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Uprated Clutch & Flywheel ?

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by RAPS3, Mar 3, 2004.

  1. RAPS3
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    RAPS3 Active Member

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    The clutch / flyhweel on my S3 has been a bit suspect for a while know. No slippage just an annoying vibration feel through the pedal when taking up bite and a very short travel, with a snappy feel to it.
    I've done the dealer thing and they say theres nothing wrong. But I've drove 2 other S3's now and somethings definately not right. The clutch felt smooth with no snappiness.

    Anyway I'm going to change it in a few weeks and this is where the question arises.

    Do I go for option 1 which is to replace the clutch and dual mass flywheel with geniune Audi parts. I can get these for around £587 (trade)

    Or Option 2 which is to fit a lightened flywheel and uprated clutch. Ive seen this [​IMG]

    ECS Tuning

    with which the current exchange rate comes in at £733.

    The car is chipped by MTM so there is the issue of a standard clutch going again in the future. But I dont want a sharp visceous clutch with the amount of town driving I do.

    Also surely Audi made the flywheel a dual mass one for a reason, can anyone forsee engine problems by removing this for a solid Aluminium one?

    What do you guys think becasue as you can tell I havnt a clue which way to go.
    #1
  2. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    Paul,

    I'd be tempted to go with an uprated set up. Plus, you can test it on by behalf, and if you like it, I'll maybe invest!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif

    I'm sure the ECS product is very good...

    But, at this year's Autosport show I was speaking to Dick Richards from Mardigras Motorsport at Silverstone...he was telling me all about the Helix stuff..
    I was specifically quizzing him on uprated 1.8T stuff with high clamping forces.

    Apparently Mardigras Motorsport are one of the UK distributor of Helix stuff:
    Mardigras Motorsport
    ..ands Helix do an uprated and lightweight flywheel that allows the use of a larger clutch.

    Perhaps there are more details on Helix's site:
    Helix Clutches


    The cost was somewhere around the £600-£700 mark for the flywheel, clutch cover, clutch plate and the release bearing. I thought this was pretty good.

    Helix do both a cerametalic and an organic plate...the organic I was told would clamp over 330lb-ft...which should do you or I nicely.

    Dich reckoned that the organic would be ideal for fast road use...

    You could do worse than give Mardigras a call...they are unfeasibly helpful (I used them all the time I had my Integra Type-R as they race them!)...I'm sure that Dick could offer advice / assistance.

    When my standard item finally lets go, that's where I'll be heading.
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  3. RAPS3
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    RAPS3 Active Member

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    Glen - cheers I'll give them a call I think. I'm going to keep on looking into this until I'm certain, as I dont want to have to pull it all apart again.

    These are the details of the ECS kit -
    [ QUOTE ]
    ECS Tuning Stage III Clutch Kit with Lightweight Aluminum Flywheel (9lbs)
    Complete kit including ECS lightweight aluminum flywheel & hardware


    approx 30% more clamping force than stock clutch!

    Faster revs due to lightweight flywheel

    Free up lost horsepower with almost a 15lbs difference in clutch set-ups

    Kit uses Special heat treated clutch pressure plated & Kevlar lined clutch disc

    Kit is good to 275-325 wheel horspower & approx 325lbs of wheel torque

    Excellent pedal feel, retains OEM type pedal feel



    Kit includes the following parts:



    ECS lightweight 9lbs aluminum flwheel

    OEM flywheel bolts

    ECS Stage 3 Clutch Pressure plate & disc

    OEM Pressure plate bolts



    Installation:

    Torque Flywheel to crank 60Nm.(44ft.lbs.) + 1/4" turn (90deg)
    Torque Pressure Plate to Flywheel 20Nm.

    IMPORTANT
    Kevlar Break in period of 450-500 miles of normal stop and go driving before the intended use of the clutch can be initiated. NO full throttle shifting or compression braking should be performed prior to completing the brake in period. Breaking in period allows the friction material to properly seat against the flywheel and pressure plate.

    $1349.95


    [/ QUOTE ]


    Do you have any thoughts on the removal of the dual mass flyhweel for a one piece ali one?

    The dual mass version takes up some of the initial loadings on the drivetrain doesnt it? So surely if I remove it the forces need to go somewhere.

    #3
  4. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    r88per said:
    Glen - cheers I'll give them a call I think. I'm going to keep on looking into this until I'm certain, as I dont want to have to pull it all apart again.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Understandable...

    The only thing going for a UK based kit over a US based kit is the access to the manufacturer...I'd feel more happy being able to walk up to their door and create a scene...rather than dealing with someone over a long distance phone call...or trying to get them to return an e-mail! (not as easy as you might think!)


    [ QUOTE ]

    Do you have any thoughts on the removal of the dual mass flyhweel for a one piece ali one?

    The dual mass version takes up some of the initial loadings on the drivetrain doesnt it? So surely if I remove it the forces need to go somewhere.



    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yes, the initial shock is reduced...but the main advantage is less noise and vibration.

    Sure if you drop the clutch and unleash over 300 lb-ft, there's going to be stresses...but the dual mass thing will soon have wound it's self up tight so after that point there's no difference.

    Everything will take more of a bashing for sure..but just how much is up to the driver.

    At the end of the day...here's an example...

    Porsche GT3 - comes with dual mass flywheel.
    GT3 Club Sport does not...it has the single piece lightened part...no there differences except a bit more noise and a bit more vibration / harshness letting the clutch out.

    So, it can't be too bad for the car, can it?

    Sure...it's going to be less civil in traffic...fractionally so.
    Sure, a really light flywheel CAN make it easy to stall at junctions - if you don't give it enough revs! (I have one in my GTI...I know all about it)
    A single mass may be a bit more noisy, and vibrate a bit more than a dual mass...

    I don't drive mine to work in traffic...so it wouldn't bother me!

    I'd (and will when the time comes) fit a light flywheel and uprated clutch...but I wouldn't fit a paddle clutch for the road...they are just silly!
    You should be OK with a light flywheel and a full face uprated clutch though...
    #4
  5. Stuart_A3_Turbo
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    Stuart_A3_Turbo Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Ess_Three said:

    The only thing going for a UK based kit over a US based kit is the access to the manufacturer...I'd feel more happy being able to wank up to their door and create a scene...rather than dealing with someone over a long distance phone call...or trying to get them to return an e-mail! (not as easy as you might think!)


    thats an interesting habit /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh_roll.gif

    sorry, had to point it out.

    #5
  6. s8n
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    s8n Member

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    A friend of mine recently enquired about a uprated clutch/flywheel and he said there were stalling issues??

    My clutch feel suxs and i definately want something that can handle 350hp for APR's upcoming Stage III, know of any around that are well priced?? Stock feel would be nice too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
    Its a every day car.. ECS looks good but doesnt hold the power I want to acheieve
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  7. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Stuart_A3_Turbo said:

    thats an interesting habit /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh_roll.gif

    sorry, had to point it out.



    [/ QUOTE ]

    Heh-heh...
    That's me forgetting to let go of my sad nightshift fantasies and step back into reality!!

    Anyway...I think I got away with it! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angel.gif
    #7
  8. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    s8n said:
    My clutch feel suxs and i definately want something that can handle 350hp for APR's upcoming Stage III, know of any around that are well priced?? Stock feel would be nice too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
    Its a every day car.. ECS looks good but doesnt hold the power I want to acheieve

    [/ QUOTE ]

    To be honest, I very much doubt the ECS clutch will prove to be a problem with 350BHP.
    It's not power that wrecks clutches...it's torque.

    The power is made too far up the rev range to cause a clutch real grief...normally, once the clutch is engaged and the engines past peak torque, it'll hold plenty more than the manufacturer states.

    It's peak torque you have to worry about.
    If I drop the clutch at 3500RPM, my clutch and drivetrain have well over 300lb-ft to sort out...if the clutch holds, the rest take the strain...usually resulting in all 4 tyres spinning up....
    If you have crap tyres...they spin.
    If you have sticky rubber...you are unleashing a whole lot of force!

    Regardless, you'll be lucky to gry away with that more than a handful of times on a standard clutch...that's why mine won't be seeing another 1/4 mile strip for a while...

    As long as I don't do standing starts mine doesn't complain...despite putting osmetimes upwards of 330 lb-ft through it.
    #8
  9. pwnorman
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    pwnorman Member

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    Rich you must get one hell of a backhander from your sales teqniches you use. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
    #9

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