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Tuning Mods to an A3 1.8T Sport

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by cpt_splash, Jul 4, 2003.

  1. cpt_splash
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    cpt_splash New Member

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    [Jul 4, 2003]
    Hi everyone. I am new to this forum so be gentle!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
    I have an A3 1.8T Sport, 85,000 miles and in need of more performance. I am looking to chip the engine, to say 200bhp, change the brakes, tighten the suspension, maybe add a front spoiler and rear window lip. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
    Does anybody have any good suggestions about which mods to go for? I have looked at all the websites and AmD are the favourite so far, but I would like your experiences. many thanks. Graham /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
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  3. AL_B
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    AL_B Active Member

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    [Jul 4, 2003]
    Welcome to the board Graham.

    You'll get plenty of help and advice from the folk on here. Alternatively, try using the search facility, under the tasks menu. There is a hell-of-a-lot of stuff been posted regarding which chip etc - a lot to trawl through I'm afraid.

    Good luck

    AL
    #2
  4. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jul 5, 2003]
    Hi Graham,

    I have an AmD Remap and i am very pleased with it! Gave me 192bhp and 205lb/t which makes the 1.8T quite quick...

    There are a few things to consider here tho. if you plan otehr mods, then do them first and make the remap hte last thing you do because then they will be able to fully exploit the mods.

    Rich
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  5. Gambba
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    Gambba Active Member

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    [Jul 7, 2003]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Ess_Three said:
    I'm not a fan of either. I know they are both a benchmark...but how many people actually drive like that day in, day out?


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    I think we agree on the same things. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
    #4
  6. GolfTTish
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    GolfTTish Member

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    [Jul 7, 2003]
    It takes more skill to get these results out of a FWD A3.

    But a lot less cash!

    Ess three. My next car cash permitting may well be a modded S3, so don't think I'm not aware of the advantages.. I'm just trying to say that if yours was standard (which it aint), a decent driver in a chipped A3 may give you a seriously hard time. The roads have got to be pretty crappy before traction is a major problem, even in mine. If it was as bad as you sugest, I wouldn't be considering even more power.
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  7. Gambba
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    Gambba Active Member

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    [Jul 7, 2003]
    GolfTTish,

    What are you running on yours to get 250?

    Gambba /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
    #6
  8. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Jul 7, 2003]
    [ QUOTE ]
    GolfTTish said:
    The milltek on an a3 will give you good gains. My glof consistently puts 20-25hp more than chipped golf/a3's/leons at all the rr days I've been to. I believe the milltek turbo back plays a big part in this. The s3 already has faily efficent exhaust/cats, so it's different.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    All I can say is that the A3 exhaust must be one abortion of an exhaust system as standard.
    The Mk4 golf / A3 system is very similar to a Mk3 Golf.

    I got precisely 1 BHP and lost 1 lb-ft out of a full Milltek on my 16v Golf (164 BHP, so power levels are similar)
    The S3 system, as I've already said, gave similarly small gains...only when the boost is significantly increased does it seem to make a difference...but nowhere near 20BHP...maybe 6 or 7 with maybe 20 ish lb-ft of torque.

    I just don't see how the S3 system can be so efficient, the old Golf Mk3 system so efficient, yet VAG got it so wrong with a FWD A3.
    They are all modern cars, with cats, from the same engineering department.


    With regard to your advantages over 'normal' chipped A3s / Golfs etc...
    Could a lot of this not be down to ignition timing?
    I gain very little extra power by upping the boost on my S3...but large gains in torque.
    By advancing the ignition timing I can see good gains in power...since you are Revo'd, could some of your advantage be due to this? Do you have the facility to advance the timing?
    #7
  9. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Jul 7, 2003]
    [ QUOTE ]
    GolfTTish said:
    It takes more skill to get these results out of a FWD A3.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Agreed!

    [ QUOTE ]

    But a lot less cash!


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I'm not sure about that...

    [ QUOTE ]

    Ess three. My next car cash permitting may well be a modded S3, so don't think I'm not aware of the advantages.. I'm just trying to say that if yours was standard (which it aint), a decent driver in a chipped A3 may give you a seriously hard time. The roads have got to be pretty crappy before traction is a major problem, even in mine. If it was as bad as you sugest, I wouldn't be considering even more power.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I agree that a well driven A3 will give an S3 a hard time...but an equally well driven S3 will still have the advantage, in my experience.

    With regard to crappy roads etc, you don't live in the north of Scotland, do you?
    If you did, and you drove in the weather we get, on the roads we have to suffer, you'd experience all the advantages of quattro on a daily basis, all year round!

    #8
  10. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jul 7, 2003]
    [ QUOTE ]
    GolfTTish said:
    It takes more skill to get these results out of a FWD A3.

    But a lot less cash!

    Ess three. My next car cash permitting may well be a modded S3, so don't think I'm not aware of the advantages.. I'm just trying to say that if yours was standard (which it aint), a decent driver in a chipped A3 may give you a seriously hard time. The roads have got to be pretty crappy before traction is a major problem, even in mine. If it was as bad as you sugest, I wouldn't be considering even more power.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Unless the gold is different to the A3, its very difficult to get the power down in first gear... you either get a slow start cos of not enough revs or a slow start cos of wheelspin and it is VERY difficult to get a good start generally. GTI was a good run cos the strip was very grippy... where as santa pod is a smooth surface so traction is more of a problem... plus the fact of heatsoak from queuing up for an hour. Having driven both, the quattro is definately a nicer car to drive... its alot more capable and as Glen has said, 1/4mile and 0-60 is noyl half the story... its the other stuff that makes tyhe most difference. When moving a standard S3 and a chipped A3 will be very close in a straight line... but get it on the twisty roads and its a different story, as you all know.

    Gambba, i doubt it very much that you will be able to get mid 14's as your car is now... Although i know you will try and prove me wrong /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    Rich
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  11. GolfTTish
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    GolfTTish Member

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    [Jul 7, 2003]
    ess three said
    I agree that a well driven A3 will give an S3 a hard time...but an equally well driven S3 will still have the advantage, in my experience.

    With regard to crappy roads etc, you don't live in the north of Scotland, do you?
    If you did, and you drove in the weather we get, on the roads we have to suffer, you'd experience all the advantages of quattro on a daily basis, all year round!


    Nope. If I lived in the north of scotland I'd have no body to race with as there's no bugga there.

    The problem with the standard a3 exhaust is that there's a small downpipe with a realy nasty bend in it, designed to handle 150hp worth of exhaust gasses. When you're trying to stick 30-40% more down it, it's bound to be restrictive. The s3's only got to carry another 15-20 % over it's design when chipped, so not such a big jump. It's prety well established that the down pipe on an a3 or glof is a big restriction when modded.

    My powers achieved primarily by higher boost, with a less restrictive inlet and exhaust. I was achieving nearly 240hp with a standard APR (98) map. But yes I do run a lot of timing now with revo, especialy when I add toluene (most tankfulls). The figure I quote however are on optimax and standard timing.

    Rich. I did a 14.7 at santa pod at the GTI festival recently. Got the fastest MKIV of the day. An AMD 270hp R32's best was 14.9, and I had to wave to him as I passed him 50 yards from the finish line. He trapped 92 to my 99.5mph. I think traction is **** at the POD by the way. I get better traction on the road to be honest.

    My suspension and brakes are faily well sorted, and i lost the back end of my local dealers S3 trying to go around a roundabout at the same speed as the Glof. There realy is nothing in it. But the S3 was standard and I'm sure that with the same sort of money spent on it it would be better.


    Gambba. I'm running just about everything that you can throw at it without replacing the turbo. Look at my sig on UKMKIVS.net for the cars spec. Car was bought new with most options ticked, and it's still cost me less than a 3 year old S3 with all my mods.
    #10
  12. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Jul 7, 2003]
    [ QUOTE ]
    GolfTTish said:

    Nope. If I lived in the north of scotland I'd have no body to race with as there's no bugga there.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Hmm...really?
    May I suggest that you take a trip up north for the impending Scottish meet of the A-S.net...
    I'm sure there are small number of north-of-the-border types who would love to show you southern nancys what it takes to drive on real roads, regardless of the road surface / conditions.
    You'll find no dual carrigeways or motorways on our 'route'..just some good old fashined honest driving roads the likes of which there are not many of in England.

    This run will make Buxton look like a sunday drive with your granny! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

    I'm sure there is a certain S3, S4 and S2/RS2 hybrid that would just love to have you tag along! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


    [ QUOTE ]

    The problem with the standard a3 exhaust is that there's a small downpipe with a realy nasty bend in it, designed to handle 150hp worth of exhaust gasses. When you're trying to stick 30-40% more down it, it's bound to be restrictive.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Fair comment.

    ..I'm assuming that you have changed that on your car?
    If so, the gains you see are hardly reprasentative of your average Milltek (or similar) exhaust system change, are they?...which is what we were speaking about.


    [ QUOTE ]

    The s3's only got to carry another 15-20 % over it's design when chipped, so not such a big jump. It's prety well established that the down pipe on an a3 or glof is a big restriction when modded.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I make 210 to over 274 to be over 30% power increase.
    And torque up from 199 to 332...way over 30-40%.

    but I get your point...the S3 has a better downpipe set up...however, at these sorts of gas flow rates, surely a restriction must also be apparent on an S3?

    [ QUOTE ]

    My powers achieved primarily by higher boost, with a less restrictive inlet and exhaust. I was achieving nearly 240hp with a standard APR (98) map. But yes I do run a lot of timing now with revo, especialy when I add toluene (most tankfulls). The figure I quote however are on optimax and standard timing.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Ok..I'm not surprised you're getting good results with loads of timing advance...
    But that certainly won't account for all your gains...that's a great power figure! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif

    #11
  13. Gambba
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    Gambba Active Member

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    [Jul 7, 2003]
    [ QUOTE ]

    Gambba, i doubt it very much that you will be able to get mid 14's as your car is now... Although i know you will try and prove me wrong /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    Rich

    [/ QUOTE ]

    That's 'cos it isn't staying like it is!! The exhaust is coming, I thought about a decat only but now me's thinking about bigger and better......I wonder if I can save enough for the Oettinger Turbo?? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif
    #12
  14. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Jul 8, 2003]
    [ QUOTE ]
    GolfTTish said:
    Unfortunately 26th/27th is the gti festival at york dragway.
    I think Drystone may be coming to represent us fwd boys though.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Pity you cant make it...I'd liked to have a good look at your golf.
    Yeah, Drystone is making the trip...it should be good craic!


    [ QUOTE ]

    I've looked at egt's with my overworked standard turbo, and they don't get much over 700C. I was surprised, and expected them to peak much higher.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I'm gobsmacked...I expected much higher.
    What peak boost are you running?
    What about sustained boost?
    #13
  15. GolfTTish
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    GolfTTish Member

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    [Jul 8, 2003]
    Running 1.4 bar peak which is sustained up to 5k with 0.9 bar at red line.
    EGT's are definately an issue though. on the rr with everything stone cold the car put 20hp more down on its first run and then settles in at around 250 an all subsequent runs. It flat lines at 250 at 5k, and drops to about 235 at 7K.

    Need a bigger turbo!!
    #14

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