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want more power out a3 2.0 tdi

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by audi-pricey, Jul 12, 2009.

  1. audi-pricey
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    audi-pricey Member

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    [Jul 12, 2009]
    i am new to the tdi side of cars have had it re-mapped to about 180-185 but what other mods could i do to give me a bit more?
    de-cat
    induction kit
    4-2-1??
    #1
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  3. N8
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    N8 Kowalski Details VCDS Map User

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    [Jul 12, 2009]
    Turboback exhaust first with de-cat & custom map, that'll be more than enough.
    #2
  4. audi-pricey
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    audi-pricey Member

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    [Jul 12, 2009]
    will it not sound like a tractor then??
    does an induction kit do anything to a tdi??
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  5. Boydie
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    Boydie Boycie VCDS Map User

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    [Jul 12, 2009]
    To get around that all you need really is a decent remap!

    You could then go a bit further with a panel filter replacement (induciton kit will do nothing except lose power), which I would suggest anyway and then either a turbo back or cat back exhaust

    Should be fit for around 175-185bhp dependant on which remap you go for!

    The car will sound the same as standard - more or less!
    #4
  6. audi-pricey
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    audi-pricey Member

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    [Jul 12, 2009]
    i have had it remapped its quick but i always want it faster so think i will go for the turbo back exhaust, you car looks the dogs boydie i got the same colour how much is that lowerd by ??
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  7. Boydie
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    Boydie Boycie VCDS Map User

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    [Jul 12, 2009]
    Thanks for the comments lad, its around 40-50mm on coilovers and 19" BBS CH

    To make it more noticeabley quick you will need a turbo upgrade which will then lead on to other expensive mods like upgraded clutch, possible flywheel, you would definately benefit with a turbo back exhaust etc....

    There are arguements on here that a TBE will not benefit someone running a standard turbo, therefore not worth the money but if you were planning on upgrading everything then go for it

    There is a guy on here (devonmikeyboy) with 340bhp from his 2.0TDI Quattro
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  8. audi-pricey
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    audi-pricey Member

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    [Jul 13, 2009]
    i saw that the other day thats alot of power out of a tdi,

    i have the tdi sport are they lowerd 15mm more than any other or is that just the guy talking s**t to me
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  9. pdv40
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    pdv40 Member

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    [Jul 13, 2009]
    I think the S-Line is the lowest as standard, the Sport is somewhere in between that and the SE
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  10. Ash B
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    Ash B Well-Known Member

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    [Jul 13, 2009]
    I believe Sport suspension is lower 15mm than SE and S-line is 10mm lower than Sport? If i'm wrong some one will correct me.
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  11. Boydie
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    Boydie Boycie VCDS Map User

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    [Jul 13, 2009]
    That is correct - ditch those springs and get a set of eibachs or h&r's - failing that, get a set of fk, weitec, eibach or if feeling plush, kw coilovers!
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  12. NHN
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    NHN Retrofitter - Audi - VW - Skoda - Seat Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [Jul 13, 2009]
    As Boycie rightly mentioned, unless you are considering a turbo 220-240 power upgrade I dont see the point in blowing 500+ on a new exhaust, you wont see any noticeable differences between running stock exhaust & say milltek, only time you'd benefit is with a turbo upgrade, maybe panel filter, custom map car specific.

    If you're buying for the right to brag about milltek exhaust then fine, but who looks at the milltek brand on the tips & goes wow nice exhaust & doubt sound much difference on that car with just remap, lol, but if you are like me & do things that actually are a noticeable difference to the car then leave the exhaust alone unless you are going to do a serious upgrade.

    I find the remap to be more than enough, I dont need to hear a milltek to think its better, I dont follow the sheep as such when it comes to buying exhausts, cause as far as I'm concerned its money wasted for no real gains.

    If you want more noticeable power mate, then consider a hybrid turbo upgrade with these other added bits & trust me you'll notice that for sure.

    Only issue with that upgrade is the heads on the A3's are known to IIRC crack so more pressure could possibly add more problems later as advised to me by 2 reputable tuners, 1 being Regal & other being AMD & if they say this then I'd be more inclined to believe them, think it was earlier A3's that had that issue, 04-05, if someone could add more info specific to this then feel free.

    Scuse my bluntness but just being factual & honest, but you dont have to believe me, read up & check for yourself, dont just go out & blow serious money then be let down by nothing noticeable.
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  13. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jul 13, 2009]
    +1

    Been there all too often, and always though afterwards, WTF where is the performance increase????

    If your exhaust is knackered and needs replacing, or you are doing SERIOUS modifications then fairy'nuff. Otherwise its an extravagance, and £ per BHP doesn't come anywhere near a remap.
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  14. NHN
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    NHN Retrofitter - Audi - VW - Skoda - Seat Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [Jul 13, 2009]
    & Warren when you gonna sort your sig image link out & 2nd its Furry **** for future reference, lol
    #13
  15. devonmikeyboy
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    devonmikeyboy As far from JBS as possible !

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    [Jul 13, 2009]
    If on a buget remap,change backbox,panel filter.
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  16. audi-pricey
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    audi-pricey Member

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    [Jul 16, 2009]
    i have been looking a past theads and see someone say they are going to send there turbo off the get the hybrid treatment whats is this ?? how much ??

    been looking at devonmikeyboy's web site and its says front intercooler and stage 2 remap 195bhp is that waht you need to do stage 2 remap
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  17. Boydie
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    Boydie Boycie VCDS Map User

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    [Jul 16, 2009]
    with 195bhp I would be wanting a new uprated clutch as well
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  18. V6Pete
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    V6Pete Now running on Bentley's y'all

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    [Jul 16, 2009]
    The back box is the biggest restriction on the TDI, not the rest of the system anyway.
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  19. dunk
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    dunk Member

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    [Jul 16, 2009]
    hybrid turbo - they machine out the inside of the casting and fit bigger insides= more air for a given boost.

    a stage 2 hybrid should be good for 230-250hp depending on who you believe.
    even with a hybrid you dont need an fmic - the pd140 one is fine

    panel filter and rear box replacement will help the turbo achieve that 240hp or so and reduce lag because the heavier internals take longer to spin up - a decat downpipe will help with the turbo lag as well

    anything else is just a waste of money unless you get a really big turbo but that needs a custom exhaust manifold, custom exhaust, custom air, water and oil pipes and is going to cost ££

    a stage 2 hybrid turbo is about £600-700 exchange or about £1200 new, and will need a custom map for about £400-600 to make it work properly

    a dsg box is fine with a hybrid but a manual will need a new uprated clutch at this level of torque (360lb/ft or more)
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  20. NHN
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    NHN Retrofitter - Audi - VW - Skoda - Seat Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [Jul 16, 2009]
    That would be dependent on if its stock, generic mapped or customed with over the standard map upgrade to about 185bhp, I would say if you are going above this then back pressure would be a concern, but running a standard map wouldnt neccessarily need an exhaust upgrade IMHO, for the difference you get I cant justify £500+ for very very little gains.

    Now take Dunks & DevonMikeys systems, they would require something upgraded on the exhaust side given ones running 240bhp & other way over 300.

    I see no real mind boggling benefit to having an exhaust upgrade unless we're talking something along the lines of these 2 examples.
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  21. V6Pete
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    V6Pete Now running on Bentley's y'all

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    [Jul 16, 2009]
    I'm not so sure. When I fitted my back box to my 3.2, I saw the following graph, as the same part no is used on the TDI 170. I guess if developed properly there are good benefits to be had.

    [​IMG]
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  22. NHN
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    [Jul 16, 2009]
    But seriously as I've always said its not mind boggling improvements is it, come on for what they cost I would need to see something fairly substantial, you show me a graph of my car for before & after map & that would be something to say yeah it was worthwhile, but above doenst light my fire as such.

    I think it starts to really benefit you when you start to do some serious tuning like Dunk & Mikey have, for generic mapping I cant see the cost being worthwhile.

    But this is of course only my opinion, I just like to see alot more for my money for something that cost so much.
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  23. V6Pete
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    V6Pete Now running on Bentley's y'all

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    [Jul 16, 2009]
    I guess it depends on how you look at it - purely in BHP terms a remap will of course give more power, but I chose to fit mine just as much for the look and sound.
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  24. NHN
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    [Jul 16, 2009]
    This is where we differ then, I would never buy an exhaust for what it sounded or looked like, sorry but that seems rather boy racerish to me, I'd rather it was functional & actually showed me some gains than it be gurgling like a V8, never did get that tbh, I mean how often do you look at an exhaust on a car or stand there listening to it, lol.

    I would however buy a exhaust for the gains & have it styled to my car as then it would be functional, but if it didnt provide anything of use then no point wasting my money.

    We could discuss this on other parts of the car but I see a point in all my mods, mainly to learn something.
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  25. V6Pete
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    V6Pete Now running on Bentley's y'all

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    [Jul 16, 2009]
    You got very defensive about the value of some shiny knobs on your RNS-E ;) I'd rather have shiny stylish tailpipes than 2 bits of silver plastic. But that's why any mods are a personal taste, and of course why our cars are unique.

    As to how often do I stand there listening to my car? Never. But I do drive it, and enjoy the sound the V6 makes.
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  26. warren_S5
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    [Jul 16, 2009]
    Is the remap graph you have posted above a 'manufacturer supplied' chart, or one specifically for your car Pete?

    Whilst being the primary agent for the removal of spent gases from the engine in the most efficient manner, exhausts also provide the manufacturers some scope for controlling the flow / back pressure of the system to either bolster torque figures or outright BHP.

    I'm no expert on exhausts, but I guess there is a balance for the buyer to strike between drivability / emissions control (for cars in MoT space) / sound / appearance.

    Back in the 90's I had a Mk2 Jetta GTi 8v, and after an engine upgrade (TSR Donington 1.9 litre), I had a full exhaust system + manifold (3" diameter pipe). The results were terrible for around town driving, and I found I lacked midrange power as the lack of back pressure meant it was slow to pick up. However, in contrast it gained significantly in performance over 100mph when the gases were really flowing and kept pulling far harder than the stock system.

    This is less of a problem in turbo or higher capacity engine cars as they deliver far more torque than an NA unit.

    For people who want absolute power I can see how they are of benefit as the power curve is sustained at high RPM's. However for general road use I don't think you always see the benefit vs. the outlay. Don't get me wrong, if money was no object then I wouldn't care less, but I personally feel there are mods which return more outright performance / drive improvement for the same kind of money.
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2009
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  27. NHN
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    [Jul 16, 2009]

    [​IMG]

    Sorry, got bit bored there, made me tired.

    You simplify a previous discussion that needs to be put to bed, continue if you like but it has no revelance to this healthy thread so move on because I will ignore & I'm sure others will aswell.

    Back to the discussion:

    Everyone to there own, but to buy an exhaust purely on sound & visual effect IMHO is silly, considering 95% of the exhaust is under the car, then whats so appealing about the tips, if asked if I like a certain look I will say ye/no but it isnt my underlining reason to replace.

    I have desires on a new exhaust for my car thats styled to the valance, but this is only because I might go the hybrid route which would ideally need the better exhaust as already mentioned by Dunk for one & since its an expense based on the improvement overall then seems logical to make it suit the car better aswell, but until I do the upgrade exhaust wont be changed.

    I just dont like this gotta have a Milltek cause its cool thing,(yes I know yours is remus) but its the overall feeling of naturally having a better exhaust is going to make your car become a Veyron, lol, cause although alot of us know its not the case, there are a fair few that also would think it would do this, simply, it wont, as Warren said recently for the gains & expense, its not worth it given the gain of bhp to the pounds cost.

    But like I said, this is only my opinion of this matter, I didnt say you had to agree with me.
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  28. NHN
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    [Jul 16, 2009]
    Bloody hell, you got a webcam here as mentioned you Warren & up you crop, lmao
    #27
  29. V6Pete
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    V6Pete Now running on Bentley's y'all

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    [Jul 16, 2009]
    That was a manufacturer supplied graph on a TDI 170 Quattro. Mine is the 3.2, but the fitment is the same.

    I agree that some exhausts can severely impact on drivability, and I guess the biggest problem on your Jetta was from the manifold, as these tend to optimise top end power at the expense of low down power.
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  30. V6Pete
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    V6Pete Now running on Bentley's y'all

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    [Jul 16, 2009]
    I think my point was more than valid - you like to spend your time and cash on shiny knobs, I spent mine on an exhaust.

    My exhaust sounds and looks great - it sounds much more like a V6 without being boy racery at all. To me and a lot of people, that's money well spent, but I understand if that doesn't float your boat. As I said, each to their own.

    Your comment re the Veyron is childish - my expectations from the exhaust were a few bhp, not 700+.
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  31. NHN
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    [Jul 16, 2009]
    I bet my shiny knobs on my rns look better than your not so shiny exhaust tips, lmfao, give it a rest FFS, it was months ago & tbh you've simplified the situation to your liking, move on.

    Veyron was a analogy example not making a direct comparison of power, you're not a stupid person so dont act like one, you clearly understood the point I was making interms of the power increase some people expect from changing the exhaust over.

    So you gained a few hp for how much again, was it worthwhile overall for the cost, for me no, for you well thats your decision, but for me I'd want more than a few hp to make it sense, £500+ for few extra horses is pointless, the graph shows only a difference of between 200rpm's in reality so didnt make a huge difference IMHO
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  32. V6Pete
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    V6Pete Now running on Bentley's y'all

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    [Jul 16, 2009]
    My exhaust tips are nice and shiny thank you! I may have oversimplified the situation slightly, but like you, was trying to make a point - you value your shiny knobs, I value my tailpipes.

    I didn't understand your point re the Veyron - any conventional mods such as air filter, exhaust, etc. give extra power without putting any stress on the engine. A remap in it's very nature will always be the best bhp per £ as it's software and inexpensive. I don't agree why you feel everybody who has purchased an exhaust has unrealistic expectations, I expected a few bhp and got that I'm sure.
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  33. heyadamhey
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    heyadamhey Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jul 16, 2009]
    I was just doing some readiong on tdiClub and their second recommendation for more power (after a remap) is using bigger injectors.
    What injectors are available for the 2.0 TDI PD (without getting too pricy)?
    can you use the injectors from the TDI 170?
    How big a job is it to replace injectors?
    and would it be worth doing these at the same time as a remap? (to avoid a second remap to suit the new injectors)

    Cheers!
    Adam
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2009
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  34. devonmikeyboy
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    devonmikeyboy As far from JBS as possible !

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    [Jul 16, 2009]
    Very little info on tdi club is relevant to PD engines as most of the people posting haven`t even seen one as it`s mainly an American site. The stock PD140 injectors will flow more then enough fuel for the stock turbo. It`s the turbo that will need replacing before the injectors for more power. It is possible to buy uprated nozzles though and they are called P1287+ which will then have to be fitted and tested into a set of injector bodies.
    [​IMG]
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  35. NHN
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    [Jul 16, 2009]
    Slightly, lmfao I'd say a feck load, you made it so oversimplified to your taste that even Forest Gump would believe you, lmfao

    & think you need to change your glasses or get some, cause I dont know where you got your info from but you're talking complete rubbish, I havnt said anywhere everybody who has purchased an exhaust has unrealistic expectations.

    I clearly have said, a number of times on the forum if you bothered to read properly instead of window shopping, I dont think upgrading the exhaust on stock/generic remap is worthwhile for the such minimal gains & some people would buy the exhaust expecting some serious improvements on a stock car, next time read before commenting because it seems you like to skip what was actually written & just make up your own jackanory.

    Its funny cause my shiny knobs get better sound out of them than your exhaust, I think they call it Touche.
    #34
  36. Cali
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    Cali Member

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    [Jul 18, 2009]
    Thanks for this - pm'd too
    #35

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