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Upgrading from TDI 100 to Quattro.

Discussion in 'A4/A4 cabriolet/S4 forum(B6 chassis)' started by Rays18, Jun 23, 2012.

  1. Rays18
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    Rays18 East Tattoo

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    [Jun 23, 2012]
    As the title really.
    Im getting bored with the lack of power and the TDI was kind of an impulse buy due to it being fairly cheap.

    So can anyone give any advice/opinions on this move?

    I'd also be interested in remap options if I do get a quattro.
    Any buying advice/common problems to look for when buying also?


    Many thanks !
    :)
    #1
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  3. murran
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    murran Active Member

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  4. Rays18
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    Rays18 East Tattoo

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    [Jun 23, 2012]
    After a saloon if possible.
    Aren't they pretty pricey?
    Ive seen them going around £4k mint.
    Would be the 2.5 Quattro
    #3
  5. BahnStormer77
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    BahnStormer77 BahnStormer

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    [Jun 24, 2012]
    Saloons are cheaper. What mileage are you doing? 2.5TDI quattro is NOT an economical diesel: I've got one and I'd probably still recommend most people go with the 1.8T (or 3.0 quattro, if you're doing low mileage).

    edit: sorry, the scripts on ASN keep truncating my messages and dropping all the line breaks :(

    For £4k you can get a 2001 on 100k miles or a 54 plate 3.0 which will probably have better stock toys and it's still a cracking motor. 1.8T is lighter and more fun than a 2.5TDI and if you're into tuning, then it's the preference...

    The 2.5TDI is great for lots of torque (290-340lb/ft depending on mapping) and I would agree that they're not THAT uneconomical (35mpg avg for most, 40mpg on a long, steady run)... but if you're only doing 10k pa, then there's a lot of other high spec B6's that will cost you less on initial outlay, even if they will claw that back every month at the the pumps...
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2012
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  6. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Jun 24, 2012]
    1.8T quattro is not economical either and i struggle to better 30Mpg average with it i have 2 TQS so results are conclusive (1 is mapped with a Forge recirc. valve and the other is stock)! Can do 30 Mpg easily with a b6 v6 tdi quattro ! The v6 diesel is economical for a car weighing 1600-1800kg and with 4 wheel drive ! The equivalent v6 petrol quattro will struggle to do 30 Mpg on a long run let alone average Mpg !
    The last b6 a4 FWD 163 Bhp(BDG engine code) i had done 48Mpg average on a 3200 miles trip across Europe, i wasn't hanging about either and the AC was on most of the time due to 40 degrees Celsius heat !
    #5
  7. murran
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    murran Active Member

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    [Jun 24, 2012]
    if i was in the market, id be going with the 1.9tdi130q best most reliable economical engine.

    between the diesel pumps packing up, possible cam wear, aux belt tensioner pivots breaking, and the not that great fuel economy...... is enough to make me not want a 2.5.

    but as adamss24 posted above and imo too, the "bdg" is one of the best variations of the 2.5.
    #6
  8. benjie
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    benjie Active Member

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    [Jun 24, 2012]
    Could get a 130 saloon quattro and remap it. Had mine done nearly 4 years ago, no probs.
    #7
  9. BahnStormer77
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    BahnStormer77 BahnStormer

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    [Jun 24, 2012]
    Agreed - it's decent middle ground... and lighter than the V6 too... just provided you don't get confused and think that a 1.9TDI remapped so it can get a forced-induction blip of 180bhp is the same as a 2.5V6 TDI with peak torque at <1500rpm and revs through to 4400rpm ;)
    #8
  10. Rays18
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    Rays18 East Tattoo

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    [Jun 24, 2012]
    I would do less thank 8k a year I'd say.
    Still on the look out for one here but will no doubt have to go to mainland due to budget.
    Still waiting on new owners book lol so it will be a few weeks or so.

    Can the 2.5 Quattro be remapped with standard internals safe?

    Edit, The 130 seems easier to find so it looks like Ill be on the lookout for one of them then a remap.
    :)
    #9
  11. BahnStormer77
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    BahnStormer77 BahnStormer

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    [Jun 24, 2012]
    I thought it was the 130 fwd that was fairly easy to find.... 130quattro was more rare when I was looking: I was after one, but keeping my eye on the 2.5's too.... then when mine came along, it was too good to say no: sport + factory Xenons + BOSE + nice full history and a decent price, so I went for it and have been very happy.

    Even high mileage 2.5 quattro MANUALS should apparently be fine with a moderate remap, but it's NOT good for the same % gains as the 1.8T's and 1.9TDI's... automatic gearbox is a bit more risky as the torque can fry clutches... manual should be fine if you let the clutch out fully before giving it the beans - lots of people on here have 2.5 V6's on 100-150k miles and 200+bhp economy remaps... you get a lot more low end torque and a smidge more at the top end.

    1.8T can remap roughly 163bhp to about 200bhp (nearly 25%).
    1.9TDI can remap 130bhp to about 180bhp (over 25%).
    2.5V6 (quattro) you're looking at 180bhp to about 210bhp (17%), even the most aggressive claims are 225bhp (25%).

    Technically I think it's possible to hit 250bhp with moderate work (injectors and turbo), but the torque levels get pretty extreme (400lb/ft+) and are likely to put the entire gearbox at risk.... same level of work in a 1.8T would be seeing easilly 250bhp and more.
    #10
  12. Rays18
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    Rays18 East Tattoo

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    [Jun 25, 2012]
    I meant the 130 fwd sorry they are easier to find.
    Thanks for your response btw.

    The gains sound good and I guess its hit and miss/luck whether clutches or drive shafts go ey :p


    First things first is to sell mine and see where I stand and budget I have.

    I know one thing Ill never get it in black hahaa. MURDER to keep clean :(
    #11
  13. BahnStormer77
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    BahnStormer77 BahnStormer

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    [Jun 25, 2012]
    it's the clutches on the remapped cars that normally suffer: too much low end torque and people slipping the clutch too slowly to try to make smoother progress...

    people on here are probably bored of me telling them about a new-ish Polo "100bhp" 1.9TDI that rolled 105bhp pre-map and 150bhp post-map.... but the clutch is specced WAY lower on those compared to the 130TDI's... and it was smoking even on the RR. Utterly unusable on the road... the chip'n'spin guys advised that it get mapped down... the bloke thought he'd still test drive it, came back 5mins later smelling and looking like he'd dumped a bucket full of hair clippings under the bonnet and set fire to them...

    in theory quattro is always harder on the clutch: unless the road is VERY slippery, you simply don't have that outlet of wheelspin / letting the traction control bleed power away... that said, because of that they must be VERY highly specced clutches as lots do WELL over 100k without issues :) (fingers crossed!!) compared to my old Golf GTI (mk3, 2.0 8v) that needed a new one by 60k :(
    #12
  14. benjie
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    benjie Active Member

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    [Jun 25, 2012]
    Some good advice there. I didn't get mine mapped to top bhp/torque, had it to c. 160bhp. Best compromise for me as it's DD. Clutch did go soon after, but it was already slipping before the map. That was 45k ago and have had no probs. Can't get over the grip in the wet you get with 4wd. Won't be going back to 2wd!
    #13
  15. BahnStormer77
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    BahnStormer77 BahnStormer

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    [Jun 26, 2012]
    Same here... I keep thinking I might get tempted by the cheaper FWD alternatives for my next upgrade and then I'll take off out of a side road, loose gravel, standing water, the works.... the car just MOVES! Besides, if I go fwd, even the 2.0TDI's have too much torque for the front wheels, so quattro is a must.... and if I go for a 2.0T, it'll be for the fun factor and then I'll "need" to have quattro again :)
    #14
  16. AlexGSi2000
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    AlexGSi2000 Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 26, 2012]
    As others have said - if you are going for power and get bored easily, go for the 1.8T

    I used to have an Ibiza Cupra R which I got 245bhp from for less than £2k.

    I miss keeping my foot planted and not having to change gear as much as the 2.5TDi I have now.

    I purchased the 2.5TDi Quattro in February - since then I have had a full exhaust fitted along with a custom remap (it does sound good) - but gains aren't massive - I have also been blessed with worn cams, which warrants £1.1k's worth of parts.

    Im getting around the same MPG I did from my Ibiza Cupra - 35mpg aulthough to be fair the 2.5TDi is heavier and has the AWD system.
    The gearbox is hard to get used to, first gear ratio is incredibly low, however I get the impression this car . gearbox was designed with towing in mind.
    #15
  17. Turkster
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    Turkster Bro.Paul 2.5TDI Quattro Sport

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    [Jun 26, 2012]
    Quattro system all day long, I always remember them poor peoples faces stuck on the side of the road as i glided my way through them roads that was not gritted, last winter, only winter to feel pity on one young family i see in there Audi A3 with a baby on board that i pulled out of the ditch, they had been there for hours with the engine on as there only source of heat, I hooked them up to the rear of my Quattro and pulled them out and towed them 30 miles home,
    #16
  18. Rays18
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    Rays18 East Tattoo

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    [Jun 26, 2012]
    Thanks so much for the replies so far.
    I had a mk3 Ibiza for my first car and said Id never buy that same shape ever again cupra or not. So bland and dull plus the OEM tape deck system is total balls and ugly !!

    The quattro must be diesel for insurance reasons oddly enough. Anything 1.8 Petrol I am getting totally raped upon. Im 21 and paying just under £900 for my TDI 100. The petrol is nearly double :0.
    #17
  19. benjie
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    benjie Active Member

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    [Jun 26, 2012]
    Run some quotes on confused.com for a 130 tdi quattro, a 2.5 tdi (180bhp) quattro and see the difference. Then factor in tax, fuel costs and see from there (I think the only 2.5 with quattro was the 180bhp wasn't it... someone correct if wrong!)
    #18
  20. BahnStormer77
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    BahnStormer77 BahnStormer

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    [Jun 27, 2012]
    Rays - I'm hearing you on the insurance now... in which case, if you're not doing high mileage (i.e. after the economy of the 130TDI), then the 2.5TDI makes a lot of sense. The profile of people who buy the 2.5TDI will probably put you into a MUCH lower risk category than those who buy the 1.8T: I remember than with my first car, I could insure a BMW 325i touring (avant) for less than the coupé 316i!!

    Alex,
    The VERY short 1st gear in the 2.5TDI quattro isn't really with towing in mind.... it's to stop you from slipping the clutch too much when trying to drive smoothly and quickly: the idea is to get the car moving before you get into a higher ratio where you're more likely to strain the clutch... the drawback of the quattro is that it will strain the clutch more. You can probably drive the car fine pulling off in 2nd, even with hill-starts: the engine will be fine and will not stall, but I would advise against (STRONGLY!) it as the clutch will take a lot of pointless wear - I occasionally use 2nd when I'm pulling off on downhill slopes and the car is moving before I de-clutch.

    Benjie,

    Yes, if it's a B6 A4 and a V6 TDI quattro, then it HAS to be the 180PS (179bhp?) flavour...
    #19

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