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Water / Methanol Injection - Questions

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by tobycruse, Jun 17, 2009.

  1. tobycruse
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    tobycruse Member

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    Just when I thought the mods would stop..... Just when I thought I could give my bank account time to recover....

    I have been looking up on the internet about water / meth injection and have a couple of questions.

    Do you only use it on track days?

    Can you switch it on/off at any time or does it constantly run?

    Is it good / better for the engine?

    How long would a 1 gallon or 5 gallon tank last?

    Is it expensive to keep filling up with methanol?

    Sorry for all the questions, its just something I have no idea about. I am just curious if you could use it like NOS, flick a switch and have extra power!

    Thanks for any answers in advance!
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  2. Ash B
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    Ash B Active Member

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    Hi Toby

    Dont know much myself regarding Water / Methanol Injection. But i know S3 Big Andy order some for his beast. He would be your best bet to talk regarding all the question. Sorry not much help


    Ashley
    #2
  3. RobinA3
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    RobinA3 Active Member

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    I run Methanol/Water injection on my Polo, i use the ERL Aquamist kit.

    Basically people use it to cool the charged air going into the cylinders to help with pinking/det (when pockets of fuel ignite at the wrong point of the combustion cycle). This will cause power loss and also damage piston crowns and cylinder heads. By injecting water into the charged air going into the cylinders this helps to stop det and in most cases allow some spark advance to be used due to less det and pinking (knocking).

    This is not the same as NOS as it alone does not give extra power.

    Do you only use it on track days?
    Can you switch it on/off at any time or does it constantly run?


    No, you run it all the time, there are different set ups you can get, the one i am using is a 1D kit which is activated by a boost switch, basically it comes on when the boost reaches a certain point, i have got mine to come into action when the boost hits 5-6psi.

    Is it good / better for the engine?

    Its good for the engine, as to how much difference it makes depends on the mods and power you are running, i am running around 180bhp in the Polo which is a 1.3 engine which came out the factory with 113bhp so its extremely useful on a highly tuned engine. There is no reason not to run it as its not bad for an engine but it doesn't give you extra power like NOS does, its a completely different type of application.

    How long would a 1 gallon or 5 gallon tank last?

    All depends on how you drive, and also how many jets you have fitted, i have got 2 x 0.3mm jets in mine and i use the 5 litre washer bottle to hold mine and it lasts about 2 tank full of fuel, i would expect you to use 0.7mm jets in the S3 due to the amount of airflow the engine uses. i would guess at most you would use a 5 litre bottle every 2 tanks of fuel.

    Is it expensive to keep filling up with methanol?

    Not really, you do a mix with water, you can't run 100% methanol, the system is for water really as water removes heat better but has no octane so methanol is added for the to increase the octane and also to remove heat, most people use 50/50 mix between the 2, i usually buy a 25litre drum of methanol for £25 and give half of it to my mate who runs aquamist and then fill the drum up with water giving a 50/50 mix.

    Hope that helps :)
    #3
  4. heyadamhey
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    heyadamhey Member

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    I was looking on the Snow Performance website a little while back - they referred to it as "chemical intercooling" (as opposed to a mechanical, radiator type of intercooler)

    Diesel Stage 1 Boost Cooler
    http://www.snowperformance.net/product.php?pk=24

    Looks intersting, but it only left me with more questions :shrug:
    Is this an intercooler 'replacement', or can they be run in conjunction with one another?
    Will this give better performance gains than replacing the standard IC with a larger FMIC?
    (my questions relate to a standard TDI 140)

    In South Africa, the above kit is about the same price as a larger FMIC with plumbing.
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  5. heyadamhey
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    heyadamhey Member

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    :sly: Just found an article with a dyno chart for a 2.0 TFSI fitted with teh stage 2 boost cooler. performance gains aren't what i thought they might be. +- 30ft/lb torque gain, but apparent HP gain :think::think: weird

    http://www.europeancarweb.com/tech/epcp_0904_audi_a3_2_0t_cooling_system_upgrade/photo_04.html

    Full article on comparison between bigger intercooler and methanol/water system. as tested on the 2.0 TFSI mentioned about:
    http://www.europeancarweb.com/tech/epcp_0904_audi_a3_2_0t_cooling_system_upgrade/index.html

    interestingly, a FMIC upgrade offered +11hp and the methanol/water system offered +12hp. Personally, I think I'd go with a virtually maintenance-free FMIC.

    Can you use them together though??? answer: yes...
    From the article:

    Independently, both upgrades did well and rightfully so, since both systems are designed to reduce air charge temperatures. The 2.0T engine is prone to running rich as the amount of timing retard increases, and if the motor goes too rich, power is reduced, so anything that reduces the air charge temperature is a plus. Comparison of the CH3OH/H2O injection and FMIC data shows that there is no real winner in the horsepower department since both upgrades showed similar gains. But since there wasn't residual timing retard present after the installation of either, it is beneficial to run both modifications concurrently. If cost is the sole deciding factor in which mod to purchase, methanol injection would be the obvious route.
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  6. hatmeow
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    hatmeow Turbo is the only way....

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    You are an Angel Robin!! Thanks for all the answered questions! I have ordered a "Devil's Own" water injection kit (US brand) and actually don't know too much about it except that it really cools down the intake charge and cleans your engine like nothing on the market.

    I am going to put this on my K04 2.0T A3 so I guess I should run 2x 0.7mm jets? or just one? Did you use your existing washer bottle or add another 5L bottle?
    #6
  7. hatmeow
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    hatmeow Turbo is the only way....

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    Toby... Mods will never stop and Your account will never recover...Just look at me...:( we have caught the bug and will only get worse...in another car, in another time!!

    My next target is the new S4...its going to be a crazy beast!!...when I can afford it!!
    #7
  8. RobinA3
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    RobinA3 Active Member

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    My suggestion to people who are considering methanol injection is to do it when you are modded quite heavily, you'll benefit from a bigger turbo and front mounted intercooler more than just methanol injection.

    Methanol injection helps to cool the charged air which helps with knock retard, as pretty much all new modern engines have knock control the methanol will reduce the amount of knock within the combustion cycle which will allow the engine to run with reduced spark retard which then gives better performance. The engine will not advance the spark more than the base map but will retard it to protect against knocking.

    Most benefit would be to have a custom map created for your engine with the methanol running so that the ignition angle can be 'tweaked' to give some spark advance.

    As to what size jets to use its all about trial and error, i would look at www.aquamist.co.uk and ask on there regarding what jets to use, i ran with one 0.3mm jet and found it better when i put a 2nd jet in, also the position of the jet makes alot of difference as well, i have mine placed just after the front mounted intercooler and one just before the throttle body, the positions where you need to mount the jet is all based on trial and error and seeing what works best.

    I have used my washer bottle as you need to have a priming pump to assist the water injection pump so i have used the washer bottle pump, i have fitted a seperate smaller washer tank for the windscreen in the wheel arch.

    Also by using the washer bottle as the supply for the methanol and water you get the benefit that you know when its getting empty with the washer water level warning comes on.

    Hopefully that helps!
    #8

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