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Turbo upgrade :)

Discussion in 'A4/S4 forum(B5 Chassis)' started by Lee Goodall, Apr 28, 2008.

  1. docurley
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    docurley Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 21, 2009]
    I here Jabba wont be cheap.
  2. Soupie69uk
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    Soupie69uk Owner

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    [Apr 21, 2009]
    What about MRC?

    Not cheap but is maybe worth it?

    Is maybe a case of do it once do it right.
  3. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 21, 2009]
    MRC do one off? Thats whats needed, and we need someone with this knowledge of which ECU is copat with the AEB but flashable,i would assume there is a list somewhere !

    I know the one i have was from a 1999 A3 AGU engined DBC and the ECU is listed as flashable on GIAC's site for instance so am looking for conversion details first then actual tuning details, as i am sure my mpa on my ECU can be read for a base line
  4. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 21, 2009]
    See the stuff i've seen with Vauxhall LET's Motronic M2.7 involves removing the original eeprom and installing an EEPROM emulator into it (its socketed as standard). The emulator is basically a box that hooks upto a laptop and provides live modification of the EEPROM data. This is then live mapped on the rollers and once the program is correct, you can burn the code off to a real eeprom and drop it in the socket.

    I would imagine any tuner thats doing proper live maps will have a setup like this.

    MRC and Jabba seem to be well respected, so i'd look at those to start with.
  5. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    [Apr 22, 2009]
    I've emailed Jabba and asked about ECU compatibility and their mapping capabilities so we'll see..
  6. jcb
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    jcb Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 22, 2009]
    are you drive by cable?
    If so I would be very surprised if Jabba or MRC will touch it. I know this as I wanted a true custom, spend time on the rollers, tweak fuelling and timing, not off the shelf map.
    which they can do.......on a DBC ECU.
    even the guys I spoke to at Custom Code, Star performance, dialynx, Backdraught etc etc all said the same.
    its the reason I got mine overseas.
    you need to speak to someone like Doug or Minhea at MRC and ask them who can do it.
  7. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 22, 2009]
    So a drive by cable couldnt be done over here you saying?

    We are hoping to find a dbc ECU thats flashable hence tunable. Jabba told Andy B that they could custom tune his T28 on his AEB as long as he changed to "x" loom and "x" ECU from a dbc AGU Engine off a Glof/A3 Thats what we are hoping to sort
  8. Soupie69uk
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    Soupie69uk Owner

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    [Apr 22, 2009]
    I would have thought MRC would do DBC as some S4 are arnt they plus they also used to big into S2's.
  9. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 22, 2009]
    all B5 S4's are DBW...
  10. jcb
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    jcb Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 23, 2009]
    that sounds like a DBC conversion to DBW...is that correct?
  11. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    [Apr 23, 2009]
    No it'll still be DBC but with the flashable ECU and a loom modification to fit the AEB.
  12. jcb
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    jcb Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 23, 2009]
    ah, sounds like a good plan.
    how transferable are th ECU's? would have thought a golf/A3 ecu would be miles away for an A4 one.
    will be watching this to see how you get on.

    PS...wouldn;t wait for an email reply from Jabba or MRC...call them ;)
  13. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    [Apr 23, 2009]
    That's what we hope to find out.. apparently somebody somewhere has said it can be done so there's a glimmer of hope.

    Why is it tuners put loads of effort into their websites but can't be bothered with emails?.. gets right on my t!ts.
  14. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 23, 2009]
    Yer i emailed a few companies about clutches for my landrover and only one replied.

    The annoying thing is trying to explain something reasonably complicated over the phone is *****, espeically when the person your talking to then has to investigate and call back etc.

    With an email you can put all the details down on screen, then can investigate properly in their own time without feeling rushed to provide an answer with you hanging on the phone, they can refer back to the email many times while they work everything out, then reply. Plus the reply is then recorded on your computer so you can refer to it later.

    So much easier all round!
  15. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    [Apr 23, 2009]
    Very true. From my experiences with certain tuners if you don't have it down in writing then it's very hard to provide any proof of what has actually been said/agreed.. I know that's fairly negative but so are 'CERTAIN' tuners.

    Emails also log the times and dates etc which can be useful too.
  16. jonnya
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    jonnya Member

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    [Apr 23, 2009]
    I'd be very surprised if Mihnea couldn't tune it. Try MRC and see what they can do (it will
    set you back about 600 quid for a 'real' on the road custom map)
  17. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 23, 2009]
    The pin outs are the same as far as i can tell, not sure of the actual ECU connector yet.

    The AGU ECu has an extra pin for clutch switch but everything else looks to be in place, i am not sure what level of Immo it has but the tuner can De-immo it anyway at the time of tuning. The AGU ECU is Motronic 3.8.3 which is flashable by all accounts so it appears to be a loom mod and a tuning issue, obviously this costs, but then at the moment both Lee and myself have had to replace ECU's due to the chip being removed too many times, in therory any changes you make to the spec would require some kind of map tweakage to ensure the AFR stays within the correct range. This would be sssssoooo much easier if it were a flash job and TBH probably cheaper too
  18. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    [Apr 23, 2009]
    Is there an aftermarket AFR sensor/gauge suitable for the AEB? I need one!
  19. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 23, 2009]
    Yeah you need a wideband, it will come with its own O2 sender that you will need to fit into the exhaust somewhere
  20. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    [Apr 23, 2009]
    Have you done it?.. Take it the wideband is purely for the AFR and you keep the original Lambda.
  21. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 23, 2009]
    Yes the OEm O2 sender stays in place. I did try a narrowband one and it piggy backs off the ECU signal but its not accurate enough for a proper reading. It sort of fluctuates around, i will show you at GTi inter mate
  22. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    [Apr 23, 2009]
    So I could put some sort of kit together using the wideband sensor and a gauge then?

    The kits I've seen are pricey but the parts individually don't seem too bad.
  23. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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  24. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 23, 2009]
    you can get widebands which have a narrowband output which you feed to the stock ECU, or you simply weld another boss on and fit both.

    I'm watching this with interest, its rare for people to actually push boundaries with **** like this, so its good to see you going for it!
  25. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    [Apr 23, 2009]
    I think I'll probably fit a separate wideband sensor and keep the narrowband/standard sensor to the ECU.

    Would be nice to get it fitted before GTI International so I can crank the boost up safely for the Q mile against Mark.
  26. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 23, 2009]
    mind sneak under marks car and unplug his ABS sensors before you head for the strip, that'll remove the unfair advantage ;)
  27. Andy.B
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    Andy.B Member

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    [Apr 23, 2009]
    Lol thanks alot guys you are doing all the running around i should have done a few months ago.

    I can confirm that Jabba will do a custom map on these ECU's as i spoke to the mapper ( he sounds like Joe Pasquale so you know if you have got him or not if you phone)

    He told me to change to a 1998 - 2000 AEB ecu as they have more memory, the best flashing ablities of all the ecus and by far the most tunable.

    To tune mine he would start with a close map on a golf with a T28 hibrid and tweek it all up to suit my audi on the rollers and out on a drive if needed.

    If you guys want to know more just call them they are a very very helpful bunch.
  28. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 23, 2009]
    So not a golf ECU then? just the late model A4 ECU?

    I would stress to ANY of these companies that if they're touching the EEPROM on the board you want it socketed, as its the only sensible way to protect against damaged ECU's from repeated removal and reinstallation of the chip.
  29. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    [Apr 23, 2009]
    Nice one..

    Would they still be DBC from the 1998 - 2000 A4?

    I did think would it be easier to use a later A4 ECU (flashable) as I'd imagine the loom is a closer match but pressumed there was some sort of issue?
  30. Broken Byzan
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    [Apr 23, 2009]
    Andy, your inspiration is driving us, however i am sure you said AGU ECU as the only flashable A4 ECU is the very late DBW and thats not an option for the AEB engined car.

    I am gonna persue this a bit and see where it leads, i already have the 1998 to 2000 loom and ECU on mine and its a chip job to tune, why they don't socket, i don't know.

    Whether this was what you said or nt, it actually makes sense to me to try, i am sure with the correct ECU connector spliced into place that the dash can be matched to the ECU and it will run. I have checked the wiring pin out and it seems the same bar an extra for a clutch switch
  31. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 23, 2009]
    Lee, do you think we should start a fresh thread for ECU upgrade for ease of finding, or leave it in here? As i have some pics of a 98 A4 ECU and a 99 A3 ECU connector/pinouts for comparison
  32. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    [Apr 23, 2009]
    Yeah probably start a new one.. we can link from here for anyone interested when reading this thread.
  33. Andy.B
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    Andy.B Member

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    [Apr 23, 2009]
    Well my ECU is from a Golf GTI from 1999 as thats what i was told to get. Im assuming the A3 ECU is the same bar a different part no.
  34. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    [Apr 23, 2009]
    Is your AEB DBC mate?
  35. Andy.B
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    Andy.B Member

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    [Apr 23, 2009]
    Yes my car is a 1996 AEB DBC FWD. I was told to get the later loom for the A4 from say Marks year car then go out and get a 1998-2000 DBC AGU ecu from a Mk4 Golf GTI.

    On my studies of this ECU i have to say Jabba is correct to say it the ONE to have as all the Mk1 - Mk3 boys wanting to do a 20vT conversion try and get hold of them as they can be de-immo'd and can run the car without any fancy wiring basicly plug and play tuning and can be flashed mapped anytime you like.
  36. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    [Apr 23, 2009]
    I see.. makes sense. Cheers mate.
  37. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    [Apr 23, 2009]
  38. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    [Jun 8, 2009]
    A slight change in direction with my upgrade now..

    Providing that Andy.B's car sale goes through this week I will be purchasing his T28 conversion kit, ECU and Loom.

    This kit will be capable of pushing the standard engine internals to their limit with an upgraded MAF and Injectors (and the right map too). The ECU is a flashable model and as Andy has mentioned in this thread a map used for a Golf with a T28 hybrid conversion will be used and then tweaked to suit the AEB.

    So I'm looking for part numbers for the injectors and MAF which I think will be coming from a TT (225)?

    Oh yeah so I guess this means I will have a K03 SP51R up for grabs if anyone is interested? Performance is between a K03s and a K04-15 and is good for about 225 HP on an AEB with the right map. The turbo has only covered about 9000 miles.

    I also have a mapped ECU although I have to admit the map isn't great!!
  39. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 8, 2009]
    TT injectors wont fit an AEB inlet mani mate, you need some of the aftermarket ones. They arn't too bad IIRC a whole set is around a few hundred dollars new IIRC from the likes of 034.

    The MAF will even fit into the OE airbox if you so wish, tho i assume the T28 would require more space and therefore a different airfilter too
  40. docurley
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    docurley Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jun 8, 2009]
    Mark you sure they dont fit because the US guys always seem to fit them.

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