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Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by Westy, May 9, 2011.
Thanks for that Dane
Been busy again tonight. Cleaned up the AIT Sensor, spot the difference:
While I was at it I also fitted the length of 19mm hose I ordered for my catch can vent to atmos. I'd become sick of the fume in the cabin so went to town!
It's so much better now
I then went out to log AITs again. These were the results:
I think it's probably safe to say that the core can't take it! The off boost temps are slightly better than last nights but when it's on boost it sees 50 degrees after a couple of runs.
Oh well I've proved to you folk out there that a small FMIC is inadequate, time to go core shopping
Get a big arse welly style one,lol
I've got the exacgt same one Welly has saved in my eBay watched list
I'd rathe go for a big AH one that fits behind the fogs though.
Neil, you know how your venting to atmos, do you get a dodgy idle? Like revs fluttering, car have unsteady idle?
Not at all. The car idles better than it did when I was venting back to TIP.
you best be fixing that abomination of a breather system before going to the Ring boyo!
If it starts breathing heavy after being cained on the Ring you'll be venting oily **** all over the track, or even worse, your rear wheel!
I know it's not LIKELY to drop any ****, but i think it's entirely possible that the oil vapour will remain gaseous through the catch can due to under bonnet temps, then start to condense out and liquidise in the pipe under the car as it cools quickly due to airflow.
Would hate to see a biker go down on that!
It's pretty standard to vent to atmosphere though so I bet the ring see's quite a few cars running the same setup. It's different when it's just the block and cam cover breathers just plumbed to a filter. The catch can is there to do exactly that, catch the oil. If it's properly baffled (which I'm pretty sure that one (strange name escapes me) is), it'll be fine.
Its not the venting to atmos thats the issue... looking at Neils setup, the top of the catch can is normally the vent and should have a little filter on it so the pressure can vent... the inlet on the side would be where the PCV is connected and that way there 'shouldn't' be any leakage of oil from it.... typically on race cars too the catch tank has a hose to take any oil back to the sump....
If the catch can is set up right then there shouldn't be an issue but Prawn does have a point... an oil catch can is there to catch oil after all
I do see you point Nick and I'll keep a beady eye on it.
When I just had a filter under the bonnet it remained clean and I could only see it smoking vapour when it was on Bill's rollers doing 150mph last Friday. When my car is breathing heavily now the vapour has a lot longer to travel before its out that hose.
The catch can is a baffled one and should be ok.
On a side note. MY mates old E36 Ring M3 he built didn't even have a catch can, it vented straight to the bottom of the engine bay from the rocker! He did a lot of laps in that car and never saw a problem. I'll keep an eye on it and if I notice any issues I'll be changing it.
Are you sure mate? I looked at a lot of different setups when I fitted my catch can and most seemed to be fit the same as mine. It's not a problem for me to change the 2 hoses round.
Here's just a few examples:
Oh and I found this
Regs for racing specify a 1ltr catch can minimum capacity. - fyi
........... however the bikers following fell off the track
I know anyone caught dropping oil or anything fluids, is escorted off the track and fined heavily for track cleanup.
Yep I'm aware of this too and that's the least of my worries. I'm more worried about killing someone. Like I said I will keep a very close eye on this and if I spot any slight amount of oil in the end of the breather hose i'll change it.
After looking at that cutaway then yeah... looks like its right then mate... apologies
I assume the one you have is a baffled one then? looking at the pics it should work ok...
Yeah it's baffled and from the cut away looks like a nice little design. Should be ok but I'll monitor it.
That's cool Bill, I was never suggesting just running a filter. In fact I was saying that's more likely to drip oil of course.
With regards plumbing to the sump. I'd definitely not recommend this on a road car, especially not in the UK where condensation is going to be more of an issue. This is the sort of gunk that came out of mine when I was in the UK, and I ran it for a good few years:
Not sure I'd want that in my oil
interestingly, the seat sport sumps had a return to sump - like my ibiza has..
100% agree re road car and avoinding water return tho... fo sho
Ok, I've gone back to the drawing board with my FMIC.
The dimensions of my current cooler are 560x180x63 with 57mm in/out. The Forge cooler dimensions are 480x270x60. The massive Toyosport core (S3 Kev & Welly) is 600x300x76.
Ideally I do want to keep the fogs so the Toyosport is out the window. So as you can see the only main difference between my current cooler and the Forge one is the height. I've hunted eBay for a core that is similar in dimensions to the Forge one but cant find anything
I'm wondering whether it'll be possible to keep the fogs if I get the big core but use reducers straight down to 63mm pipe work
I suppose there's only one way to find out
I have the new intank fuel pump and will tackle the job on Tuesday evening. I've hunted all over ElsaWin to try and find the steps required in changing it but I cant seem top find anything. Does anyone here who has Elsa know where the instructions are???
man up you silly tart, it's the easiest job on earth
Remove rear seat, remove 3 screws, remove lines and electric plug, spin off the plastic ring, remove pump/pot unit.
Refitting is reverse of removal
Cheers for the support Nick
Ok I'll grow a pair and go for it.
Ps. Tuffty, it's good to have you back.
Ah, thank god Tufty is back! I didn't like that GT30audiS3 bloke one bit!
Good to be back ;P
Oh yeah forgot to mention that I had a little play with an 03 plate scooby yesterday. It was de-badged so I dont know what model it was but it had the aggressive STI scoop and bumper. I think it was just a WRX but it was neck and neck until I got into 5th gear then I started pulling past him! when we both slowed down he gave me to thumbs up which was nice :icon_thumright: I'm happy with the performance. Should be a bit better with the fuel pump and bigger cooler on
Pah you'll be up and running soon and you'll make scoobs look like micras
Right I've been back over the FMIC thread a few times and I'm massively torn between an AH Fabs core (still waiting for Alex to call back) or the mahoooosive Toyosport core that Welly has
Ok the main issue I have to weigh up are:
- Do I care about the fogs? If I loose the fogs i'll have silicone 90 degree bends in the gap instead of alloy pipes as I dont like the bling.
- Will the Toyosport core be too big for my needs. 21psi K04?
- Will the Toyosport core cause any issues with lag or pressure loss due to its size?
Really unsure what to do.
I think if I manage to actually speak to Alex i'll probably end up with one of his cores but he's a difficult man to get hold of!
Anyone have any input???
LMAO @ waiting for a call back........
Zero downside functionally on a welly sized toyosport fmic on yours. His has no downside other than his rods bent immediately on first test rag after fitting it.
He's there now - just spoken to him.
Ive ordered the AH Fab. core as my plans are similar to yours (i.e. max I will go is hybrid KO4). Think after reading a thread the 51mm inlet/outlet is good for about 400 bhp
lol, thought you might comment
to be honest I am swaying towards to Toyosport one as it'll cool above and beyond my needs.
Well I'm hoping my rods stay straight, Welly's was a freak bend........
No no no no no.
WHY oh WHY would you go SMALLER than the pipesize originally fitted to service 225bhp when chasing 400bhp!
It will not support that power - Period.
51mm supporting 400bhp airflows is laughable
Read tufftys build thread to see the "facts" of pressure drop on this very core, despite modded even larger pipework being added.
dont do it dude!
The original AH Fabs FMIC I had (with 51mm ends) won't support 400bhp IMO... even after I fitted the 60mm ends the pressure drop is just too large...
The new one I had made up using the same core they use on the 500bhp cossie's, uses more rows and while I haven't tested the pressure drop, the probs I was having before are gone...
If you are gonna order a FMIC from AH, make sure its the new larger one...
Right guys, I think you've made up my mind for me. Bye bye fog lights
this came from Tufftys thread...
If you don't mind loosing fogs and having pipes on show then fit an ebay cooler like Welly has... no apparent flow restriction and repeatable results on the dyno... if you want to retain the fogs then essentially do a ****e load of work like S3 Paul did to get an ebay one in, fit and AH/Forge with 51mm outlets or wait and see 'if' I can get 60mm outlets onto the AH in which case you could have a chat with Alex about producing something similar...
Alex says the core is good for 400+bhp which will be where I am aiming for but thats not to say it wouldn't benefit being larger or deeper...
As I have said in the FMIC thread I started its really down to how much work you are prepared to put in to get something like this fitted and how much compromise you are willing to make as to what has to go...
For a K04 (std or hybrid) then I don't see it being a major problem as tbh they run on the edge when you try to get the most power from them... all the S3's dyno'd so far are very sensative to heat and they produce a lot of it when maxed... there isn't much a larger FMIC will do to help there, WMI is what you want for that...
My engine produces the same power on 1.5bar as it was at nearly 2bar but the difference is it runs cooler... this suggests that despite the turbo being able to produce the the airflow for more power, the components of the engine will not flow it... this backs up and produces more heat which pulls timing yadda yadda yadda....
To answer your question, going 60mm will remove the current bottle neck 'I' am experiencing with the FMIC, on a K04 you would not really notice it... but I will need to do the same (improve overall flow) on the rest of the engine components before I can turn up the boost a bit more and realise the potential left in my GT30... larger throttle body, large port head and eventually a large port SEM inlet mani will give the the full flow potential of the turbo and whack my power up a bit to boot...
and look at post #193 in the bit below. I based my purchase on this information.
Yeah I did see that post earlier when I flicked through the thread. Unfortunately it appears that a lot of what Alex has said about his coolers hasn't been entirely true.
I have been to Bill's twice now and I have met and spoken to Welly and Tuffty when I've been there. Welly's eBay core had a pressure drop of half a PSI compared to Tuffty's 4-7psi drop.
The only thing that was swaying me towards the AH fab cooler back when I was posting in that thread was keeping the fog lights but now i'm not too fussed.
Having been out in Welly's car (all be it, it's a lot different to mine) and seen the results on Bills Rollers i'm happy to take another gamble with an eBay core.