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Unhappy S3 Bluefin Owners.

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by Spin140, Jun 30, 2008.

  1. Spin140
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    Spin140 Active Member

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    [Jun 30, 2008]
    Guys I sent a mail to Jamie Turvey the technical director at Superchips explaining several of you were unhappy with the results from your remaps, you do usually get value for money with their software so I asked his opinion following Saturdays Dyno day at Pro-Sport plus various posts on AS Net.

    Before you do anything in haste and go selling the handset etc on E-bay (as suggested) it would be a good idea to get in touch with Jamie direct on the e-mail address pasted below or he has suggested you visit them at the Bucks HQ so they can put your car on the dyno and try alternate files (FOC). In past experience I have always had very good service from the Guys at HQ and Jamie is eager to offer a satisfactory solution...

    Its entirely up to you Guys I'm just trying to be helpful...

    Jamie Turvey
    Technical Director
    Superchips Ltd
    2-18 Homestall
    Buckingham Industrial Park
    Buckingham
    Bucks
    MK18 1XJ
    Tel: +44 (0)1280 816781 Extn: 221


    jamie.turvey@superchips.co.uk
    #1
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  3. phantom
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    phantom On Boost

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    [Jun 30, 2008]
    What was his opinion on the results Spin?

    p
    #2
  4. Spin140
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    Spin140 Active Member

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    [Jun 30, 2008]
    He stated they have had several S3's producing high power as standard with the average overall mapped figure being between 305/310bhp.

    Spin
    #3
  5. Iggu
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    Iggu Active Member

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    [Jun 30, 2008]
    Have fired an email off - will keep this thread updated ....
    #4
  6. SteveTDCi
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    SteveTDCi Active Member

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    [Jun 30, 2008]
    not S3 related but I too have always received very good service from superchips, i'm going to post about bluefin and the TDi later including instructions on how to set it up.
    #5
  7. Spin140
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    Spin140 Active Member

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    [Jun 30, 2008]
    Hey phantom at a quick glance your car in your new sig picture looks like a TT roadster LOL
    #6
  8. phantom
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    phantom On Boost

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    [Jun 30, 2008]
    It can't be mate , the back wheels are spinning!!!!!! :hubbahubba:

    p
    #7
  9. PaulAr
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    PaulAr S3 (8P)

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    [Jun 30, 2008]
    Cant say fairer than that, however its not quite as simple for us boys up North!

    Ive been swaying to and fro and whether to go SC but these recent findings has ruled me out.
    It would cost £100 in fuel just to do the trip to SC HQ!

    One of the main attractions of the SC route was the simple DIY and `switchabilty` of the whole system.

    Shame.

    cheers
    Paul
    #8
  10. phantom
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    phantom On Boost

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    [Jun 30, 2008]
    Agreed i couldn't go down there also. If we got " roughly " the same as the other maps it would be ideal , me and AL B were talking on Saturday wanting the Bluefin to do well against the others.

    As that would be the weapon of choice for lots of reasons.

    Not anymore though. :drag:

    p
    #9
  11. jamiekip
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    jamiekip Guest

    [Jun 30, 2008]
    I'll be really interested to hear how the guys (Iggu) get on!
    #10
  12. AL_B
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    AL_B Active Member

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    [Jun 30, 2008]
    Yep, SC Bluefin was the route I was considering. Have to say I was gutted when I saw the results on Saturday. But I'm sure SC's will sort it. Very good of them to even listen.
    #11
  13. mark B
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    mark B New Member

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    [Jun 30, 2008]
    your still all looking at the headline figures only!!! We need to see power and torque curves for the Bluefin car over teh standard car before you can tell if its a worthwhile road remap. Peak power is only for willy waving in the pub and the race circuit!!
    #12
  14. Spin140
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    Spin140 Active Member

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    [Jun 30, 2008]
    I guess it all depends on what discount rate you negotiate and where you are located, I'm over 100 miles away but I make the trip for the dyno and personal service, as the Guys have already paid out it makes more sense to spend some money on fuel rather than spend another £500 on an alternate map.
    #13
  15. Iggu
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    Iggu Active Member

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    [Jun 30, 2008]
    Jamie's just invited me down to the place in Bucks for a full dyno/RR workout and guaranteed results - by which I assume he means the quoted figures.

    Different for me as I've already paid the full whack - sort of feel I must go down and get it checked out even at an extra £80 for fuel (I'd do 56mph with the aircon off all the way !).

    I'm not after the figures so I can wave my RR map (or willy) around - that's just pointless vanity. Its just that I haven't received what the product promises on the box. Sort of like opening a tin of "Heinz Beans and Sausage" but finding only beans.

    I've driven without Bluefin for the last 2 days and the lack of LOW DOWN shove (and exhaust/turbo noise) is very noticeable. Its a better drive with it on - but their marketing literature (and the literature of GIAC etc.) is all based around "Gains". From what I saw on Saturday none of these gains (from any tuning company) are materialising purely because the car in standard form is so much better than VAG quoted figures. I'd have been disappointed on Saturday no matter which map I'd purchased for that reason.

    I don't doubt the cars DRIVE better with a remap - but that's not how they sell their product is it ? I want a "Ronseal" remap - where it does what it says on the tin !!
    #14
  16. Spin140
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    Spin140 Active Member

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    [Jun 30, 2008]
    Agreed LOL :)
    #15
  17. jamiekip
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    jamiekip Guest

    [Jun 30, 2008]
    I think you've hit the nail on the head there Iggu!
    It's one thing knowing you're getting better low end torque etc, but again, you kind of want to see those headline figures. Look at it this way, you're basically going to get a tailored map by going to visit them - and you may end benfitting all S3 owners ;)

    Mark B also has hit the nail on the head. It would be great if we could see the RR graphs from the prosport day of the S3's with just the chip, Bluefin, Revo and GIAC maps.
    I'm not sure anyone has a copy of everyone's graphs and can overlay them???? Be really good to see what's performing best through the full rev range, rather than just that headline figure.
    #16
  18. L60N
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    L60N Guest

    [Jun 30, 2008]
    Iggu, I hope they sort it for you mate. By the sounds of it they want to please the customer, so good on you for taking them up on their offer :icon_thumright:

    P.S. Dont leave Bucks without your sausages!! :)
    #17
  19. phantom
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    phantom On Boost

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    [Jun 30, 2008]
    I agree with you on what your saying , but not in this case , if it was one of the other maps , GIAC or Revo then yes. ( going by saturdays results )

    Take Iggu's " peak " figures and compaire them with Kontrabands.

    291 / 298 for Iggu and 294 / 291 for Kontraband i don't care if it drives a little better on the road , for the best part of £ 500 i want it to drive " a lot " better and the fact that in theroy you are voiding your warrenty , and paying out extra insurance.

    Now if you got 310bhp and 320lbft then, the drive would be worth the extra. :icon_thumright:

    p
    #18
  20. jamiekip
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    jamiekip Guest

    [Jun 30, 2008]
    I think what Mark b is meaning is (and the numbers below are purely hypothetical to help get the point across!):
    * say the standard car puts out it's peak torque and power over 3000 to 5000rpm
    * then say the bluefin'd car put's out it's peak torque and power from 2500 to 6000rpm

    So Bluefin (hypothetically) gives you more power over more of the rev range - a good thing!
    The bluefin'd car will have a very different driving behaviour to the standard car, it will pull more keenly in every gear, even though the headline figure doesn't look that great!
    So even though the figures aren't brilliant it could make a positive difference tot he driving experience. I think Iggu has already suggested he's noticed the difference.

    However, I do agree, and this goes against the results from all the chipped cars, that when you buy a chip, and it says it will give you 310bhp and 320lb/ft it's kind of what you'd expect to see. I know every car is different, but it should deliver within 2-3bhp or lb/ft of what it says it should.
    In fairness the bluefin is closer to it's published figures than the GIAC cars.

    It would be good if all the guys could post the RR graphs, so someone (with more skill than me!) can try and map them over each other so we can see exactly what all of the chips did to the characteristics of each car - I don't know about anyone else, but I'd find that really interesting.

    Either way, hat off to superchips for supporting Iggu on this!
    #19
  21. Kontraband
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    Kontraband Active Member

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    [Jun 30, 2008]
    I guess the low published figures by audi make us expect to see much more at the RR day. perhaps cause the stocks were running way higher the overall picture doesnt look as good. If you took the stocks out and used the published 265 then I think the mapped lot would be happier??

    Would be interesting to get the graphs done. Trying to think of a way to do it? Perhaps a load of ohp sheets thru the copier at work?? ;)


    and if SC sort you a new map out, perhaps it'll be the SC Iggu Map? ;)
    #20
  22. jamiekip
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    jamiekip Guest

    [Jun 30, 2008]
    ha ha, classic!
    #21
  23. phantom
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    phantom On Boost

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    [Jun 30, 2008]
    I do agree with you and Mark B...Jamie , but in the case of the figures we saw on saturday the Bluefin map wouldn't be positive enough to warrent VFM over a Std car IMHO , not to mention warrenty and insurance issues.

    Revo or GIAC map's would still be a worth while mod to do , in the case of Revo 320bhp / 310lbft or GIAC's 310bhp / 325lbft ( the GIAC was a rough converstion from QuickNicks and Kris's runs )

    Either way significant gain over Std and Bluefin, which will translate into a " even more positive drive " than Bluefin.

    By the looks of it , it comes down to either the top end power of the Revo , or the low down grunt of the GIAC IMHO.

    Unless Superchips get some VINEGAR on em!

    The choice is ours. :thumbsup:

    p
    #22
  24. jamiekip
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    jamiekip Guest

    [Jun 30, 2008]
    Gotcha mate - you're completely right on the bang per buck comment!

    I have to admit, if I can get a GIAC with 40% off like someone did at GTI International i'm on it!
    I caught up with jonnyc very briefly on Sunday before making the trip back to London, he took me out for a quick spin in his car and the low end torque completely shamed my motor and he says the exhaust he has promotes top end power at the expense of ultimate low end power.... his car is effing quick and he only gave it a brief squirt in 3rd!!! I know his car is pretty extreme, but he did say when he first had it done, the low end grunt offered from the chip was like night and day compared to the standard car.

    I will be looking do have my car on a RR before and then the same RR after so I can actually see exactly what impact it has had.
    #23
  25. Iggu
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    Iggu Active Member

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    [Jun 30, 2008]
    The big positive here is how Audi (in a typically understated fashion) are quietly sending out standard S3 cars with well over 290 bhp onto the market. Soon, Ford will launch their FWD Focus RS with 280 bhp and will claim it to be "the most powerful hot hatch on the market". To which we S3 owners can simply smile in our secret knowledge that they're not even close.

    Well done Audi I say. To continue my analogy from before - with Audi you buy a tin of standard Heinz Baked Beans and when you open it there are two big juicy sausages thrown in for FREE.

    I'll keep this thread updated with the "Bluefin Iggu Map" every step of the way. Cheers for your comments folks.
    #24
  26. newbiecrg
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    newbiecrg windsurfer

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    [Jun 30, 2008]
    is not unusual for the VAG power figures to be on the conservative side... Makes a big difference when tax on a new car is calculated concerning power claimed... as in Germany! Or at least it was like that some years back...

    Pedro
    #25
  27. S3IZZO
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    S3IZZO Guest

    [Jul 1, 2008]
    Happy for anyone to have a drive in my car at the next meet (whenever that may be) to have a play with Revo, alternatively they do the trial also.

    I think GIAC and Revo are leading the way in terms of maps for the 2.0TFSI, custom-code also worth a look although seemed less agressive in peak figures.
    #26
  28. PaulAr
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    PaulAr S3 (8P)

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    [Jul 1, 2008]
    If these std figures of around 290bhp are indeed accurate then IMHO, a £500+ remap just doesnt give you enough over std to spend the money.

    Maybe Ive been spoilt in the past, but I couldnt spend that money to see less than 10% increase in bhp and relatively modest increases in torque. I appreciate it also improves drive-abilty but its not like the drive-abilty is poor in std tune !

    I had REVO on my MK5 and it was transformed, you could feel the extra 250bhp and extra torque from the minute it was tuned, it was brilliant and I would want the same kind of improvement again. Not so on the S3 it would seem?
    I never heard of a MK5 owner being underwhelmed after reamap but it seems too many S3 owners are a bit disappointed post remap.

    Perversely Im almost dissapointed std S3 are putting out figures way over book as I really wanted to feel that big jump in performance again.

    Guess I would have to see a before and after dyno plot and have a run out in a mapped car before I parted with my cash.
    If REVO werent so damn expensive,I would go to my local guy for a trial but as Im set on having the switch, theres not way I would pay REVOs over inflated prices.

    Cheers guys:icon_thumright:
    Paul
    #27
  29. Iggu
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    Iggu Active Member

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    [Jul 1, 2008]
    Totally agree. Goes for ANY remap. For £500+ you want a GAIN of at least 45bhp and 45lb/ft over what you start with.
    #28
  30. phantom
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    phantom On Boost

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    [Jul 1, 2008]
    What about getting the remap and next wage's day get the SPS?

    Can it be bought at a later date?

    p
    #29
  31. S3IZZO
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    S3IZZO Guest

    [Jul 1, 2008]
    £500 for a gain of 30bhp sounds amazing value for money to me.
    #30
  32. Iggu
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    Iggu Active Member

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    [Jul 1, 2008]
    Not if you're promised more (45) as an inducement to purchase. How can that be VFM ?
    #31
  33. S3IZZO
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    S3IZZO Guest

    [Jul 1, 2008]
    I wouldn't completely blame that on the tuners, Audi themselves quote the BHP of the car being 265bhp. How can the likes of Revo/GIAC say, well your car *could* have 285-295 standard when it may infact vary dependant on the fuel you use or the way your car has been broken in.

    On *Audi's* figures you are getting those gains, you can't blame the fact they are over powered standard on the guys making the maps.
    #32
  34. Kontraband
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    Kontraband Active Member

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    [Jul 1, 2008]
    yeah, thats true.. but personally, I'd kind of expect a tuner to have a knowledge of the cars they are tweakin? Its bad research really isnt it?
    #33
  35. Iggu
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    Iggu Active Member

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    [Jul 1, 2008]
    If we at ASN know that standard cars are 285bhp+ then the tuning companies sure will as well. So they deliberately quote the VAG figures they KNOW to be low to make their gains look higher than they could ever be. Cynical marketing.

    A more honest approach would be to simply say "we can tune your car to 315bhp" rather than claim in their marketing (as they all do) that "you will gain 45bhp". They must know this to be false from their own RR readouts.
    #34
  36. S3IZZO
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    S3IZZO Guest

    [Jul 1, 2008]
    Not really, they quote the end result (300bhp-330bhp)...it's you who adds the +BHP or % figure based on what Audi say.

    It's impossible to say that all S3's will be producing above book figures, although from the small cross section we've tested that's entirely likely.

    In the real world how would these tuners get access to that may cars when they produce maps for so many models.

    Also for your £500, what else can you do to the car that makes such a massive difference in the way it performs and drives?

    I'm more than happy to turn my map off and let people feel the difference between night and day. ;)
    #35
  37. Iggu
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    Iggu Active Member

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    [Jul 1, 2008]
    Only half true - they ALL (GIAC, Revo, SP) quote the GAIN. I'm not knocking anyone's experience of the drive or their remap. Not at all. But the facts - backed up by numbers and graphical readouts we all saw last Saturday - show that these GAINS are a false mistatement.

    The only area that can be disputed is whether they know it or are in the dark about S3 standard outputs when they put their marketing literature together. I know what I believe.
    #36
  38. Kontraband
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    Kontraband Active Member

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    [Jul 1, 2008]
    yeah, I hear exactly what your saying... they couldnt possibly say its true for all cars. Its a bit wild though, to work on a one size fits all, when clearly it doesnt. Perhaps if as might be in this case, they investigate Iggus car some more, and the results from here, they would have a much more informed product?

    Saying that of course, I dont know what they have actually done. Maybe they did run a load of car stock, and its only 07/08 plates! Who knows? ;)
    #37
  39. PaulAr
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    PaulAr S3 (8P)

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    [Jul 1, 2008]
    Its the principle mate.

    What do REVO think they have thats worth £400 more than some of their competitors?

    Yes they are good, but £400 better than SC, GIAC ?????

    cheers
    Paul
    #38
  40. S3IZZO
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    S3IZZO Guest

    [Jul 1, 2008]
    £400? - Price of revo is £500, where do you get GIAC for £100? :think:
    #39
  41. SteveTDCi
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    SteveTDCi Active Member

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    [Jul 1, 2008]
    But if you look at some of the gains they are in line with what companies quote. If you look at superchips site they show a gain of say 40bhp, although this may actually only be an increase in 20bhp over the max bhp recorded, its because the max gain is shown from anywhere in the rev range. Its easier if you look at the maps than it is trying to explain. If they promise 300bhp then thats what you should get.
    #40

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