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VPower vs Normal Shell Unleaded (8L 1.8T)

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by JudderMan, Feb 7, 2013.

  1. JudderMan
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    JudderMan Active Member

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    Since buying my car at the end of November I've always given it Shell V Power, there are two near my house so there's no excuse really, but last night all the VP pumps were off so I only put £10 of normal Shell in - I always fill it right up every time with VP - and the temperatures outside were 3C down to 1C where I ended up. Now then, having been driving spiritedly before the fill up and then afterwards, it seemed pokier with the cheaper fuel in it.

    Having never owned a turbo car before I want to give it the best diet of fuel but this has made me think twice. I'm not so fussed about VP costing a little more if it's going to create 'better' bangs from running higher octane but there was a marked increase in it gobbling the revs towards the upper regions of the rev range.

    I doubt it's **** at the bottom of the tank as I don't let it get lower than 40 miles left and the slight change in ambient temps. Any ideas or am I making it up?
    #1
  2. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

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    Standard unleaded is less potent... so you are making it up... :p
    #2
  3. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    The lower octane will result in timing pull and subsequently timing adaption as the ECU re-learns about the fuel you have... the affect is not immediate and also subject to driving style...

    Lower octane fuel WILL affect the performance long term once the ECU has adapted... the affect is exaggerated on mapped cars especially stage 2 maps where timing is added and generally accepted that performance fuels will be used.

    When I used to work in Cheltenham I drove past a couple of Shell stations so it was V-Power all the way... where I work no the only garage available is Tesco so I now use Momentum... the Shell garage by Bill's workshop never has a reliable supply of V-Power other wise I would leave it till the weekend to put fuel in... every time I decide to do this they never have any so I use Momentum exclusively now and have tuned my car to that...

    <tuffty/>
    #3
  4. JudderMan
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    JudderMan Active Member

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    Cheers fellas. I guess my ECU loves cack fuel then :think:

    Can't wait to get it mapped. MOT next week then it's immediately getting the decat and 3" DP added, I'll source the FMIC and pipes then it's mapping time.
    #4
  5. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe Princess Slayer

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    My car was mapped on V-Power; and if I use anything other it is noticeably flatter.

    Turbo cars should all have a premium fuel.
    #5
  6. JudderMan
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    JudderMan Active Member

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    Indeed, that's what I thought. I used to run my mk2 Escorts on Optimax as they loved it and used to celebrate the fact with flames out the exhaust ;)
    #6
  7. S3 Paul
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    S3 Paul Active Member

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    I try and use Vpower.
    However the odd time ive done a "splash and dash " with standard fuel the car is a pig to drive. it wants to boost spike and feels like it is on and off boost all the time. Not ideal i would have thought as im guessing its the ECU throwing timing in to get power then having to pull it out again when the knock sensor calmly explains im running on dish water.
    #7
  8. JudderMan
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    JudderMan Active Member

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    Aye, that was the thing last night I needed about 70 miles worth so bunged a tenner in as we were off looking at houses...which have some tasty roads leading to them. Nearly ran out of the cheap stuff and will head back to Shell tonight for the fruitier stuff.

    It could be that Shell have been putting standard in the VPower tanks and vice versa...
    #8
  9. Alex C
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    Alex C Well-Known Member

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    would low octane fuel be easier on tired coil packs thus making the car feel better?
    #9
  10. S3 Paul
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    S3 Paul Active Member

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    Do coil packs go tired?
    i thought they just either worked or didnt?
    #10
  11. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe Princess Slayer

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    They do break down yes; over time they lose their efficiency and result in a weaker spark.

    When I changed my mix match of 10 year old coil packs for brand new ones I couldn't believe how much smoother the car was, fuel economy went up too.

    Lower octane won't have ANY relation on coil packs at all; coil packs are there to do one thing...Make the spark plugs...spark. The efficiency of the spark will be effected and determined by certain cylinder conditions, but that isn't anything to do with the coil packs as they provide a constant energy.
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
    #11
  12. S3 Paul
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    S3 Paul Active Member

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    Oh great. Another shopping trip then !
    Every day is a school day !
    #12
  13. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    Paul, I think awesomegti are selling TFSI coilpacks for £75 for a set of 4. get those and be happy for ever more :)
    #13
  14. rhubarb4
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    rhubarb4 Certified Jardo Slayer

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    Nick dont you have to mess altering the gaps with those TFSI coil packs, or can you just whack them straight in.

    Chris.
    #14
  15. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    Just whack them straight in mate. You CAN mess with the gaps to make them a big bigger - as the TFSI coil is more powerful. However tests showed next to no change in output AFAIK so in they whack...
    #15
  16. Alex C
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    Alex C Well-Known Member

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    I had my coil packs changed over the weekend after 2 died on me. The car feels as if it pulls much more strongly at mid revs with the new coils compared to before they died on me
    #16
  17. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    It's ok Judder, I got the same feeling when I put normal UL into mine once, then once the ECU adapts, the car felt slower. For standard cars, it may not be noticeable, but for a remapped car, defo stick with VP in the long run. In my opinion.
    #17
  18. @udi A3
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    @udi A3 Site Sponsor Site Sponsor

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    Im going to swear at you as i use desel. However i have a fixed rate shell card so its almost relevent!
    I get noticably more power and MPG return from Vpower. The extra MPG more than covers the extra cost, however the normal desel is much cheaper on the fuel card. I live near 2 shell moterway stations.

    One of them has had no regular desel now for nearly 2 months due to water pollution!!!
    #18
  19. s3clarke
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    s3clarke Money grabbing s3!

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    I do use v-power/momentum in my car, but in the **** weather as of now with the ice, snow etc, I just use cheap fuel. why would I need high octane fuel, im not driving fast anyway. It is noticeable though were the car doesn't feel as alive. P.s my car isn't mapped etc.
    #19
  20. JudderMan
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    JudderMan Active Member

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    Just tanked it up with Total Excellium (or whatever it's called...and £1.45.9L!!! compared to £1.37.9 for VPower) as Shell still doesn't have any VP but no bursts of speed. Pootling back I'm getting 43mpg which as you can see by my sig I hope it keeps up as Total will have a new customer. Need to find the BP 99RON stuff but the nearest is 15 miles away, which is a bit silly as I'll pass about 10 petrol stations to get there.

    Can't wait to get it mapped :)
    #20
  21. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    Is the car standard? or mapped?

    I'm fairly sure the stock map (at least on some models) increases the boost pressure on **** fuel to make up for the reduced ignition timing, so the driver doesnt notice.

    Once mapped, this is generally reversed for safety.
    #21
  22. JudderMan
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    JudderMan Active Member

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    It's standard for the time being (see sig). Maybe VPower just isn't as shexy as it once was compared to other fuels? I'll give the car a good seeing to later with this Total stuff in it and see if I can feel any difference.
    #22
  23. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    On a stock car the differences should be fairly imperceptible by design.
    #23
  24. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe Princess Slayer

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    Morrisons are bringing back E85. Booya.
    #24
  25. Audi Dynamik
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    Audi Dynamik Well-Known Member

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    Since mine has been remapped it wont run properly on anything other than Shell V Power Unleaded , If i put Tesco 99 Momentum or Bp Ultimate or just regular unleaded, my car Hesitates whilst accelerating at motorway speeds.
    #25
  26. Alex C
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    Alex C Well-Known Member

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    think elsawin says use high octane but the normal stuff can be used but there will be a loss in power
    #26
  27. JudderMan
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    JudderMan Active Member

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    I know that's why it was a bit of a shock last night as it felt pokier than normal. Even my fiance asked if I'd been 'putting any more bits on it'. I wasn't killing it just giving it a good work out.

    Strange.
    #27
  28. kwistof
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    kwistof South East Events Moderator

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    You'd be driving forever to find BP 99RON as they don't do it mate. Pretty sure BP's highest grade is 97RON? Unless there are other grades across the country- happy to be corrected if that's the case.

    Bring back BP ultimate 102 I say :)
    #28
  29. JudderMan
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    JudderMan Active Member

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    Ahh yeah, I meant 102.
    #29
  30. RobinJI
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    RobinJI Member

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    Standard fuel does tend to have a higher calorific value thanks to having less additives (and therefore more actual fuel), so it might be that in this cold weather the timing advance wasn't having issues with knock even with the lower octane, resulting in a very slight increase in power, especially as like the other guys have said the ECU will take a few miles to realise the fuel change and back off the timing, so until it does, you may get a very minor power increase. Even if that is the case though, it's no reason to run it on the cheep stuff, it'd only be a very temporary increase before the engine comes across pre-ignition issues from the low octane rating and has to back off the timing, which will loose you more power than the higher calorific value will gain you.
    #30
  31. A3AH
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    A3AH Member

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    Couldn't link me so I could buy a set? Searched yesterday couldn't find them for the life of me.

    A
    #31
  32. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe Princess Slayer

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    #32
  33. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    hahaha :laugh:

    Well done Jardo, top detective work there!

    Worth noting for those with A3's, these will only work on an AUM, not an AGU
    #33
  34. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe Princess Slayer

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    A little birdie told me that there is a thread on Vortex where they have been taken apart and proven to be no different internally to standard packs and that the improvement you see is actually just old vs new.

    The little birdie was Mr Seamons so it will probably be ********.
    #34
  35. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    Wouldn't surprise me if this was the case but just because they appear physically the same doesn't mean electrically they are different... I would want to see electrical tests before calling it but it is my understanding that the TFSI packs are a higher energy output coil... the TFSI runs larger gaps and has higher compression as std... would make sense that a higher energy coil is required to maintain a reliable spark in these circumstances...

    While tests have shown there is no obvious effect on power using TFSI coils I believe they are a better coil pack... I run a 0.85mm plug gap at 1.6bar on a GT30... no signs yet of this being an issue

    <tuffty/>
    #35
  36. Sam_
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    Sam_ Down under

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    It's the same as the S2000 filter malarky and the usual 'upgrade to replace old' scenario. Old knackered parts replaced with new different parts and improvements are often mistaken as the being due to the "upgrade".

    The TFSI coils appear to be as unreliable as the regular 1.8T ones. A friend who runs a VW specialist garage here said he's never changed a bolt down coilpack or AGU one but countless push downs. I've seen the Vortex threads on them too and have to agree. the fact they are cheaper is a bonus though. I have the hitachi bolt downs, which are the same as RS6 and have been faultless in 18 months.

    With regards to fuel, I've ditched Shell here, their variable quality vs BP Ultimate has forced me to switch. I was getting loads of knock on Shell. Apparently it's down to the stations themselves to check the fuel quality, and most don't bother. Must of Australia's fuel is imported so additives are added when they get here or the octane is much higher before it hits our shores (octane will lower over time).
    #36
  37. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    So are we saying that coilpacks go off and perform worse over time/mileage/use? They don't just break in cold weather, they actually deteriorate over prolonged use?
    #37
  38. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    Hasnt it been shown that running large gaps of say 1mm is a surefire way to burn out the stock S3 coils, whereas the TFSI ones will handle it just fine?

    Most people close the gaps down on the S3 coils when upping the power, and yet tuffty has opened the gaps up past stock on his with the TFSI coilpacks...
    #38
  39. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    Lets be fair, the coil does do a very hard job. It turns 12 measly volts into around 20 kV. Thats a big ask.

    The theory is that they should either work or they don't. End of. No moving parts to go wrong. However that should be true of all electrical wire based things. Bottom line, they are copper wire. Copper deteriorates over time due to oxidisation, especially when combined with high temperature environments... engine bays for example.

    #39
  40. s33nyboy12
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    s33nyboy12 Well-Known Member

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    Back on topic..........

    I prefer shell v power to all the other hi octane fuels on the Market and always try to use it in my car.

    Sean
    #40

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