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Update on tapping noise

campbell Mar 17, 2010

  1. campbell

    campbell Member

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    Had a an earlier post on my audi S3 engine making a tapping noise. The mechanic i had take a look at it seams to 99% sure its bottom end damge and bearing damage and gave me advice in buying a reconditioned engine and to install that with my turbo, etc and new cambelt water pump etc, he said he will fit and supply one for £1700.

    He said if he or any other specilaist strips my engine down then ill be paying hundreds of pounds forlabour to be told to get a reconditioned one, or to have the car in biits for a week.

    Does this sound about right? And if so is this an ideal opportunity to buy some more power through tuned engines through backdraft motorsport?

    Bear in mind i have never really tinkered with engine internals so i only know the basics, opinions much appreciated

    Cheers
    Campbell
     
  2. Andrew@A.L.D

    Andrew@A.L.D May add NOS to 600+bhp S3.

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    Sound about right

    It also sounds like the oil pump has had it as the lack of oil has most likely starved the head of oil so possible head damage and even turbo damage

    I got quoted £1400 for a basic rebuild and i said sod it i would rather do it myself but at a cost of more time off the road

    So far my rebuild has cost me £1700 in uprated parts for the 2.1 build and should be going in as soon as i get my solid flywheel
     
  3. campbell

    campbell Member

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    i would have a go myself but without no other car for work commitments im snookered really. So that price sounds about right? Any ideas where is the best place to buy a recon engine, do places offer supply and fit?
     
  4. Andrew@A.L.D

    Andrew@A.L.D May add NOS to 600+bhp S3.

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    I would google it for your local areas?

    There was sod all near me so i'm doing it myself
     
  5. campbell

    campbell Member

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    I will be taking it to an audi specialist in blackpool called volkservice for a second opinion, have them look at it for one hour max and see what they think. If they agree with a recon engine i think im gonna have to bite the bullet and pay for it.

    Had a word with the guy tonight who will supply the engine and fit it, do the cambelt, tensioners, new waterpump (all genuine audi), new anti roll bars front and back and probably new CV boot too- probably looking a £2000. Seam fair price Andrew?
     
  6. Andrew@A.L.D

    Andrew@A.L.D May add NOS to 600+bhp S3.

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  7. campbell

    campbell Member

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    i presume it will be a reconditioned engine or hope so, and will specify that tomorrow.

    I dont really want to be paying for a second hand motor which has been screwed etc
     
  8. campbell

    campbell Member

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    anything else i should specify if i put a recon engine in there? check clutch etc
     
  9. Andrew@A.L.D

    Andrew@A.L.D May add NOS to 600+bhp S3.

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    Replace slave and have a look at the duel mass flywheel to see if it ok

    You don't want to taking the box out again if it goes
     
  10. campbell

    campbell Member

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    slave- cylinder for brakes you mean Andrew?
     
  11. Andrew@A.L.D

    Andrew@A.L.D May add NOS to 600+bhp S3.

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  12. chancer

    chancer Member

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    I would not pay out for a full engine based on a diagnosis without a strip down. The mechanic is covering all his options the easy way quoting for a replacement engine. A specialist should strip the engine determine the cause and rebuil with only what is required. It is too easy to quote for the whole lot if they are not sure what the noise is.
     
  13. campbell

    campbell Member

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    worse case scenario on strip down, bottom end gone and bearings. Would that cost more than a recon engine?
    I know the mechanic is covering his ass. Im going today for a second opinion to a specialist, and if they want to take it on, i should get a courtesy car for how ever long the car is in the workshop for. Which is very important for work. Otherwise its a big inconvenience! Basically i just want to get the ball rolling one way or another and get work started on it
     
  14. Matt82

    Matt82 Active Member

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    must suck to have to rely on a garage's diagnosis for something like this
     
  15. MIKE GTR

    MIKE GTR Member

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    Sorry to hear that my initial diagnosis was the correct one.

    I've just had my whole engine rebuilt, including new head, pistons and hybrid, mine was close to £3,000 :(
     
  16. JD09

    JD09 I'm not modding, I'm improving VCDS Map User

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    Mike, isn't that close to the write off mark for a car like ours? A friend's car was recently written off after engine failure; repair costs 2.5k. Car;s worth, 7k.
     
  17. campbell

    campbell Member

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    can a car be written off for engine failure if thats what mine has definitely got?
     
  18. gcs3

    gcs3 New Member

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    I think insurance companies nowadays will only write of cars as a last resort. I had an accident with a motorbike that caused just under £6000 of damage to my s3 and it was repaired, and car was only worth £8500.

    gc
     
  19. jonny87

    jonny87 Active Member

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    insurance doesnt cover engine failures, obviously, else non of us would be paying repair bills would we?

    tough call really mate do you just replace the engine which is the quickest and easiest option but potentially risky, or do you have it investigated properly find the fault, rectify and be safe in the knowledge that all is hunky doory in there but more than likely cost more and take longer

    if you replaced the engine you could sell your old engine and recover some of the costs, someone who is handy on the spanners could strip it, rebuild it and either use it in their own s3 or sell it on for profit, assuming of course its not on exchange basis with recon engine
     
  20. campbell

    campbell Member

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    i think if its a recon engine, my understanding is that most the engine internals are brand new? So its a risk putting one in, surprising if the engine definitely needs replacing i cant believe it because i always put my clutch in when starting the car, always let the oil warm up, always let it cool down etc etc and always used the best oil and fuel. Just a tough decision at the moment
     
  21. MIKE GTR

    MIKE GTR Member

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    Tell me about it!! the original quote was £750, then it kept going up and up!! If I had known at the start then it would have been a write off lol
     
  22. JD09

    JD09 I'm not modding, I'm improving VCDS Map User

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    Erm, yes they do? Unless the FRS that blew up and was replaced with 8 and a bit k was just a figment of my imagination!!
     
  23. campbell

    campbell Member

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    another update, got a second opinion from an reputable audi/vw specialist and he is pretty certain cylinder two has a tappet issue, or the problem is coming from there. The car is running too well for it to be big damage. I didnt even inform him of what the other guy said (i needed new engine).

    So i have booked it in there a in just under two weeks, bit more settled now. Fingers crosses and i will keep you guys updated for those who are interested

    Thanks for all the help and comments
     
  24. Broken Byzan

    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User quattro Audi A4

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    You are not going to keep driving it tho are you?
     
  25. campbell

    campbell Member

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    No not at all, just sorted out temporary cover on a little 1.2 16valve fiesta....i hope i dont get too attached too it! might end up trading audi in for it
     
  26. chancer

    chancer Member

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    Sounds like this could be done stripping off the head first. You did think your self it was coming from the top end, and knackered main bearings sound way different to top end probs. I never trust firms who simply say replace the lot. Unfortunately many garages have lost diagnostic and fault finding skills, prefering to replace parts and charge people until it is cured, regardless of if you need all the parts.
    Cleaning the oil pickup (which most likely is slightly blocked) and replacing the offendingcam followers would be much cheaper than a recon engine and does not require full engine removal.
    I hope this works out cheap for you. You have done the right thing not diving in for the full engine.
     
  27. campbell

    campbell Member

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    Yes it definitely sound sounds like the noise is coming from the top end, the oil is getting to the top of the engine too. It is a bit smokey, am i right thinking if its a tappet then its burning oil hence the smoke? Well i hope it turns out cheap for me, thanks for advice Chancer
     
  28. jonny87

    jonny87 Active Member

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    not calling you a liar so chill the fuk out on the sarcasm!!

    im saying ive never come across an insurance company offering to pay out on a blown up engine, whos to say you havent held it on the limiter on your driveway till it went pop just to get a new engine fitted?
     
  29. Broken Byzan

    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User quattro Audi A4

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    I am thinking you have the onset of pump problems causing the noisey top end, the smoke is probably from the oil starved turbo having too much play in it allowing oil passed the seals.

    It's not unheard of for a hydraulic tappet to fail, or a valve guide to crack etc, but it is however a consequence off something else normally
     
  30. chancer

    chancer Member

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    Usually if the hydraulic follower is gone there is oil starvation somewhere. Cleaning the oil pickup if sludged up will restore oil flow but the Hydraulic follower may still not pressurise if it is gummed up.
     
  31. campbell

    campbell Member

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    where abouts is this oil pickup pipe located then?
     
  32. gcs3

    gcs3 New Member

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    The sump
     
  33. chancer

    chancer Member

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    ^^^ What that man said. Removing the sump to have a look at the condition of the bottom of the engine would give a good indication. The prescence of any sludge would indicate restricted oil flow. I would tackle that first and move on to the hydraulic followers if I discovered a sludge problem. Keep everything crossed that driving it with the tapping (possible oil flow restriction) has not starved the Turbo of oil.
     
  34. campbell

    campbell Member

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    UPDATE:

    Took it to an audi specialist and they said the tappets are worn and i need a new set. The oil pressure is bob on. Parts are costing £270 (manufacturer is INA which are audi quality) for the full set and he said approx 8 hours of work which equates to £450 approx, so all in £720.

    Does this sound reasonable? I suppose a job like this requires special tools etc, has anyone had a crack at this and could i save the 450 labour charge?

    Cheers
     
  35. Sandip

    Sandip Well-Known Member Team Nogaro Blue

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    Campbell is this the same audi specialist that told you he's 99% it was bottom end and bearing damage?
     
  36. campbell

    campbell Member

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    this is a different bloke Sandip
     
  37. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    I would say there are VERY few people on here, myself included, that like touching 20v turbo heads mate, notoriously tight to work on and very easy to mess up.

    That £720 will mean that if it goes wrong, you can take it back. Always bear that in mind.

    I had a head fully rebuilt by a cyl head specialist and one of the valves broke. F**ked the engine up again, requiring another head and another piston. I had spares which was handy for the company. But they serviced the second head for nothing as they were the last people to touch the first one...
     
  38. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    D'oh!! :jester:

    I'd be going back and having a little word....
     
  39. Mpathe

    Mpathe 1st gear

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    have you ever changed the timing belt on it and done it yourself then thats probaly the hardest part of changeing the tappets. remove belt, remove cams, fit new tappets, fit cams, time it all up, fit everying else and job done. but if you wouldn't attempt changing the belt then dont attempt to change the tappets. mike
     
  40. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    Hmmmm, removing the cams. Now there is another minefield..... Chain tensioners aren't cheap if you break it....
     

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