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Unusual brake wear

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by Eeef, Sep 11, 2006.

  1. Eeef
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    Eeef Lord of War

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    [Sep 11, 2006]
    Car's in having it's second AVS at the moment and have had a call from Southampton Audi to advise me that the rear brakes are 70% warn. I enquired about the front brakes and was told that they were fine.

    This strikes me as a little unusual but the dealer reckons it can happen.

    Opinions?
    #1
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  3. god_thats_quick
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    god_thats_quick Numptie of the highest order

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    [Sep 11, 2006]
    Trust a dealer on brake wear? I think not.
    #2
  4. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Sep 11, 2006]
    I asked my dealer to check my front pads,when it was in for the poor starting.
    I said they have lost all their feel and power.
    I basically gave them the green light to replace them,but they still didn't.
    They just said "no excessive wear" and chucked the car back at me.

    Back brakes worn ?
    Something wrong there,surely.

    I've had cars do 50K+ that didn't need back pads/shoes.
    #3
  5. ianspibs
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    ianspibs Member

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    [Sep 11, 2006]
    I remember being told a similar thing when I had an 8L A3.
    Told the dealer to leave them and checked them myself when I got the car back. I thought it would be a job I could do myself cos its not part of the warranty.
    There was plenty left on the pads.
    #4
  6. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Sep 11, 2006]
    MD in here put his 36000 mile TT in for squeaky brakes.
    They recommended new pads and discs !
    And he told them to go ahead !
    The dealers are at it,they really are.
    I think,sorry to say it,that they feel most Audi owners are either mechanically ignorant,or minted to the point where they will sanction whatever they say.
    Either way you look at it,they have nothing but contempt for their clients.
    #5
  7. evotista
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    evotista Member

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    [Sep 11, 2006]
    On an S3 the original pad thickness is 14mm and the wear limit is 2mm (these measurements are without the backing plate being took into account). I'ld cetainly be happy about taking my rears down to about 3/4mm before replacement...actually on my A3...the rears did need changing before the fronts ...but that was because of the crappy floating calipers that meant one pad was worn more than the other pad.
    #6
  8. JohnS3
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    JohnS3 Active Member

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    [Sep 11, 2006]
    I had my S3 in for a service the other week, the dealer recommended new discs and pads at the front as they were "grooved", cost? a mear £350... Needless to say they didn't change them and they are just fine with plenty to go at.
    Whilst they had it they pointed out that the headlamp washers didn't work, after a quick check they said the pump was fine and they suspected a wiring fault. After a few of my own basic checks guess what, the wiring was fine and the pump was dead. Mmmmmmmm........Don't trust em!
    #7
  9. DSGSport
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    DSGSport New Member

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    [Sep 11, 2006]
    Also booked mine in for its Second AVS next monday. Thought I would check the pads so I know what to expect. Looks like its the same for me, the fronts have loads left and the rears are almost worn!
    #8
  10. Eeef
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    Eeef Lord of War

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    [Sep 12, 2006]
    This just doesn't make sense to me. The majority of the weight transfer when braking is to the front wheels. If they applied the same or more braking force to the rear wheels which become lighter when braking, then they would lock up?
    #9
  11. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Sep 12, 2006]
    Spot on Eeef.
    I've no way of knowing what the standard brake-bias is on an A3,but if it's anything less than 60%/40% front/rear,I'd be surprised.
    I've been driving 22 years now.
    Umpteen cars.
    Never had to replace back pads/shoes on any of them.
    I've even had cars where I've gone through 2 or 3 sets of front pads without the back ones needing done.
    If the back pads are wearing out before the front,there's something wrong.
    Perhaps,as suggested,the design of the caliper allows them to seize and bind.
    If they are a sliding pin design,instead of opposed piston,it wouldn't surprise me.
    #10
  12. Eeef
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    Eeef Lord of War

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    [Sep 12, 2006]
    Dealer tried to spin me aline about a 'special system' as he called it, whereby if you were a hard braker the rear brakes worked harder....duh!
    #11
  13. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Sep 12, 2006]
    Ah,the good old 'insert the word "special" to confuse us lowly customers' routine.
    He'll have an Audi certificate saying he passed that course.
    Bless 'im.

    Seriously,does anyone else sometimes feel that Audi still seem to think their average client base is middle-aged,car ignorant,but affluent ?

    In other words,the sort of people that will blindly believe whatever they say and pay up regardless ?

    Mind you,it's what my MD does...
    He'll believe the dealer that 36k miles is okay for discs and ignore me saying "feck off,they should last twice that".
    #12
  14. marriedblonde
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    marriedblonde Moderator

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    [Sep 12, 2006]
    It's got to be a fualt surely? Mines done simialr miles and the brake pads on mine are fine! And judging by my tyre wear I drive like a female reproductive organ!

    J.
    #13
  15. Eeef
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    Eeef Lord of War

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    [Sep 12, 2006]
    I must admit, if I was keeping the car I'd probably pursue it.
    #14
  16. DSGSport
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    DSGSport New Member

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    [Sep 12, 2006]
    If they contact me to tell me the rears need replacing and not the fronts I will be trying to find out why. As mentioned before the rears should outlast the fronts by a long way.
    #15
  17. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 12, 2006]
    Could it be that Audi specify a softer material for the rear pads - cannot think why, unless it's to do with brake balance when the 'brake assist' comes into action.

    It would be nice to get a definitive answer from Audi Technical.
    #16
  18. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 14, 2006]
    I have looked up the specifications given on ElsaWin for the wear on the front and rear brakes and they are as follows.

    Different models have different spec brakes and type no can be found on the options sticker in the service book or in the spare wheel recess. Accordinging to the data given the codes are the first number on the second line of option codes for the rear brakes and the third code on the same line for the front brakes. Both are 3 digit codes beginning with a 1. For example the front brakes on my A3 are code 1ZE.

    For the front brakes
    1ZF - 280mm discs - original thickness 22mm - disc wear limit 19mm
    1ZE - 288mm discs - original thickness 25mm - disc wear limit 21mm
    1LJ - 312mm discs - original thickness 25mm - disc wear limit 21mm
    1LK - 345mm discs - original thickness 30mm - disc wear limit 27mm

    In each case the original Pad thickness, without backplate is 14mm with a pad wear limit, again without backplate of 2mm

    For the rear brakes - front-wheel drive
    1KQ - 286mm discs - original thickness 12mm - disc wear limit 7mm
    1KZ - 286mm discs - original thickness 12mm - disc wear limit 9mm

    In both cases the original Pad thickness, without backplate is 12mm with a pad wear limit, again without backplate of 2mm.

    For the rear brakes - four-wheel drive
    1KF - 260mm discs - original thickness 12mm - disc wear limit 7mm
    1KJ - 286mm discs - original thickness 12mm - disc wear limit 9mm
    2EA - 310mm discs - original thickness 22mm - disc wear limit - not given

    In all cases the original Pad thickness, without backplate is 12mm with a pad wear limit, again without backplate of 2mm.

    So given the above figures, the front pads have a wear amount of 12mm and the rears 10mm.

    So I assume that if the wear rate is such that it will be down to 2mm before the next time the vehicle is serviced, the dealer will recommend changing the pads. The same applies to the discs. If the owner wishes to check the pads and discs themselves then they may be able to get the existing ones to last longer before they have them changed. But at least the dealer with have fulfilled their obligation to tell you that they will need changing before the next time the car is due in for a service.

    On my own A3, which has now done 31,800 miles, the front pads measure 12mm (2mm wear) and the rear pads 8mm (4mm wear), so it would seem that rear pads do wear quicker than the front pads. I know that normal logic would say it should be the other way round. It would nice if anyone can get an explanation from Audi or a dealer. I will talk to the one of the 2 senior technicians when I next go to my dealers and see what they come up with.
    #17
  19. MrLapou
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    MrLapou Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 14, 2006]
    NAH..... dealer is having a laugh..Norm is front pad wear is 2 ~ 3 time more than rear.. But if rears are binding then that could cause the excessive wear.. Easy to check, lift rear of car and spin wheel to see if they bind.. Now apply and release the foot brake (engine running) and check wheels spin by hand. Do the same with hand brake...
    #18

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