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Upgrading Turbocharger

Discussion in 'Tuning' started by , Mar 31, 2004.

  1. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jun 15, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    I've seen quite a few stainless manifolds for stock turbos(k04),these would require good bracing to avoid cracking with the weight of a heavy gt28rs.I might have seen a cast one in the states but i can't recollect where.
    So thats a new manifold,new turbo/kit,new downipe and flange,new oil and water lines,de-cat or sports cat.You would need a new intake hose as the inlet on a gt28rs is 3",adapted outlet/ic hose .Then you would need bigger injectors and have it would all mapped.It won't be that cheap.
    quote from site "This turbo happily makes a reliable 275 crank HP on pump gas and close to 300 crank HP on high octane
    "-k04 performance.

    I've read the other bit about how the stock manifold flows better than the atp manifold-hmmmm
    I predict big lag,time will tell.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    No its still not CHEAP, but cheaper than what it is at the moment. Intake can be adapted to fit the 28RS intake. Water and oil lines are cheap if you go to the right place, and injectors are not expensive either (£200 in the US for 440cc Bosch). Exhaust could stay, and then would be downpipe and cats. All in for under £4k i reckon if you can find a decent cast manifold... I wouldnt be too happy with a stainless manifold.
  2. Ryanc
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    Ryanc Active Member

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    [Jun 16, 2005]
    Well good luck to you all,what gt28rs is he running?0.64 or 0.86?hybrid?
  3. ANDYTQ
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    ANDYTQ Active Member

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    [Jun 16, 2005]
    Hybrid i think if its the same as adams ibiza (addo @a&m) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gifAndy
  4. AL_B
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    AL_B Active Member

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    [Jun 16, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    quote from site "This turbo happily makes a reliable 275 crank HP on pump gas and close to 300 crank HP on high octane
    "-k04 performance.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I read that as meaning the GT2X turbo kit and not the GTRS kit. If you look at the Dyno graph for the GTRS, there is one trace for Stock Cat, Stock Exhaust on 93 Octaine petrol. The quoted figure for that is 236bhp, which I am assuming is wheel bhp, not crank. (Correct me if I'm mistaken). So if we add say 80bhp to that for Quattro drive train losses, that gives a pretty decent 316bhp, with most other things stock.

    [ QUOTE ]

    I've read the other bit about how the stock manifold flows better than the atp manifold-hmmmm
    I predict big lag,time will tell.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yeah, no one wants more lag. But with it being ball-bearing, won't spool up be pretty good though?

    I would love to give this mod a try, but I'm a bit concerned about the expense, what happens if it is laggy, who would do the mapping, what about emissions etc. Not got the money to throw at it really. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
  5. AL_B
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    AL_B Active Member

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    [Jun 16, 2005]
    PS: Have you read the Installation Manual for it?

    One statement made me laugh...

    "Note: During warm up idle, all the oil residue from installation will burn off. During this
    time, there will be light smoking due to the burn off. If there is heavy, cloudy white smoke
    or any foreign mechanical sounds observed, shut the car down and contact your nearest
    dealer."

    Conact your nearest dealer!!! Do they mean ATP dealer or Audi dealer! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Image that, calling your Audi dealer "Hi, yeah, I have a problem with my car. I have just fitted a bigger turbo myself, and the car is no longer running well. There's white smoke coming out of it."

    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    AL
  6. Ryanc
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    Ryanc Active Member

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    [Jun 16, 2005]
    I know it will be laggy with a gt28rs.
    A .64 gt28rs tops out at around 320FWHP.
    Like i said we shall see,i'd love to do a comparison ,me ,rich and one of the mtm guys and one of these stock manifold guys on the RR.Compare spool-up,top end etc.
    Even simon and his hybrid k04.
  7. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jun 16, 2005]
    That would be good. What turbo are you using Ryan, or are you keeping it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shutup.gif ?
  8. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jun 16, 2005]
    I believe the IHI creates the same low down power as a K03 200rpm later, but doesnt get fully on boost until 3500rpm (ish)

    Rich
  9. Ryanc
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    Ryanc Active Member

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    [Jun 16, 2005]
    GT28RS has gone,many many many problems.
    All will be revealed as soon as my car is back from remap this weekend.
    Are you going to any meets this year rich?
  10. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jun 16, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    GT28RS has gone,many many many problems.
    All will be revealed as soon as my car is back from remap this weekend.
    Are you going to any meets this year rich?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Will be at GTI Festival if your there. Would be good to have a chat. Interested to see your setup.

    Rich

    PS - We will be at Castle combe on 23rd July and in October also (VW and Audi Trackdays)
  11. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jun 16, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    I know it will be laggy with a gt28rs.
    A .64 gt28rs tops out at around 320FWHP.
    Like i said we shall see,i'd love to do a comparison ,me ,rich and one of the mtm guys and one of these stock manifold guys on the RR.Compare spool-up,top end etc.
    Even simon and his hybrid k04.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Is there different versions of the GT28RS then as the JBS Octavia is said to be running 400+ on a GT28RS turbo. So i have heard don't quote me on it.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    There are different A/R housings but thats it AFAIK. Arent JBS running 440bhp with nitrous?

    Rich
  12. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jun 16, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    New project sounds interesting....i'm broke after messing with my car so it will pretty much stay as it is for a while.
    Not really done a 1/4 in the s3 yet so should be interesting,might put the avus's back on.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I know what you mean! costs more than you plan doesnt it. Its a pain when things there were previously fine suddenly accelerate with wear rate ten fold and start replacing bits left right and centre!

    Rich
  13. Ryanc
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    Ryanc Active Member

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    [Jun 16, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]


    Is there different versions of the GT28RS then as the JBS Octavia is said to be running 400+ on a GT28RS turbo. So i have heard don't quote me on it.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    James is running a hybrid gt28rs with a .64 housing with gt30 internals etc.Hence why it can produce 440bhp.
    A gt30 is rated at 500bhp,the .64 housing is for quick spool up.Still doesn't spool till well after 4krpm.The .64 housing is now a restiction to the potential of the compressor wheel hence the 440max.

    here is a rough guide(standard turbos)
    gt28r 310bhp
    gt28rs .64 325bhp
    gt28rs .86 350bhp
    Don't go for a .86 because it's very very laggy.
    My opinion is the a gt28rs on a standard manifold will produce 300-310bhp with spool up around 4.5krpm.
    I'm sure we will find out.
  14. AL_B
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    AL_B Active Member

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    [Jun 16, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]


    My opinion is the a gt28rs on a standard manifold will produce 300-310bhp with spool up around 4.5krpm.
    I'm sure we will find out.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Wow, that's awful!

    Its a real shame to be honest, a straight bolt-on kit with re-map would probably something I could have saved up for and done. But 5K-ish (jabba) and 9K-plus (MTM) is just too much dosh.

    AL
  15. Ryanc
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    Ryanc Active Member

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    [Jun 16, 2005]
    Hey i'd love to say that i thought it would be 350bhp and spool up by 3.5k but i'm pretty sure it won't.
    This is all my opinion anyway so i may be wrong.
    I have spent nearer the mtm mark to get mine right and if there's one bit of advice i'd tell anyone that wants 300bhp+ it's your going to have to pay at least £5k,do it once and do it right.There's no cheap shortcut!
  16. ANDYTQ
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    ANDYTQ Active Member

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    [Jun 16, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Andy, yes it was Jamies. Think it is a GT28R as well. No badges on it. A&M hiding the identity.

    Chris.

    [/ QUOTE ]With so many conversions available i suppose they have to ,especially while they are in development and awaiting rolling road data.Adams car should be very quick when finished he's spent enough on it.I just havent got the money to go really big turbo (moved house instead) so i will try this ko4 hybrid that mikes running if i get 260+ i will be happy enough for a while.There are going to be some seriously quick vag cars soon in s.wales. A good excuse for a big meet what do think /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gifAndy
  17. s3bow
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    s3bow Member

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    [Jun 18, 2005]
    Yes. I'll get round to turning up one day.
    Unsure on the big turbo thing at the moment. Would probably make the manifold myself and source the turbo from the states. Get my d/p modified , and a front mount i/c. A lot of money though. Had the car nearly two years now , so itchy feet.
    How's Matthews conversion progressing ? Or are they waiting to see how Jamies gos ?

    Chris.
  18. ANDYTQ
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    ANDYTQ Active Member

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    [Jun 18, 2005]
    Waiting for Jamie,Matt has all the bits ready,just waiting to copy manifold and oil and water lines etc.Ran mine at westec today,it was a little warm 31 degrees in the workshop,intake temps went up to 70 degrees ,only managed 210bhp and 258lbft but not surprised due to temps ecu must have been pulling right back.Rollers seem to be ok now though /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yes.gifjust need the fmic like right now and a cool day rematch /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gifAndy
  19. Ryanc
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    Ryanc Active Member

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    [Jun 18, 2005]
    Hey Andy,
    My FMIC works a treat mate,temperatures never got to 40 degrees during any of my dyno runs yesterday,i'm looking to go bigger now but if you interested it's proven to 335bhp.
  20. imported_kennyf
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    imported_kennyf Guest

    [Jul 3, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Hey i'd love to say that i thought it would be 350bhp and spool up by 3.5k but i'm pretty sure it won't.
    This is all my opinion anyway so i may be wrong.
    I have spent nearer the mtm mark to get mine right and if there's one bit of advice i'd tell anyone that wants 300bhp+ it's your going to have to pay at least £5k,do it once and do it right.There's no cheap shortcut!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    i thought I'd be happy with the S3 standard, hence why I bought it. Now i really want to uprate it, remapped it to 267bhp and 200lb already. However trying to justify @ least 5k for such a small gain is crazy. What adds insult to injury is 6k Gt4 with uprated intake and exhaust ( say £800) would easily give the S3 a hrad time ( although they are ugly as sin) after you've just ploughed 5k into it.

    A bit of pointless post but a bit disheartened at soo much for soo little (comparatively)


    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shutup.gif
  21. Ryanc
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    Ryanc Active Member

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    [Jul 3, 2005]
    I had a mr2 turbo (245bhp standard) and spent about £1k on it and got it close to 300bhp,it could run 13 second 1/4's and was very fast(alot lighter than a gt4).My s3 is now slightly faster than the mr2 but i've spent alot on it.If you want a light/fast car ,why buy a s3??I bought mine for the quality.
    If you wanted outright performance get a evo5/6 and spend £1-2k and it will be almost untouchable point to point.
    By the way the difference between a remapped s3 and a Big turbo(decent one) S3 is night and day.
  22. s3bow
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    s3bow Member

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    [Jul 3, 2005]
    Ryan, how about posting a full spec on yours on here. Probably make good reading.

    Chris.
  23. Ryanc
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    Ryanc Active Member

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    [Jul 4, 2005]
    Hi Kenny,
    Won't roast you at all mate.Your right you probably be slower than a evo with 1-2k spent on it(just) but make no mistake you would beat gt4's,pulsar and the majority of scoobys and the like.
    Personally i wouldn't want to swap the classy interior,leather recaros,understated looks and build quality for jap stuff.
    Remember that the s3 has forged pistons and crank from the factory and is capable of handling the power as is a evo,gt4's ,pulsar's and scoobies go pop around 310bhp.
  24. aaerica
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    aaerica New Member

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    [Jul 4, 2005]
    The IHI turbos are easy to find second hand. The vf24 is the one to use they have a roller bearing and can be found on sti ver 5 imprezas i sourced 2 for a friend ( his and hers mk2 golf 1.8ts ) both were under £150 and one even came with a 90 day warranty from a jap breaker. He is using green injectors jabba manifold and remap and should see well in excess of 300bhp (according to jabba) which is an impressive gain for a sub £1000 spend
  25. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jul 4, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    The IHI turbos are easy to find second hand. The vf24 is the one to use they have a roller bearing and can be found on sti ver 5 imprezas i sourced 2 for a friend ( his and hers mk2 golf 1.8ts ) both were under £150 and one even came with a 90 day warranty from a jap breaker. He is using green injectors jabba manifold and remap and should see well in excess of 300bhp (according to jabba) which is an impressive gain for a sub £1000 spend

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I believe you mean VF-34? I cant believe you can achieve over 300bhp for under 1k. THe manifold alone is £500, £200 for injectors, minimum of £500 for remap plus sports cat, downpipe, exhaust .etc

    RIch
  26. imported_kennyf
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    imported_kennyf Guest

    [Jul 4, 2005]
    Cheers Ryan, thought either you or Rich would have pounded me ( kennyf wipes cold sweat off of brow!)

    Rich the jabba rep up here uses a vf22 , apparently holds boost further up the red, non roller bearing tho , so I imagine is a bit laggier.

    I thought about getting it done myself , like sourcing a turbo of Ebay or scooby.net, normally get one for about £350,injectors from audspeed, manafold and downpipe fabricated and all required lines made up. Then tak it along to dastek or star to get mapped.....

    Does the vf34 need a dif manifold or can bolt straight on?
    Can the standard TIP or samco/sfs equivelant still be used on an ihi?

    If a turbo requires an external wastegate is this hard to facilitate?
  27. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jul 4, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Cheers Ryan, thought either you or Rich would have pounded me ( kennyf wipes cold sweat off of brow!)

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Not in the slightest!

    [ QUOTE ]

    Rich the jabba rep up here uses a vf22 , apparently holds boost further up the red, non roller bearing tho , so I imagine is a bit laggier.

    I thought about getting it done myself , like sourcing a turbo of Ebay or scooby.net, normally get one for about £350,injectors from audspeed, manafold and downpipe fabricated and all required lines made up. Then tak it along to dastek or star to get mapped.....

    Does the vf34 need a dif manifold or can bolt straight on?
    Can the standard TIP or samco/sfs equivelant still be used on an ihi?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yeah the VF22 is bigger and laggier and to be honest i personally dont think its suited to the 1.8T unelss it has a 8k rpm redline. Never tried one though so couldnt say for sure.
    a turbo conversion like this is never as cheap as you think it will be...always ens up costing a fair bit more. the VF22 and VF34 use the same mounting flange so the manifolds can be shared. I used a modified samco intake on mine. The S3 one was too much of a pain in the arse and i couldnt get it to stay on the turbo! In the end i welded up a 2.25" 90degree stainless intake and chopped the bottom off a samco and joined them together and use a silicone joiner to join the stainless pipe to the turbo inlet. Works very well and its v tidy.

    [ QUOTE ]

    If a turbo requires an external wastegate is this hard to facilitate?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yes. if the manifold is not designed to use an external wastegate then it would be a PITA. You would also need to modify the downpipe to take the waste gas from the wastegate. They also take up a fair bit of room!

    Rich
  28. Ryanc
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    Ryanc Active Member

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    [Jul 5, 2005]
    MTM have done a few bam cars,mines a apy so no problem.
  29. Platinum70
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    Platinum70 Member

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    [Jul 12, 2005]
    I was just about to have my A4 S-line upgraded by AMD from stage 3 to stage 4 (new milltek sports cat, new hybrid turbo and new remap), but they have had a few problems doing this conversion. Apparently power has been much lower than they expected and the turbo has been under performing.

    Is there anyone on here who has done this or has one of the cars that has been a 'problem'?

    Cheers
  30. Ryanc
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    Ryanc Active Member

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    [Jul 12, 2005]
    What engine do you have mate?
  31. Platinum70
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    Platinum70 Member

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    [Jul 12, 2005]
    Ryanc

    Model year 2004 190bhp s-line A4 quattro. Although now with a fair bit more bhp thanks to stage 3 AMD.

    I think its a BEX engine.

    Cheers
  32. Ryanc
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    Ryanc Active Member

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    [Jul 13, 2005]
    2.0t then?
  33. Platinum70
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    Platinum70 Member

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    [Jul 13, 2005]
    No 1.8t
  34. imported_bubstar
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    imported_bubstar Guest

    [Jul 14, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Which hybrid are they using a k04-01?
    Your probably looking at 240bhp.Cat won't make much difference.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    The "S-Line" 190ps 1.8t BEX motor has a K03s Turbo and Twin Intercoolers.

    Mine showed 237 BHP and 230 lbft on Star's dyno after a Re-Map and a couple of tweaks, even with 33'c intake temps! I've fitted a Oettinger alloy turbo intake pipe too.

    Surely Ryanc 240 with a K04 is a little on the low side?

    Wouldn't 265-270 be more realistic with a massive increase of (nice flat) torque?
    Pushing 1- 1.2 BAR?



    BUB
  35. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jul 14, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Which hybrid are they using a k04-01?
    Your probably looking at 240bhp.Cat won't make much difference.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Wouldn't 265-270 be more realistic with a massive increase of (nice flat) torque?
    Pushing 1- 1.2 BAR?

    BUB

    [/ QUOTE ]

    No. The K04 used on the TT/S3 makes these figures roughly at max, and the K04.01 Is not as capable as that turbo. You;d be looking at 250 tops i;d say

    Rich
  36. Platinum70
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    Platinum70 Member

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    [Jul 14, 2005]
    Not sure about these figures! I seen loads of S3's, TT's and Leon Cupra R's with higher figures then 250 from the standard turbo. Whether it be APR, AMD, Revo or Jabbasport. One guy got 288bhp out of a Leon R from Jabbasport and that was confirmed on an RR day at AMD. Surely they can't all be misleading us or maybe its a conspiracy to get us to part with our money!!

    Also i had a few RR's done, including the original AMD one. With remap only the graph showed 244.9bhp and 251.3 lb.ft. The car had coved less than 100 miles and has now done 30,000 and had Sportec alloy intake pipe and Milltek Stainless (no cat yet).

    The real question here is will we get value for money in upgrading the turbo. I was about to have stage four done which AMD say will give a genuine return of 265-270bhp depending on the car. When I have my leon R done it returned bhp of 272 when it had been run in and had full milltek with sports cat. Another guy there on the day got 256.

    As I said before are we being mislead or just enthuastically hoping for value for money.

    I really want to go down the route of turbo upgrade and would really appreciate some good advice on the matter.

    Cheers
  37. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jul 14, 2005]
    No... There is more than one variant of the K04. The K04.015 as use on the A4 is still quite small and cant shift the air required to make big power. Its only the internals that are slightly difference and the wastegate actuator. the casing is identical to a K03, hte reason its a straight swap so it has a pathetically small inlet (30mm i believe) and just cant shift the air.

    Rich
  38. imported_bubstar
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    imported_bubstar Guest

    [Jul 14, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    No... There is more than one variant of the K04. The K04.015 as use on the A4 is still quite small and cant shift the air required to make big power. Its only the internals that are slightly difference and the wastegate actuator. the casing is identical to a K03, hte reason its a straight swap so it has a pathetically small inlet (30mm i believe) and just cant shift the air.

    Rich

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Ok . Yeah - Agree , when I fitted my alloy intake I couldn't believe how small the turbo intake was!!

    The thing is, not everyone wants to bolt on bus size turbos and have to get downpipes / oil lines / intakes etc made up . They just want to fit a nice little hybrid and get some good reliable power and a nice torque curve.

    Someone must know what's a nice easy K04 for a K03s swop ............................ Surely?

    BUB
  39. SyA3Turbo
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    SyA3Turbo Member

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    [Jul 14, 2005]
    Anyone had experience with the Jabba upgrades on the A3? I have a 1.8tq and want to get some more power (maybe 300bhp) from it without swapping all the internals.if poss.
  40. Ryanc
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    Ryanc Active Member

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    [Jul 14, 2005]
    I have the k04 off my audi s3 ,also manifold and downpipe if anyone is interested.Might be a good little upgrade for a k03.

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