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Un-Sticking Your TDi VNT Turbo Vanes.....

Discussion in 'A4/S4 forum(B5 Chassis)' started by evilscotsman, Nov 5, 2010.

  1. kubick

    kubick New Member

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    Hello,
    I was looking for a solution for my Audi B7 1.9 tdi and found this thread. The problem is when I pull little harder over 2000 rpm, basically on 2nd gear, it kicks two times in a row and then it goes smooth. No error codes. But the thing I am affraid of is the DPF filter. Can it do any harm to it? And maybe a little silly question...Should this procedure clean all the components shown on the diagram above (N18, N239, N75...) or just turbo?
    Thanks a lot
     
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  3. jornlux

    jornlux New Member

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    evilscotsman : you saved the day. And the week, for that sake, since I've been busting myself for several days trying to find out what caused my limping.

    Went through the following after having read dozens of forum posts and troubleshooting tutorials
    - got a VCDS/VAG-COM to track down the error message
    - ran a bucket of tests to test faults with MAF or MAP or N18 or N75 or whatnot
    - vacuum tested the vacuum hoses
    - pressure tested the air intake hoses. Also checked for oil leaks around joints and junctions.
    - checked and cleaned the EGR valve

    Was about to give up when I read this post. Did exactly as you said, plus lubed up the the VNT actuator lever. So far no limpy limpy.
    Amazing ! Thank you so much for the effort ! Big up from Norway.
     
  4. Turbo unit

    Turbo unit Member

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    Hi bud no its wont clean the electricaul componest!..i don't think any body is not paying any attention the procedure every 1 is doing will cause so much bother it can do the following
    1)block pre cat
    2)weld to turbine wheel and take shaft out
    3)end up welding its self back to the vanes
    4)The Mr muscle coould also block the oil feed line in the vnt system.
     
  5. johnjohn

    johnjohn New Member

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    Hi Turbo Unit, can you explain how items 2, 3, & 4 you have posted above can happen ?
     
  6. Turbo unit

    Turbo unit Member

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    2-3/ for starters you ent going to jump in your car rev it straight away? so when the heat kicks in witch is really quick on a turbo, the carbon will act like a foriegn body witch will end up getting hot and sticking to the turbine side or the vanes, if any unwanted carbon does touch the turbine wheel it has a very good chance of taking the shaft out of balance...it does'nt mean it will take the shaft out of balance straight away could last a good few thousand miles(depending on driver)
    4/ The Mr Muscle is a cleaning product that expains if it goes inside the oil line witch tbh is like 1 in a 100....the mr muscle will expained and end up blocking the oil or watering it down even....it could starve the vnt of oil....

    i ent trying to be the big head or know it all on here....just wunna make sure guys know what they are doing because turbos can become a very expensive game
     
  7. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!"
    Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    There is no path from the Turbine housing into the oilways, so theres no possibility that the cleaner could make it into the oil as far as i can see.
     
  8. a3tdi2001

    a3tdi2001 Member

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    +1

    I'm considering doing this clean up and wonder if it might be better to suck all of the used cleaner out from the turbo using a piece of silicone tube and a large syringe? Could the turbo then be cleaned by refilling with something like diesel, or any other suggestions, and emptied in the same way again before starting?
     
  9. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!"
    Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    I expect that vaporising the cleaning fluid into steam is a part of what makes this process work so well, so trying to remove it again probably wont have the desired results.
     
  10. a3tdi2001

    a3tdi2001 Member

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    I read somewhere that the "active ingredient" in the Mr Muscle is sodium hydroxide which is the same as what makes the Innotec fluid work. The Innotec kit has a "Turbo Clean 2 is a specially developed rinse agent to neutralise Turbo Clean 1 and to rinse it together with the carbon and dirt residues." which is added after the cleaner is drained. Any chemists amongst us know what will be good for doing this second part?
     
  11. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!"
    Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    sodium hydroxide is AKA caustic soda. Its a strong alkali so to neutralise it you'd want an acid. I'd imagine though that any strong acid wouldnt be a good idea as then the acid itself could do damage. Perhaps a weak acid like vinegar would be able to neutralise it without causing damage by itself.

    Dont really like the sounds of pouring vinegar into a turbocharger though :p
     
  12. brownycab

    brownycab Member

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    evilscotsman any reason why you have moved your n75 upto near your airbox mate?
     
  13. mattupnorth

    mattupnorth Member

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    Great thread this, but can someone confirm whether this applies to the 110 tdi engine or 2.5 tdi's too? I have a similar powerless issue with a 2.5 TDI 99 reg A4.
     
  14. mika98

    mika98 New Member

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    Thanks evilscotsman, this is brilliant!! My friend told me about this Mr Muscle trick online, I thought he was having a laugh until I Googled and found this thread.

    Quick question about the 3mm tube, what length would I need and how much of it do I put down the EGR hole?
     
  15. Puppy

    Puppy New Member

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    You will need about 1 meter of tubing, get it at B&q for 96p. And you'll need to shove it in about 5 inches, in my case:crying:

    I did this job on my B6 at the weekend, didn't make any difference, but then (touch wood) I wasn't having any problem with the car.

    Took some pictures for the hell of it

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  16. dannyvalley

    dannyvalley New Member

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    need help with diagram plz
     
  17. kadlubek

    kadlubek New Member

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    Hello guys,


    I`ve got Audi a3 8l 110km AHF, going to clean turbo tomorrow . I intend to unscrew the pipe from exhaust to EGR and by a long pipe lead the foam MR MUSCLE in the exhaust part of turbo.

    Is it safe to start engine and go for a powerful ride with MR MUSCLE in CAT and all the exhaust pipes ? I wish I don`t need to unscrew decat pipe from exhaust manifold, cause there is soo little space in a bay, and the bolts are really rusted . As far as I know, the foam will burn out in the few seconds after engine started. I dont want also the cleaning foam to go upper pipe to EGR and then inlet. Am I right?

    I`m also a bit worried if the foam from MR M. can move to exhaust valves and break them ? As far as I know valves are from aluminium ....
    cheers from
    K
     
  18. DodgeT

    DodgeT Member

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    Did this today, thanks for the guide evilscotsman.

    It's made a huge difference, but not got rid of my problem completely....

    Couple of days ago, car started going into limp mode when under load in 4th and 5th, no warning lights, but would go into limp/cut turbo. As soon as you'd turned car off and on again, all was good until 4th/5th under load. Car also sounded deeper than normal, thought there may have been an exhaust leak at first.

    So, checked the exhaust over, couldn't spot anything. Proceeded to take the EGR off (with the help of my bro) and gave it a good clean, as it was really mucky (car has done 215k mind you, 2002 1.9tdi 130 sport). This didn't do anything for the symptons.

    Then my brother found this thread, so this afternoon I got hold of some Mr M and set about doing it. For those asking how far the tube goes into the EGR hole, mine went in about 8 inches. Got quite a few squirts of mr M in before I could see it in the EGR hole. Actuator was rough feeling beforehand, but after only a few minutes, began to feel really smooth.
    Left it the full 2 hours, which gave me chance to stick a new fuel filter on (try to eliminate that too).

    Started up fine, sounded nice, nice smooth idle. Drove gently until engine was warm, then gave it some beans, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, pulled like a train, complete with LOTS of soot!!! Did this a few times up and down the bypass, just pulled so strong all the time couldn't believe it.
    However, just as I was about to go home, I thought "1 more run.." 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, all good, backed off in 5th, then booted again, flat as a flat thing. Slowed down to the r'about, set off back down bypass in 2nd, expecting it to have gone into limp mode but it pulled well again, 2nd, 3rd, but started tailing off in 4th and was quite flat in 5th.

    After consulting my technical advisor (brother) we're wondering whether it could be a boost leak, as its only now happening in the bigger gears where its going to be pulling big boost?

    Any specific areas, pipes to check? Any other ideas?

    TIA.
     
  19. NicktheBrit

    NicktheBrit New Member

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    I just wanted to say thanks to the Evilscotsman for posting this fix. Long story short i bought a 2000 tdi beetle that had a problem of going into limp mode and a check engine light that would come and go at will - but i did buy it with this in mind and paid accordingly. It was gutless, would not rev over 3000 and could leave you in a very sticky situation when overtaking. I knew it was in response to an overboost situation due to the codes i pulled. I read all sorts of horror stories about new turbos and valves and all sorts giving this issue. I read Evilscotsman's post and ordered some Mr Muscle off of Ebay ( no longer living in England it was tougher to get). I figured whilst i tried this fix i would take the antishudder valve/egr off to clean them and also replace all the little vacuum hoses. The anti shudder valve and egr were really coked up with carbon but they did still operate free enough. I also lubed with WD40 the turbo actuator. In truth i did not find this to be particularly sticky but did it all the same. I filled the turbo with Mr muscle and it was nearly 2 hours before i put it all back together and started the car, so the stuff had plenty of time to do its magic. Now i would just like to say that i never found any vacuum pipes with splits or rotted out and the 3 valves/actuators i looked at seemed to work fine. So i don't really know what was the difinitive cause of the problem. What i can tell you is since cleaning the turbo vanes, cleaning/ lubing actuators and replacing the vacuum lines my problems have completely disappeared. I have taken it out and it now revs to well over 4000rpm with ease in all gears (not tried 5th yet but i know it will be fine), pulls like a train in 4th gear at 40mph and has no issues whatsoever. The pick up through the rev range and gears has been totally transformed. I am really pleased with this fix and am truly happy with this little car. It now behaves as i remember them behaving when driving turbo diesels back in the UK. My fiancee has taken it for a spin and was so amazed i think i may have lost the car to her as a daily driver. Thanks again and good luck to anyone else that tries this fix and i hope you get as much success as i did.
     
    Loiiner likes this.
  20. shaz8389

    shaz8389 Member

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  21. _G_

    _G_ Active Member

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    would this be okay to perform on a 2.0T?
     
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  23. martin_addlestone

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    I was considering the EGR blanking - does the ECU need reprogramming once done (i.e. does blanking cause any false error's)?

    Cheers
     
  24. DeNi

    DeNi Member

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    omfg! it helped!, no more limp mode! to be honest i did not beliave in this **** with mr.Muscle,but since i got a quote from garage £400 punds i decided to give it a try. took me about 4 hours ,cause on 53plate audis it abit more difficult since it has egr pipe cooling system or what soever. BUT! it works now and i saved about £400 (that much i got quoted for turbo replace from 51plate passat) thanks!
     
    #62 DeNi, Mar 24, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2013
  25. FUNKYCLIFF

    FUNKYCLIFF Member

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    Ive got an Audi A4 tdi 2000 year and i am wanting to get this done, would anyone know of anybody who could do this in the Derbshire/Nottinghamshire/Sheffield area it would be really appreciated :)
     
  26. Peter Reynolds

    Peter Reynolds New Member

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    After two garages did not cure the problem, the second one(my regular one) said that if I looked around forums I might find a solution. I did. It works - many thanks. Also blanked off the EGR valve and I think I'm getting a couple of mpg better. The turbo seems to whistle a bit, but hey at 175k miles who's worrying? My guess is that the garages knew of the solution but wouldn't do it as it might not be 'official' .
     
    Sandra likes this.
  27. Sandra

    Sandra MODERATOR
    Staff Member Moderator Gold Supporter TeamMisano quattro Audi S3

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    Welcome to audi-sport.net Peter. You will find lots of info about most things audi on here. Enjoy the forum. :) x
     
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  28. kevinmc

    kevinmc New Member

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    Just a tiny question...how far should the actuator move on my A3 2000 1.9tdi.
    I have only the tiniest amount of movement and I mean 1/4', what should I be looking for once its all cleaned up as done the cleaning and still limp every time at 75/80 although the response at the low end is hundreds of % better.

    Thanks
    Kevin
     
  29. Trippy

    Trippy New Member

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    Hi all,
    seems like a great discovery has been made with TDis thanks a lot!
    i just wanted to know if this method could work on the 2.0l BKD engine as fitted on my '06 A3? Has anyone done this before on this engine and if so which pipe do u have to remove to get access to the exhaust side of the turbo? Maybe some pics?

    Looking at my engine bay there doesn't seem to be much room for manoeuvre, plus I'm not really a techie but I'll deffo give it a try since its helped a lot of people:yes:
     
  30. evilscotsman

    evilscotsman Space Cowboy

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    hey kids!

    I am back, with an old skool 80 tdi, same motor as the A4 I think but has a WG turbo, KO3? its a bit foreign, from a vnt so hopefully you all welcome an old soldier lol ;)

    So good to hear after 2 years, people still doing this, and saving £££££

    I invented it, and have no shame in claiming it was my idea lol so everyone who it helped afterwards, good luck to ya ;)

    You can use this on any TDI that has a VNT (variable pitch turbine, variable geometry turbine) German term, and it will work if the problem is a sticking turbo actuator or sticking vnt ring inside the turbo (they are mechanically connected)

    Hope this helps lol im off to find big power on the tdi now - I have designed a MAF amplifier.....details soon. Big power tuning box, no EML, no start up issues, no QA jamming...

    If you messed with the evry mod you wil know what i mean.

    Scott.
     
    #68 evilscotsman, Sep 5, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2013
    PAULF likes this.
  31. Grant_H

    Grant_H Member

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    Hi there!

    I've just tried this trick today on my 2.5 TDi and the results were amazing! Even the turbo 'hiss' seems louder, but most importantly no overboost and limp mode :)

    Thanks again!

    - Grant
     
  32. evilscotsman

    evilscotsman Space Cowboy

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    nice one mate, another happy audite!
     
  33. scr8pdo

    scr8pdo Member

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    This is my little project for today hopefully, if them EGR nuts undo, got plently of Plus gas n wire brush, so yuou rekon dead cold engine then once filled leave for 2 hours, how can i check my actuator arm its really arkward to access but il fin a way, EGR already blanked but still in situ, dunno whether to sling the lot? is it worth the extra aggro? I like the sound of this Mr Muscle trick will report back :)
     
  34. evilscotsman

    evilscotsman Space Cowboy

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    it works, no doubt if your vanes are sticking from oily carbon deposits. if its an audi you have then the actuator should be accessible from the left hand side. when its filled with foam, work the actuator arm up and down till it moves smoothly. Once its moving then button it all up and give it a blast up the motorway.
     
  35. scr8pdo

    scr8pdo Member

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    Cheers buddy just cant seem to see the actuator arm, can see the diaphram and just bout feel the arm underneath ????
     
  36. evilscotsman

    evilscotsman Space Cowboy

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    yeah well on my AFN you could see the actuator drum upside down next to the turbo, a lever sticks out of its underside and thats the one you want to get freed and moving again. I did post pics early on of it somewhere on page one of the thread?

    Oh look a guy above has a good pic, the drum actuator above the turbo with the black vac tube - rhs of the pic

    [​IMG]
     
  37. scr8pdo

    scr8pdo Member

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    Nice one mate :) so its off that diaphram where iam looking for the arm then ? (the silver one, not the black plasstic diapham further to left?)
     
  38. scr8pdo

    scr8pdo Member

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    Sussed it, sussed it, sussed it! cheers chaps :)
     
  39. evilscotsman

    evilscotsman Space Cowboy

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    yaaaay lol yeah the silver one
     
  40. scr8pdo

    scr8pdo Member

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    weather permitting this is happening today, I just got to run my Mrs round, crikey she is one brave girl she is having her beautiful long hair shaved off off for a deaf charity on Saturday so we getting as many sponsers as poss so I running her about for a while this morn/afternoon :)
     
  41. scr8pdo

    scr8pdo Member

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    Sorry double post
     
  42. scr8pdo

    scr8pdo Member

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    As I said, "weather permitting, it rained" but Iam all set for tomorrow if the sun is out, i went and got some new M8 nuts and locking washers, he give me them free RESULT! Then down to Andrew page to pick up my sump plug gasket (£0.19p) BTW, blowlamp on standby, along with the Plus Gas for first try then if it looks/feels dodgy NUT SPLITTER! So one way or the other its gonna get sorted, since I replaced that little 4" long hose that had a split from the I/cooler the car feels rapid now, much quicker. I even bought a cheap set of yellow marrigold gloves for the Mr Muscle :)
     

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