guess it counteracts the understeer you introduce by making the rear a bit more edgy.
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  12. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    Handling is too subjective to give a definitive answer to this and the OP is non specific over what the definition of 'the best' is...

    So... generally speaking the S3 has 19mm front and 15mm rear ARB's as std... this gives a more understeer bias...

    Upping the thickness of ARB's proportionally will give less roll through corners and over a certian thickness add to the stiffness of the springs (harder ride)...

    Off the back of the std setup... to make the car understeer less and move towards a balanced setup you either reduce the size of the front or increase the of the rear... when the rear is proportionally stiffer than the front then you go from balanced to oversteer... when the front is proportionally stiffer than the rear then you go from balanced to understeer...

    R32 (23mm/19mm) ARB's will provide less roll in the corners but keep the understeer nature of the car... the 22mm/19mm combo thats deemed 'the best' will essentially remove understeer but... this combo was tested by a member of the forum and while there is no reason to doubt his conclusions one mans idea on handling is going to be different to another's... so this should be taken as a guideline...

    <tuffty/>
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2012
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  13. StaceyS3
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    StaceyS3 Well-Known Member

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    The subjectiveness of other peoples preferences and opinions and as well as my judgement on getting ones I'd like first shot, swung the decision for H&R antiroll bars front and back as they both have two sets of holes allowing you to adjust the ratio between front and rear and tailor it to preference

    I put both of mine on the softer setting ( further hole on the bar giving more leverage) but will be trying the rear on the next set of holes in as fancy seeing if it will produce more oversteer :racer: ;)
    #13
  14. TDIQ
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    TDIQ 8L > 8P > 8V

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    I think just an R32 rear is a big improvement on standard. Lots of people have just an R32 rear for this reason.
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  15. Andrew@A.L.D
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    Andrew@A.L.D Cylinder Head Master

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    Just the rear R32 ARB on mine and its fine, no oversteer or understeel but on coilovers so that does help
    #15
  16. S3quatt
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    S3quatt Flat Oot like a ducks Foot

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    Obviously increasing them both allows the car to corner flatter.
    I increased the rear more than the front in order to dial out some of the understeer.
    now the car feels more neutral if it does go in the corners IE. its more likely to drift than push wide if you get my meaning.
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  17. S3quatt
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    S3quatt Flat Oot like a ducks Foot

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    OOOOoooooOOOO!

    LOL!
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  18. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

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    Same here and seems perfect.....;)
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  19. kwistof
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    kwistof South East Events Moderator Regional Rep

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    I have been researching this quiet a lot and reading a lot of the threads and stickies...

    I will be opting for the Neuspeed 22mm Front ARB and using it with the R32 19mm Rear ARB so I can get the 'flattest' cornering.

    Along with my LCR top mounts, AP coilovers, and fully poly bushed - I am hoping that I will end with a perfect set up....I'll report back once it's all fitted around the end of September.
    #19
  20. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

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    I would have thought you are just going to promote stiffer understeer with that setup...
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  21. StaceyS3
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    StaceyS3 Well-Known Member

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    Same thoughts as Dave about that set up?

    Don't suppose you should really take much notice of the thickness's of bar when comparing from manufacturer to manufacturer as one companies 20mm roll bar could be stiffer than anothers 22mm due to different material composition?
    #21
  22. kwistof
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    kwistof South East Events Moderator Regional Rep

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    I was going by what EssThree tested and have read a few other people are running and 22/19 is apparently spot on....

    I may get the Rear R32 ARB, and replace the Front OEM ARB bushes first and see how it goes from there as the Neuspeed Front ARB is around £160ish....

    Just with the Rear R32 ARB upgraded though it will be 19/19 .....I've had my S3 for around 4 years now so I expect that set up will make it handle completely different - I just don't want to be caught out tbh and end up facing the wrong way whilst pressing hard! lol
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  23. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

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    I would certainly try the r32 first, it completely changes the feel of the car...and go from there...:icon_thumright:
    #23
  24. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    Handling is subjective... Ess_Three did some testing and found that F22mm/R19mm suited him
    http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-...mance-testing-day-%96-pt8-anti-roll-bars.html

    After re-reading it I noticed I made a small mistake on the std ARB's and seems the S3 has a 15mm rear not 14mm as I first thought so I'll edit that...

    This would explain why fitting a 19mm rear ARB tends to balance the S3 out handling wise but won't give you flatter handling in the corners as the ARB size would need to go thicker proportionally to achieve that

    <tuffty/>
    #24
  25. kwistof
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    kwistof South East Events Moderator Regional Rep

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    Will do....I'll report back once it's been fitted as my cars feeling a bit floaty at the moment and don't have a huge amount of confidence in the bends..... So New poly bushes, and R32 ARB here I come :)
    #25
  26. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    I just tried to order an R32 ARB from Audi, it's brand prohibited, so I need to go VW to order the part! Surprisingly, they are not that expensive, just under £109 inc vat!, bushes are on top of this price. Kinds of make the Neuspeed 19mm rear ARB pointless, unless you really want it red!?
    #26
  27. JD09
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    JD09 I'm not modding, I'm improving

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    Likewise Joe, I've now ordered from Battersea VW but struggling to get in during their service dptments opening hours, grrrr :(
    #27
  28. andrew-247
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    andrew-247 New Member

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    The r32 isnt as stiff as the neuspeed one is it?
    Tuffy mentioned 'R32 (23mm/19mm) ARB's will provide less roll in the corners but keep the understeer nature of the car...'
    #28
  29. PaulRS3
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    PaulRS3 Well-Known Member

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    Had the R32 Front and rear fitted on last S3. Was a bit of an impulse purchase at the time, as subframe was already off for a replacement /upgrade clutch. So most of the labour was already paid for, it made sense to swap them out, before reassembling.
    #29
  30. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    Eeeerm, they are both 19mm, I can't see how Neuspeed would make theirs from a harder metal? I was just after the rear one.
    #30
  31. firestorm
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    firestorm Member

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    The R32 rear arb mentioned above, is the Mk4 Golf ?
    What the standard retail price for these ?
    Cheers
    #31
  32. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

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    r32mk1
    mk,4chassis
    #32
  33. firestorm
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    firestorm Member

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    Found some more info :
    FRONT:
    1 x 1j0 411 305 AF (FRONT 23MM ARB) £67.58
    2 x 1J0 411 314 T (21MM FRONT RUBBER MOUNT) £4.93 EACH
    2 x 1J0 411 336D (CLIP) £5.50 EACH
    2 x N 101 016 03 (BOLT) £0.80 EACH

    REAR:
    1 x 1J0 511 409 K (REAR 19MM ARB) £89.17
    2 x 8A0 511 439 (ARB CLIP) £4.73 EACH
    2 x 4B0 511 327 Rear ARB Bush £3.27 EACH
    2 x N 010 236 6 (BOLT) £0.62 EACH

    Prices are indicative. Most VW part departments have some flexibility on prices ... so be nice and haggle.
    You may want to go for Powerflex bushes instead.
    #33

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