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UNDERSTEEEEEEERRRRR!!!?!?!?!?!

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by AFDanHef, Jan 10, 2013.

  1. AFDanHef
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    AFDanHef Member

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    [Jan 10, 2013]
    SOOOO MUCH UNDERSTEER!!??

    I took my S3 to the track a few months ago just to see how it would do and there was SOOO much understeer I was on the grass more than the tarmac!! My track car is a Nissan Pulsar GtiR and it is very similar to the S3. (2 dr hatch, 4cyl., turbo, AWD) So I expected the S3 to perform somewhat like the Pulsar but it has tons more understeer. In order to save space and money I am selling the Pulsar and putting some of that money into my S3 so I can use it as a daily driver / semi-track car. I love the way the Pulsar handles the corners! When you would expect it to start to understeer, you just punch the go pedal and the front wheels pull you through the corner. I guess the difference is the power split between the front and rear wheels. I think the Pulsar is 40 front & 60 rear as I think the S3 is the opposite?? Also, I'm sure the huge weight difference between them doesn't help much either.

    What do you guys think? Either way, what can I do to get rid of some of this understeer.

    Thanks
    #1
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  3. cecilthesausage
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    cecilthesausage ...It's Never Finished...

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    [Jan 10, 2013]
    Get an uprated Haldex.....
    #2
  4. voorhees
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    voorhees Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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  5. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

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    [Jan 10, 2013]
    Rear R32 ARB will sort it out, what sussy is it running?
    #4
  6. AFDanHef
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    AFDanHef Member

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    [Jan 10, 2013]
    I'm running the Bilstein/Eibach B12 shocks and springs kit.
    #5
  7. AFDanHef
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    AFDanHef Member

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    [Jan 10, 2013]
    Thanks, after reading this thread,

    http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-forum-8l-chassis/56875-s3-suspension-set-up-guide.html

    I think the R32 ARB is a good place to start. What is the size of the stock S3 front ARB? Should I get a smaller front ARB?

    Is the R32 ARB a direct fit?
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2013
    #6
  8. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

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    [Jan 11, 2013]
    I think it is 14mm and i would leave the front,, the r32 is a straight swap over...
    #7
  9. kwistof
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    kwistof South East Events Moderator Regional Rep

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    [Jan 11, 2013]
    I would definitely recommend an R32 rear ARB. Everyone on here was raving about - I didn't realise how much it could change the feel of the car when pushed hard until I had it fitted. I would say it's my best handling mod :)
    #8
  10. s3clarke
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    s3clarke Money grabbing s3!

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    [Jan 11, 2013]
    How much can you pick an r32 roll bar up for?
    #9
  11. ReDBull
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    ReDBull Member

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    [Jan 11, 2013]
    Isn't the Pulsar 4wd system the same as used in the Skyline GT-R's? I've always loved the pulsars.
    #10
  12. voorhees
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    voorhees Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 11, 2013]
    #11
  13. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 11, 2013]
    This does not cure or counter understeer. Anyone who actually thinks a Haldex performance controller makes your car go round bends quicker is dreaming. What it does is make your 4wd more predictable and controllerble(sp?). I didn't/don't need a Haldex Controller to go quicker on bends, even though I have one yet to be fitted in a box somewhere! lol

    To the OP, you need to increase grip balance to the front end in an S3 to go round corners quicker, as the S3 has stacks of grip at the rear, that getting the rear end out is almost impossible unless it's wet, I have experience on this, trust me! :laugh:

    First port of call is to lower the front end to lower the centre of gravity, this does wonders, then uprate the ARBs(I'm just using an R32 rear ARB on mine), then thirdly, aggressive geo settings, that would be the order I do things. Of course you can stick track tyres on, use lighter wheels, reduce the weight of the car etc., it all helps!
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  14. Filth
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    Filth Member

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    [Jan 11, 2013]
    Sorry to hijack the thread but Im getting the R32 ARBS on mine but was doing front and rear. Have you guys left the front out as it wouldn't make much difference or because just the back R32 Arb and standard S3 Front is the best way?

    Im planning on taking mine to the track once sorted a few bits so would like the best option. I need a new front ARB and was just going to get the rear at the same time and do both R32.
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  15. kwistof
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    kwistof South East Events Moderator Regional Rep

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    [Jan 11, 2013]
    I've personally left the same S3 OEM ARB on the front and only upgraded the rear to a larger one and changed all the bushes to powerflex at the same time.
    As JoJo commented above- When I got my coilovers fitted I got the garage to have the front slightly more lower than the rear.
    #14
  16. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

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    [Jan 11, 2013]
    If you put a stiffer front on you are cancelling the effect of the r32 bar, so would need a stiffer rear, or you will be back to square one with a stiffer understeered car
    #15
  17. AFDanHef
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    AFDanHef Member

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    [Jan 11, 2013]
    Thanks all!! I was just about to buy this R32 ARB when I saw that it was for the front. :banghead:

    VW Golf MK4 R32 anti roll bar 23mm arb Leon Audi A3 S3 TT 1.8T | eBay

    Anyway, the search will continue. But that does sound like a good solution. By what I've been reading I think the stiffer rear than front ARB should cut down on the understeer quite a bit.

    I'm not sure about that because the Pulsar engine is mounted laterally as the GTR's engine is longitudinal. I'm sure there are similarities. I do love my Pulsar as well!! It blows me away at how well it hangs with the big boys and it is such a sleeper, cheap car now!! I will be sad to see it go. :sob:
    #16
  18. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 11, 2013]
    It's personal preference, but a front R32 ARB is designed for a heavy V6 engine remember, where the S3's 1.8T is lighter.

    I know what works for me, but not everyone likes their S3 to handle like my one.

    Forgot to add that tyre pressures is a major factor in handling characteristics too. The 8L S3 is quite sensitive to tyre pressure adjustments.
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  19. AFDanHef
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    AFDanHef Member

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    [Jan 11, 2013]
    What kind of tyre pressure would you suggest could cut down on understeer? I would guess less in the front than the rear but how much?
    #18
  20. gen.heinz guderian
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    gen.heinz guderian Well-Known Member Regional Rep VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 11, 2013]
    I would think higher pressure would be better on track. lower would wreck your sidewalls.
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  21. AFDanHef
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    AFDanHef Member

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    [Jan 11, 2013]
    How big is to big of a rear ARB? From searching around I've found many different sizes. The OEM rear R32 ARB is 19mm, which people say is great and makes a good difference. Although, Eibach makes 19mm, 22mm, 25mm, & even 28mm rear ARBs. All these are for either an S3, TT(quattro), or R32. Also, Whiteline make a 20mm & a 22mm which are the same price. Also a good thing about the Eibach and Whitelines are that they are adjustable as well. I've found them priced for not much more than the OEM R32 ARB as well.

    Is it all personal preference or is it the bigger the better?
    #20
  22. Jason.s
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    Jason.s Active Member

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    [Jan 11, 2013]
    28mm for the rear on a quattro? Jesus oversteer machine lol. 19 is just perfect I think. Could go to 21 which I think would be the most I'd personally go to. 19 is a perfect balance though. Only last weekend I fitted the 19mm R32 bar and love it. Understeer has gone almost completely and it turns in so much better.

    How much more for the whiteline or eibachs over the oem?
    #21
  23. roysterdsb
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    roysterdsb Member

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    [Jan 11, 2013]
    A proper mechanical LSD on the front must help pull through the corners and reduce understeer.

    What are the options and what kind of improvements have people seen ?
    #22
  24. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 11, 2013]
    On my car, I use 32F and 34/35R depending on conditions, 35R on a wet track = arse out action! :racer:
    #23
  25. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    [Jan 11, 2013]
    To the op, alot of us big up the r32 rear bar, me included, its *** awesome on a road car, but for you, with your interest in tracks and previously owning a gtir, id deffo go stiffer.


    22r 21f, or a more rear biased 25r 21/22f would be good.

    Remember tho going too stiff can make grip worse, and with stiffer bars you'l need more agressive geo setup to get all of your tyre contact patch working.
    #24
  26. AFDanHef
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    AFDanHef Member

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    [Jan 12, 2013]
    OK, I have searched the world over and driven myself crazy looking for this ARB but this is what I've come up with. I've narrowed it down to 3 ARB's that I can get for around the same price. Which would you guys suggest? Also, I'm American and I work on a military base so I can get cheap shipping from the states to the base. So I can get these parts from the states at a cheaper price on the $.

    Autotech Lightweight 22mm Rear R32 ARB .... this is the one I'm really leaning towards because I think it was really designed for the R32 and is lightweight, plus it is 3 way adjustable and it is the cheapest.

    This is the cheapest I've found it online for $176.95 Golf 4 R32 2003-04 22mm Lightweight Rear Swaybar Complete Kit at evwparts

    I really had my mind made up on the Autotech ARB until I read on several forums that people had bought these and they broke. That was back in 2007 and since then Autotech has acknowledged the problem and revamped the ARB supposedly correcting the problem. They also went above and beyond to offer a nice warranty to anyone who bought the ARB. Anyway, a few big name companies, like JBS, sell this ARB so I would think that it is a good product now.

    The other two I'm looking at are:

    H&R 21mm Rear R32 4Motion ARB .... H&R's reputation speaks for itself and the ARB is also adjustable. Although, it is a little more expensive.

    This is the cheapest I found it online for $209.95 H&R Rear Sway Bar Volkswagen Golf IV 4Motion 2000-2004 2001 2002 2003 71431-21

    Whiteline 20mm or 22mm Rear S3 ARB .... This is the most expensive but like H&R, Whiteline brand speaks for itself plus it is also 3 way adjustable and it is made specifically for the S3. It sells for the same price here in UK as the US so I could order it from here and get it faster.

    The cheapest I found it online is:

    20mm @ $209.95 or £127.67 Whiteline Rear Adjustable Sway Bar 20mm Audi S3 2000-2004 2001 2002 2003 BAR16Z
    22mm @ $239.95 or £148.75 Whiteline Rear Sway bar - 22mm X heavy duty blade adjustable for AWD - Etektuning.com

    What do you guys suggest? I think I've spent way to much time on this!! LOL damn I have to get a life!! Anyway, any feedback is appreciated.​
    #25
  27. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 13, 2013]
    The one I have fitted on my S3 is 19mm, and it is a OEM R32 rear ARB from VW, we just got to our dealers and buy it, as they are around £100 inclusive of tax in the UK.
    #26
  28. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    [Jan 13, 2013]
    Try the autotech. Bargain if you can avoid import charges.
    #27

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