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Turbo upgrade :)

Discussion in 'A4/S4 forum(B5 Chassis)' started by Lee Goodall, Apr 28, 2008.

  1. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    That'd be useful, cheers mate.

    I can get the loom swapped and all running before swapping to the TT MAF.
  2. andysAko4
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    andysAko4 Member

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    Lee , got the same turbo from scroll, :yahoo: any tips on swapping them over.Got your list of parts etc. How long did it take you ? Any difficult parts ? Thks Andy
  3. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    Hi mate,

    No different from fitting any other turbo really. As long as you've got the correct kit and know your way around an engine bay you should be fine.

    Make sure you either replace or give your current oil feed to turbo pipe a good clean. I removed mine and used solvent cleaner until I was certain it was as clean as possible.

    You only need to disconnect the oil drain from turbo to sump at the sump end. Leave it attached to the turbo and remove the turbo with it still attached. It's a right pain to remove from the turbo while still in the car.

    Have you purchased a complete turbo (hot and cold side) or just the cold side to match to your current hot side?
  4. andysAko4
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    andysAko4 Member

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    Jst cold side , but have exhaust manifold,decat pipe,thermosat to fit also also. Is the turbo easy to do. Seen the video on utube but !!!!. alot to be done this weekend lol
  5. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    I think the whole job was about five hours but I did it over two days.

    The most time consuming part is cleaning the existing hot side and getting it to fit to your new cold side in the correct position; For this you will need a very low profile ring spanner or similar. I actually had to take about 2mm off of a spanner to achieve this.
  6. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    Found a ready supply of Bosch TT MAFs but the injectors seem to be illusive little bleeders!

    Looking for either TT 225 injectors to swap with Docurley or failing that a direct swap for mine that will support 280+HP.. anybody got any ideas?
  7. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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  8. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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  9. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    Mark you are a legend!!
  10. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    Anyone looked at injectors from other cars?

    C20LET injectors will be fine upto around 280hp, and so long as the lengths are the same (afaik they are just standard bosch items?) they should work just fine?
  11. Drizz
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    Drizz Project Plush

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    And also VXR injectors
  12. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    I did think that but the only way of knowing for sure would be to test them with the AEB and I was trying to stick to a more pre-tried and tested route.

    Is the only variable height then (and obviously flow)? Surely diameters etc vary between certain injectors?
  13. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I understand there is different impedence and flow pattern. IE twin or quad
  14. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    Yeah this is what I want to be sure of.. I'm trying to identify a similar turbo conversion (power) kit for the AEB to see which injectors are spec'd. Got to be the safest route to take?
  15. Andy.B
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    Andy.B Member

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    If your having a custom map then the spray pattern doesnt matter. All you have to do is get a multimeter and measure the ohmic value of the stock injector and find the same ohmic value in another larger injector. Plus you only get either high ohm injectors and low ohm injectors.

    IIRC audi use 14ohm so anything around 14-16ohm would be fine to use and i think my calculations said to use injectors that are 620cc - 640cc.

    I used to do this all the time of my old fords i used BMW M3 injectors for my Fiesta RST. Same injectors as new bosch beiges but just had a black case instead of beige.
  16. jcb
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    jcb Active Member

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  17. Andy.B
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    Andy.B Member

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    LOL i must have screwed up there when i was remembering, now you say it 540cc does ring a bell... It was over a year ago i did the calculations. :whistle2: and those RC ones were the ones i was looking at at the time.
  18. Drizz
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    Drizz Project Plush

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    Can i just go back to basics here and repeat a couple of things just to put my mind at rest.
    Firstly why cant i just put the turbo from a 225 TT on my QTS then remap?
    Secondly whats difference between a KO3 and KO3s and can i use the latter?
  19. jcb
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    jcb Active Member

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    225tt turbo won;t fit. ones transverse and yours is longitudinal engine layout.

    KO3s has a slightly bigger compressor (I think!). TBH there is not much difference, they both flow next to nothing at high revs and work like hot air pumps when pushed hard.

    you can use the Ko3s and it will give you some room to play with so long as it is off an A4 platform. but you will still run out of efficiency around the 250bhp mark.
  20. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    The reason it doesnt fit is the TT225 Turbo's exhaust housing is part of the exhaust manifold, and the orientation it provides when fitted to a longitudinal engine is wrong.

    The k04-023 (TT) is bigger than the K03s and the K04-015, and this can be seen by the fact that a simple remap on a TT is delivering in excess of 260hp, which even the Outlaw turbo Mark has seems to struggle to achieve.
  21. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    Hmm having said that and done some googling the turbo does look like a seperate bolt on item, and i'm not really sure what the problem is...

    http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i90/xspower/Turbo/022copy.jpg?t=1240419809

    Thats a image from a cheap ebay copy of a k04-022, now i'd never actually use one of those turbos, however its going to look just like a real one, and the only problem i can see is the compressor housing needs turned thru 180 degrees to point downwards...
  22. Drizz
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    Drizz Project Plush

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    I thought the tt would be the same orientation as mine! The reason I ask is the fabricator at work reckons he can make anything fit hence me asking the reasons why it doesn't...
  23. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    The TT is built on the Golf/A3 platform, so uses a transverse engine.

    I THINK the problem is the flange on the exhaust manifold is slightly different, the gasket is certainly a different part number, which might suggest its a bit larger.

    Its one of those things, any time it comes up people say "it doesnt work" but i dunno just how hard someone has actually tried to fit it, or wether they've just taken one look and ran away because it doesnt quite fit properly.

    You might be able to use the entire TT manifold. It will move the position of the turbo but it might still work, would just require some pipework moved assuming it physically fits in the engine bay.
  24. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    Cheers mate,

    Had a good look over the internet and found a few different makes but I think I'll try and get a set of 550cc Genesis as they seem to be rated highly by most tuners.
  25. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    I think the performance of Marks though is most probably down to the map.. the likes of Jabba would be getting 270 - 280HP I would've thought hence the reason for trying to sort out a conversion to a flashable/more capable ECU. Remember Mark is on standard maf and injectors at present too.
  26. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Yeah my map is ok, but i think they have maxed out the MAF and injectors TBH. I know my MAF readings are re scaled for deffo. As if i did a MAF g/s reading i would only have 190 bhp,lol.

    It's deffo an option to use the newer ECU and get it retuned by Jabba. I am sure the unit has more to give, But without know exactly what i need to buy it makes things awkward as things are tight and i cannot afford to throw money away. Tho collecting bits over time could be an option
  27. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    I didn't mean that to sound like I was criticizing your map mark by the way. As you've stated your MAF and injectors are most probably at their limit so there's probably not a lot more to gain without upgrading.. didn't want it to sound like I was doubting your tuners abilities :shutup2:
  28. Drizz
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    Drizz Project Plush

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    If it's a case of replacing the TTs flange for mine then easy peasy! Question then is do I need the maf and injectors too. then there's an option of maybe a T3 if there's a manifold available for my engine that I can weld a t3 flange on
  29. docurley
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    docurley Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    have a read of the sticky on the k04
  30. jcb
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    jcb Active Member

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  31. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    Not a lot of room for cats or silencers lol
  32. Drizz
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    Drizz Project Plush

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    OK so ive had a word with some VW nuts and theyve suggested another method. T28/T3/T4.
    Manifolds are cheap enough, T3s are cheap enough so has anyone any experience of any of these? I think its the way to go with some emeral management. Probably get all that for a grand and although not OE, definitely good stuff...
  33. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    Personally i wouldnt go emerald unless the standard ECU cant be mapped to suit.

    Audi spent millions mapping all the quirks like cold start, barometric compensation etc into their ECU's and while your remap changes the main fuelling maps, these fine tuning maps are all still OE.

    With an aftermarket ECU, you will NEVER get that level of refinement from a day on a rolling road, even with Dave Walker at the controls. Plus the emerald ECU, loom and a mapping session is around a grand before you've even touched the turbo.

    If it was my car, i'd get a manifold with a T28 (T25?) flange, and fit a T28 from a 200sx s14a. They come up on ebay second hand for a couple hundered quid, and are good for 300hp. Get someone GOOD to map the original ECU, like jabbasport or MRC, and you'll be golden.
  34. Drizz
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    Drizz Project Plush

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    I must admit id rather keep the OE wiring/ecu so if it can be mapped to suit then thats good. Why the T28 over the T3?
  35. jcb
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    jcb Active Member

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    SEM is only for the brave and rich.
    you don't need it.

    T3 is a bigger port
    T25/28 is better suited to the lower (2-300) power level turbos you have in mind.
    gives better low down torque and response but will limit our top end.
    if you plan running a huge bullseye turbo or something to give you over 400bhp after 4500rpm then a T3 is a better option as it allows higher flow
  36. Drizz
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    Drizz Project Plush

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    No dont want huge power. My mate runs a T3 on his Series 2 and thats 200hp and is a very capable car. T3 manifolds are very easy to come by, T28s dont seem to be. Plus the turbos themselves seem a lot dearer. Do the benefits outweigh the costs?
  37. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    The T3's fitted to escort RS Turbos arent really suited to a 1.8T, they're waay too small, and wouldnt offer anything over the turbo you have.

    You'd be looking for a T3 from a cossie (sierra), or a T28 from a 200sx s14a. Both the cossie and S14a turbo will be good for 300hp, but the smaller T28 will give you the power with much less lag and much smoother delivery. You might also find a T28(sometimes called a T25) from an escort cossie, but once you apply the ford tax and the cosworth tax they'll likely be silly money.

    A very quick google/ebay search shows up some T25 manifolds for the 1.8T, from the US granted, but they range from very cheap to over 300quid. The Gt28RS and similar turbos usually use the T25 flange, and i think for your power goals it will be perfectly adequate.

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Garrett-T28-T...-BREAKERS_W0QQitemZ260421545500QQcmdZViewItem
  38. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    http://www.thsperformance.co.uk/product/VW|Audi_1.8T_GT_Series_T25|28_Flange_THSCMA-18T-T25
  39. Drizz
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    Drizz Project Plush

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    So why dont more people do it? Is it fabrication of pipework, or the fact its not OE that puts em off?
    My shopping list is written then. Let the buying commence ;)
  40. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    I'm not really sure mate. I know i certainly wouldnt spend £700 on a k04, when they cant do much more than 230-240hp

    Its probably because they're not just a bolt on part. Things like pipework, oil lines, exhaust etc will all need to be made bespokely, and lets face it, most people just want to pay someone to bolt some parts on to their cars, rather than engineering up a good solution for themselves!

    I recon for the cost of a new k04, you could buy the manifold, a used but good T28, and pay for the remap. An extra couple hundered on oil lines and exhaust fabrication and your done.

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