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Weird one.... Car mysteriously cut out?

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by 1animal1, Mar 23, 2009.

  1. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 23, 2009]
    I was on my way back from work earlier in traffic, clutch pressed and foot on brake.... the car just cut out, i tried to start it and it wouldnt have it at all...just turned over and over

    as i was rolling downhill slightly i managed to bump it back into life, no problems after then? gave it a quick blast up the next bypass and all was fine... funny stuff:shrug:
    #1
  2. voorhees
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    voorhees Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 23, 2009]
    your car is telling you summat Tim
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  3. HTC
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    HTC Active Member

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    [Mar 24, 2009]
    Get the error codes read would be the first place to start.
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  4. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 24, 2009]
    cheers guys.... havent had time to vag it but same thing happend this morning, except not on a hill....took 2 mins of trying to get it started and then it did what it did last week and sat on 1200revs and when booting it, it juddered on max boost

    again did what i did last week and stooped the car, it restarted first time... and all was fine revs as normal and pulling fine.... this is weird, either its the old pack that i put on cylinder 3 last week or another of the new ones i replaced last year...in which case my car is using coil packs like theres no tommorrow!!

    will vag it tonight to try and get a bearing on it...... just hope my freeware picks them up
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  5. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 24, 2009]
    okies ive nipped home to vag it..... only code its flagging is 18010, worth mentioning that when it had itsa episode this morning the EPC light was on when i managed to restart it...once turned off and restarted the apc went off and the revs went back to normal again...

    thinking ignition control module fault maybe?

    on anothwer note vag com is showing fault 00526 on the haldex.... dont think this is related as a search brings up brake light switch fault
    #5
  6. golf
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    golf ***** rent boy VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 24, 2009]
    Sounds like it could be a crankshaft sensor. Had exactly the same symptoms as you on my A4.
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  7. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 24, 2009]
    cheers Golf.... any estimates on price and ease of the job?
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  8. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 24, 2009]
    ok update.... car conked out again in same place as yesterday and managed to bump again, it went when i was coasting to a stop with clutch pressed.

    When i got it started again the revs were high and being maintained, i turned it off and it started first time, although the revs didnt drop and it started to run really weird... this time the APC light and engine management came on, kept restarting it and eventually the APC light went off

    vag com showing this code only but i do only have share version

    VAG-COM Version: Release 311.2-N
    Control Module Part Number: 8N0 906 018 BH
    Component and/or Version: 1.8L R4/5VT 0001
    Software Coding: 10710
    Work Shop Code: WSC 14132
    Additional Info: WAUZZZ8L121014466 AUZ7Z0A2015117
    7 Faults Found:
    18010 - H(²>z¢]!.3PE[y[„zKQb6k…­\E{hñsO.]CHP~8`BH
    P1602 - 35-10 - f - Intermittent
    16706 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
    P0322 - 35-10 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent
    16684 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
    P0300 - 35-10 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent
    16687 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
    P0303 - 35-10 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent
    16486 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
    P0102 - 35-10 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent
    17769 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
    P1361 - 35-10 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent
    16395 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
    P0011 - 35-10 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent

    although i havent researched these codes yet, i cleared them and the engine management light went off

    cant beleive this, sposed to be doing pod this weekend:notme:
    #8
  9. Dani_B19
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    Dani_B19 Audi-sports own special child.

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    [Mar 24, 2009]
    Mate your car isnt wanting to play lately is it, hope you get it fixed in time
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  10. s3_kev
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    s3_kev Stage2'd!!!!!!

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    [Mar 24, 2009]
    sounds like it could be crankshaft sensor causing to cut out but i doubt wether it would cause it to run lumpy and effect the boost, sounds more like mass airflow or something, you sure you havent got any air leaks from where you fitted the tip??? has the problem only happened since then?? also check its still all ok around that area and that you havent knocked anything off in the fitting proces
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  11. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 24, 2009]
    cheers Kev.... ill check in morning mate, any help is good help at the minute....

    here are the faults

    18010/P1602/005634 - Power Supply B+ Terminal 30: Voltage too Low
    16706/P0322/000802 - Engine Speed Sensor (G28): No Signal
    16684/P0300/000768 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
    16687/P0303/000771 - Cylinder 3 Misfire Detected
    16486/P0102/000258 - Mass Air Flow (MAF) (G70): Signal too Low
    17769 - unknown
    16395/P0011/000017 - Bank 1: Camshaft A (Intake): Retard Setpoint not Reached (Over-Advanced)

    any ideas guys..... make it snappy as tommorrow ill be driving a yellow mini with an obvious 'Tara' private plate...man im gonna look majorly camp!!
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  12. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 24, 2009]
    ok just checked the TIP...no obvious issues....

    worth mentioning that i had similar problems last week that an old coil pack resolved on cylinder 3....

    i replaced the battery last year - still giving good voltage with ignition on/off
    MAF changed last year
    DV was checked before i put it back on (OEM DV)
    Sparks were new last March (OEM)
    Air Filter recently changed/ engine oil
    #12
  13. s3_kev
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    s3_kev Stage2'd!!!!!!

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    [Mar 24, 2009]
    have you checked the charge rate of the alternator??
    the battery voltage low could have come from when you were cranking the car over to start it,
    it could possibly be the crank sensor but as i said earlier its unlikely to cause misfire problems etc but the code could have come up once the car cut out, but at the same time what with it not starting after that sounds like a crank sensor fault however that could be to do with the ecu logging a fault with the crank sensor.
    multiple and cylinder 3 misfire is possibly caused by something else then a coil pack seeing as you have changed them already and plugs recently, so could be a fuel issue being caused by the mass air flow readings being incorrect, which is why i think its more likely to be a mass airflow problem, and that could cause the problem with the camshaft sensor as its trying to adjust to the mass air flow incorect readings.
    if it were me id start with a mass airflow sensor and be cautious of the crank sensor possibly change that at the same time to be sure
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  14. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 24, 2009]
    thanks Kev.... think im gonna do the crank sensor first as the MAF issue would cause problems everytime i drive it in theory? the issues only start after it conks out on me and until the last time was cured by stopping and restarting the car

    wheres the best place to source these? worth using europarts or would you recommend OEM?

    with the battery i only checked the voltage when turned off and with engine switched on.... obvious voltage difference was there.... think it was 2-3v increase altho that is from memory and i am getting old:p
    #14
  15. evotista
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    evotista Member

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    [Mar 24, 2009]
    Its unlikely i know but the bit where you talk about the EPC light staying on, and the car running weird, this happened to me recently when my battery finally decided to give up. Admittedly my battery was 7 years old, but was fine until the car had to go and be repaired in a bodyshop, and so was stood still for 3 weeks. But after it came back i had 2/3 instances where the car started but ran very weird and EPC light stayed on. Only by switching off and then restarting did it go away. I replaced the battery and all was good.

    I know you say you've replaced the battery, but have you had any instances since you replaced it where the battery has gone flat...since mine never recovered from going flat.
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  16. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 24, 2009]
    na mate, bat never gone flat at all and when it just turns over theres no reduction in power going to starter motor from the sounds of it.... the light on top of the bat is also green if that makes a difference
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  17. s3_kev
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    s3_kev Stage2'd!!!!!!

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    [Mar 24, 2009]
    what make is the battery, batterys are made up of cells so if one cell goes down then it can cause problems with out the battery sounding like its flat,
    its hard diagnosing problems with out the car lol
    #17
  18. FazS3
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    FazS3 Member

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    [Mar 24, 2009]
    All the best mate, dont have a clue as to what it could be, just hope you sort it asap!!!!
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  19. golf
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    golf ***** rent boy VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 24, 2009]
    I had exactly the same thing Tim. You have a lot of codes there but 16706 is the faulty sensor in question.

    When the crankshaft sensor (may also be referred to as speed sensor - nothing to do with camshaft sensor though) first started to fail, the EPC light would come on and the car used to misfire, the revs used to drop and the car would cut out unless you were very quick on the clutch. This happened a few times but I managed to keep it going, and even if it did stall, I could usually start it up after a few turns.

    A few times however, it would die and then when I would go to start it, it would just turn over but not start. It then needed about an hour before it would start again, and the EPC light would be on and the revs used to sometimes stick at 3500RPM (killed my turbo in the process). I did a bit of research and found out it was the crankshaft sensor despite people telling me otherwise (I'm looking at you Greg from the RAC :whip:).

    It's a fairly simple job to do - on the A4 anyway - but there's a bolt which holds in the sensor to the block and it's very, very tricky to loosen. The actual sensor itself is a black wire with a grey (may be different on S3) electrical connection. It cost me £35 for the sensor and no extra tools were required. I got the part in May 2007 from fcpgroton.com, an American site who deal in VAG cars.

    I didn't have the advantage of a tutorial, but here's one on A4mods.com if you're gonna have a bash yourself.

    Good luck anyway, I'm sure this will cure this problem, God only knows about the others.
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  20. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 24, 2009]
    i know mate:laugh:, the battery says 'GO' on top, apparently its a Vauxhall sourced item with warantee... how could i check for the cells going?

    appreciate ya help on this mate, im going to order the crankshaft sensor tomorrow and hopefully fit it on Thurs afternoon (if Euro or Audi have one in), this will give me time to pick up any other issues before Pod on Sunday

    :thumbsup:

    Tim
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  21. s3_kev
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    s3_kev Stage2'd!!!!!!

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    [Mar 24, 2009]
    go batterys are a gm/vauxhall battery they are usually good batterys so probably still ok if it has the green bit. only reason i asked is as i no of certin batterys that last about 12 months max
    #21
  22. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 24, 2009]
    is there any way to check it.... the green seems very strong, when i bought the car the existing battery was knackered and i ran with thaqt for about a month without these issues

    think the crank sensor has to be first as the symptoms are exactly what Golf had, the misfires should hopefully be sorted by then.... and see if the MAF and Bat raise their heads afterwards

    what do you think Kev?
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  23. s3_kev
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    s3_kev Stage2'd!!!!!!

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    [Mar 24, 2009]
    yep sounds good to me, you have to just bite the bullet with these sort of issues and try to narrow your choices down then see what happens :thumbsup:
    as for checking the battery you can check them with a tool but you'd have to go to a garage to have it checked unless you no someone with one, but even the tools dont always pick up on dead cells from my experience so probably just as well checking charge rate, as i said though go batterys are of good quality so id be suprised if it was faulty
    #23
  24. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 24, 2009]
    i think given the timescales involved ill most likely have a run out to JBS on Friday if the issue is still there after the sensor is replaced.... I have 2 spare coil packs too so worth a try, and still need to fit the chuffin thermostat so may aswell kill 2 birds with one stone.... i take it this sensor is the one at the front of the engine to the right of where the thermostat is, on the other side of the front of the block?
    #24
  25. fingermouse
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    fingermouse thats me

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    [Mar 25, 2009]
    hope you fix it, I doubt its the battery as I ran mine with one that wouldn`t hold charge for more than a week and never got any running issues.
    #25
  26. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 25, 2009]
    woah, Audi want £80 + vat...although they said they will discount 15% as im a regular.... Euro parts want £35+vat but dont know whether they can source quick enough just yet...

    Audi have the item in stock... as a fall back

    Does anyone have any other suggestions? i need the aprt ideally before tommorrow dinnertime to be able to fit it.

    Mechanic i know mentioned that i could have a loose negative to the body? does anyone know where this would be?
    #26
  27. abdus
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    abdus Top Gear VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 25, 2009]
    have you tried murraysdirect? they do next day delivery if ordered before 3pm.
    #27
  28. Caesium
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    Caesium My BM is fixed! VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 25, 2009]
    A loose earth would cause all sorts of havoc, its unlikely its that. you can check it by following the negative lead from the battery and checking its connection to the bodywork.
    MAF failure may cause the car to run like **** but it wouldn't cut out. I ran my car with the MAF disconnected for a while, the car just reverts to a default fuelling plan if i the MAF is faulty. I reckon the crank sensor is probably more like it.
    #28
  29. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 25, 2009]
    Abdus, just rang murrays and ordered, £25+vat + £5 next day delivery

    top man:thumbsup:
    #29
  30. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 25, 2009]
    just need to work out how to get to it without a ramp..... it looks like its bang next to the oil filter on Golf's link..... id guess this would have to be from the bottom....i will be removing the thermostat at the same time though so im hoping i can get to it after removing all those parts.....
    #30
  31. abdus
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    abdus Top Gear VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 25, 2009]
    murrays is excellent and very friendly people there. I usually get all my stuff from them.

    good luck and hope the problem gets sorted
    #31
  32. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 25, 2009]
    Back on the pod list you go....


    LMAO
    #32
  33. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 25, 2009]
    if it doesnt work Mark im gonna be there strangling you for making that comment:laugh:
    #33
  34. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 25, 2009]
    Meh !!

    Wouldnt be the first.lol

    GL with it, it deffo sounds to be the crank sensor. I actually have a spare one for both the A3 and the A4 just in case. How anal is that ??

    lol
    #34
  35. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 25, 2009]
    certainly is dedication for ya!!! haha, would the A3 spare fitted mine per chance? if so boooo:salute:

    cant really see it being anything else, the codes are confooosing... however the symptoms are exactly what everyone else suffers from when the CS goes... fingers, toes etc crossed
    #35
  36. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 25, 2009]
    Prob would actually, hers is a 1.8tqs 180 bhp ARY engine. I am sure its more of a facelift or not facelit type thing on the connectors
    #36
  37. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 25, 2009]
    ahhhh, well no love lost, i got a bargain!! be interesting to know the diff between OEM and none OEM.... i dont usually trust aftermarket stuff but when theres a bit of a question mark over the solution and a part almost a third of the price... stands to reason
    #37
  38. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 26, 2009]
    ok update.......

    fitted the thermostat today with only a medium extension and 10mm ratchet, i just removed an 8mm nut under the alternator which removed a wire which allowed me to get to the elusive screw... wasnt easy but i didnt have an elbow joint for the ratchet so had to make do.

    Fitted the crank sensor from Murray's after having to drill the hole for the screw a tad wider, once fitted the car took about 6 turn overs before it started, it flagged the engine light which i cleared through Vagcom, then it wouldnt start again... replaced the old one and it started first time..... clearly murrays sent me wrong part and ive wasted £39 (not £35 i was quoted inc postage), gonna ring them tomorrow although not hopeful as there a disclaimer once you open the box and break their seal...annoys me cos i clearly stated BAM engine for 2002 S3.... mechanic i know is going to source a bosch item 2moz...

    I ran it with the cleaned old part and eventually after 20 mins driving the problems started again....

    fingers crossed the bosch item works....

    this is really annoying although having driven it again the only codes flagging are


    16396
    16705 -
    16706 -

    which are the crank shaft sensor, failure and intermittent, and the bank 1 camshaft thingy which according to vagcom is linked to the crank shaft sensor...
    #38
  39. Broken Byzan
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    [Mar 26, 2009]
    Yeah the camshaft sensor is a back up device and only usd in the event of a crank sender failiure. I have the spare A3 one in the car ready to drag along on the weekend if all else fails.
    #39
  40. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 26, 2009]
    cheers mate, if the new one doesnt work tomorrow or if i cant source one then im out for sun im afraid, cant take the car far at all before it starts acting up, im suprised i managed to get it back as far as i did on the test run with the old cleaned sensor in place.... genuinly thought having cleaned it, it would have worked hence the test, no such luck...boooo
    #40

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