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Tubular Manifold - Yes or No?

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by ShaunS3, May 31, 2012.

  1. ShaunS3
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    ShaunS3 Yorkshire & Humber Rep. Regional Rep

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    [May 31, 2012]
    Hi guys,

    Just wondered if anyone has got a tubular manifold on their cars and how much of a ball-ache they are to fit?

    I am potentially looking at buying this one:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I am not sure who has made it or where it was purchased, but i am told it is new and never fitted.

    Does this look like a quality made manifold or should i steer well clear of this one?

    I have heard JBS is the way to go for the exhaust manifolds....

    Any help appreciated :)

    Shaun.
    #1
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  3. Dani_B19
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    Dani_B19 Audi-sports own special child.

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    [May 31, 2012]
    Mate been covered loads lately.

    The above mani is a xs power one and offers good gains but its the longetivity (that how its spelt) thats the question with it.
    #2
  4. Customboy
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    Customboy Member

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    [May 31, 2012]
    I bought one myself and soon will be fitted as part of my ko4 conversion,but also got standard k04 manifold just incase it does crack, I have heard of issues of them cracking I know the earlier ones had a few issues, but it's mainly down to how u drive and how hard u drive and what ur engine mods are and what ur looking to achieve,
    #3
  5. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [May 31, 2012]
    As said... been done to death... XS Power/Relentless are a good design but suffer from poor quality control and manufacture... they are cheap though... V2 is 'supposed' to be better quality wise so only time will tell...

    JBS manifold looks to be excellent build quality... have a read here though first...
    VWVortex.com - The JBS K04 manifold, reworked

    TSR tubular mani... looks like the best of what the above have to offer... good design and quality build... however... it comes at rather a steep price for what is essentially a K04 manifold...

    All of these manifolds are a chore to fit :)

    <tuffty/>
    #4
  6. Lemon S3
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    Lemon S3 Alex

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    [May 31, 2012]
    I thought the JBS would be simple to fit as its not far off OEM?
    #5
  7. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [May 31, 2012]
    Nope... there is a real tricky nut between runners 3 and 4 from what I remember... and a OEM mani is not exactly simple :)

    <tuffty/>
    #6
  8. ShaunS3
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    ShaunS3 Yorkshire & Humber Rep. Regional Rep

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    [May 31, 2012]
    Cheers guys.

    If I can get this cheap, do we think its worth a gamble?
    #7
  9. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [May 31, 2012]
    your car
    your money
    your choice

    good luck
    #8
  10. Sevv
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    Sevv Pushing the limits..

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    [May 31, 2012]
    quite blunt, to put it in nicer terms mate..i think go for the JBS as Tuffty said or check IE's website they got some good mani's
    #9
  11. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [May 31, 2012]
    I'd be wanting to know who made that before parting with any cash.

    it looks like an XS power / relentless manifold, but it's not!

    The flange is cut for expansion, and there are far fewer cuts and bends in the runners than the XS manifold.

    Almost identical in shape, but not in construction for sure. it's very different!

    tell us where you found this?
    #10
  12. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [May 31, 2012]
    8 obvious differences straight off, and I've just spotted another behind #2 in this pic:

    [​IMG]
    #11
  13. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [May 31, 2012]
    Could be the V3 mani I have heard talk about... one way to prevent welds breaking is to not have welds :)

    Or... could be the chinese making a chinese copy... ;P

    <tuffty/>
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  14. Yohan87
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    Yohan87 Member

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    [May 31, 2012]
    I've heard of issues with the JBS ones. Are they all sorted now?

    When is Version 3 of the relentless coming out?
    #13
  15. ShaunS3
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    ShaunS3 Yorkshire & Humber Rep. Regional Rep

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    [May 31, 2012]
    Very blunt imo. At the end of the day, this is what a forum is for....to share and gain advice from more experienced members in order to make a educated decision. Correct me if i'm wrong?

    Sevv - thanks for the reply mate. I think i'm leaning away from it if i'm honest as the seller has failed to reply to my questions, kinda sets alarm bells ringing imo.
    #14
  16. k1ano
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    k1ano Member

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    [May 31, 2012]
    A question ...

    Does the S3 turbo have a 'stay' to support its weight or is it entirely suspended by the OEM manifold ?

    I would not generally trust a tubular manifold to support a turbocharger without a stay of some sort due to the effects of increasing the risk of fatigue over time, especially of it is time consuming to replace/fix - let alone the cost. This was also re-inforced by Tube-Torque who made me a bespoke tubular manifold many years ago and they insisted I fit it with a turbo support to stop it cracking. Many GT4 owners I know also have issues with cracked tubular manifolds and typically they don't use a stay.

    Sorry for the gratuitous pics but this is my Toyota GT4 with a tubular manifold and it has a large stay underneath the turbo to support it, the OEM cast manifold also has a turbo stay.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    This is the type of stay which is fitted ...

    [​IMG]

    This is a de-cat/downpipe support bracket to stop downpipe cracks due to engine movement ...

    [​IMG]
    Martin
    Last edited: May 31, 2012
    #15
  17. ShaunS3
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    ShaunS3 Yorkshire & Humber Rep. Regional Rep

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    [May 31, 2012]
    Thanks for the detailed response Prawn, just what i need.

    This is one i have seen on ebay, but the seller is failing to respond to my questions on who made it and where was it purchased. That in itself sets alarm bells ringing imo.

    Thanks for highlighting the differences. I can see two different types of welds being used here....can someone explain to me in simple terms the quality/strength of the welds on either example?

    Thanks again Prawn.
    #16
  18. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [May 31, 2012]
    In short, it looks like the XS manifold is fusion welded, where the two tubes are butt welded together and fussed without the addition of welding rod.

    The ebay one looks like it's had Rod fed into the weld as it's done, hence the raised profile around the welds.

    The idea of fussion welding, as I understand it, is that you don't introduce a different grade of metal, which could potentially expand / contract at a different rate to the manifold, adding stresses and possibly leading to cracks.

    The downside though with the XS, is that it's not back purged when welded, so contamination can occur inside the weld greatly reducing it's effectiveness.

    My current manifold is an XS V2 with fussion welds, but after my XS V1 cracked in no time at all, I've had the welds on the collector all reinforced with added 316 rod in an attempt to make it last a bit longer!

    You'll need someone more experienced than me to tell which is better though!
    #17
  19. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [May 31, 2012]
    The std fitment does but not sure if its of any use on the relentless... reason being the stainless steel of the relentless moves a lot (especially being thin walled) and would think this did not help with the issue that Prawn had when his cracked...

    Maybe the V2 will be better especially as Prawns had the collector welded (as Bill now does on ones that he fits).. only time will tell I guess...

    Top mount tubular manis are less of an issue though :)

    <tuffty/>
    #18
  20. sambryant
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    sambryant seat leon cupra r owner

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    [May 31, 2012]
    Its a early v1 relentless manifold with a modded flange.
    #19
  21. Sevv
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    Sevv Pushing the limits..

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    [May 31, 2012]
    Audi Turbo Kits | VW Turbo Kits | Integrated Engineering

    im personally gonna get that one in a few months time :p

    Integrated Engineering Top Mount T3 Turbo Manifold for 1.8T

    its good quality however its around the 645.5 pound mark which is allot and the latter around 387.3 pounds or less
    #20
  22. Yohan87
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    Yohan87 Member

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    [May 31, 2012]
    When is V3 out Sam?

    Failing that, where are people getting there V2's strengthened?
    #21
  23. sambryant
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    sambryant seat leon cupra r owner

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    [May 31, 2012]
    V3 is being developed now so wont be long. Bill is
    #22
  24. IrishDave
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    IrishDave Active Member

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    [May 31, 2012]
    @Yohan. I brought mine to a local welding shop to get strengthened. Cost me 30quid and he went over every weld he could and ported the inside at the ends of the runners to remove the slag.
    #23
  25. Yohan87
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    Yohan87 Member

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    [May 31, 2012]
    Cool, I'll hold off then.

    What's being changed/improved?
    #24
  26. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [May 31, 2012]
    What he said....
    #25
  27. badger5
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    [May 31, 2012]
    very blunt.. lol

    thats how it is.. I dont have time to continually regurgitate the same shyte
    I cannot make it any simpler. looking for guarantee's from this, look elsewhere.

    you pays your money and you takes your choice.

    **SEARCH is a very good function seldom used - XS Manifold, Relentless, K04 manifolds... all will bring a wealth of reading on said subject?**
    Last edited: May 31, 2012
    #26
  28. Yohan87
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    Yohan87 Member

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    [May 31, 2012]
    I don't think paying more always means you get what you pay for.

    If the JBS/TSR ones were cheaper I dare say people would be more willing to try them, but what's to stop you paying £700 odd for a TSR one only for it to crack? It's the nature of car modifying.
    #27
  29. k1ano
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    k1ano Member

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    [May 31, 2012]
    That's a good point Dave, some manifolds have weld deposits, slag, swarf, weld rod left inside and it will be curtains for a turbine if anything drops off - always best to check quality of the internal welds if access is possible, even if just for peace of mind ...

    Martin
    #28
  30. badger5
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    [May 31, 2012]
    the difference is in the construction....... and in this instance, its obvious when seen in the flesh why the likes of the TSR is made of higher quality materials and to a higher standard. you do get what you pay for here. UK company who would warranty it to some level.. it remais to be seen how the relentless v2's perform over time (as I have said numerous times here)
    Last edited: May 31, 2012
    #29
  31. ShaunS3
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    ShaunS3 Yorkshire & Humber Rep. Regional Rep

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    [May 31, 2012]
    Just for your information, i did use the search tool before creating this thread. I searched for 'Tubular Manifold' and about 4 or 5 old threads came up. After reading those threads, i realised they did not provide me with the information i required, so i then proceeded to create my own thread in the correct model section. The reason why i didn't search for XS/Relentless manifold, is because i didn't know who the manifold was made by....which i did state in previous posts, but you seemed to have missed this.

    Please accept my most sincere apologies for taking so much time of your day to reply to a thread on a forum where a member is asking for a little advice, i'm very sorry to have caused you so much inconvenience and know that you will have lots of other important things to be doing than to be replying to posts on a forum.

    Personally, i think that as a forum trader that attitude isn't really good enough. You should be trying to assist where you can and possibly win some kind of business or even creating a good image for yourself for a potential future trading relationship. You should be making me want to have a look at your products with a potential to buy things from you. I will be honest, at the moment i would not deal with anyone who has an attitude like that.

    I do appreciate that new members tend to post threads without searching first and i know it can be annoying. But, i did use the search tool and i do not wish to be treated like i am posting stuff up and wasting peoples time. If i didn't need the help/advice, i would not have posted anything up.

    If you didn't have anything postitive to contribute to the thread, why post in it?
    #30
  32. Dani_B19
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    Dani_B19 Audi-sports own special child.

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    [May 31, 2012]
    Side note.

    Sam whats going to be different on the v3 manifold? The design or the quality?
    #31
  33. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [May 31, 2012]
    I am asking myself that.....

    I am not going to argue with you..

    search some more, and you will in fact see that I contribute a **** load to this and a whole bunch of other forums.. and do in fact have a very +ve "attitude" from majority

    You have caught me on a bad day obviously, and took offence at the blunt reply.. I am direct and I am blunt @ times and I tell it how it is. I dont deal with BS, just how it is reality.

    If my reply, abrupt as it was upset you, I apologise... That was obviously not the intent from me.
    #32
  34. ShaunS3
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    ShaunS3 Yorkshire & Humber Rep. Regional Rep

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    [May 31, 2012]
    Gathering from the info provided by some members within this thread, i have now made my decision and now no longer need to utilise the search tool for this subject. So, my thread has proved effective and helped me decide.

    I did take offence to the blunt reply and was totally shocked that it was coming from a forum trader. First impressions always count! However, i do accept your apology as i do also appreciate that you have to be straight to the point in some instances. In future though, please dont just assume that i am another newbie posting 'repeated' threads left, right and centre just for the sake of it. I always use search before posting.

    I am prepared to put this down to premature assumption and would like to think your attitude towards me will not continue in the same manner. I could easily argue with you and call you all the names under the sun, but thats not cool and not how i deal with things. Everybody deserves a second chance....let's hope Badger5 don't let me down.
    #33
  35. badger5
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    [May 31, 2012]
    Indeed...
    #34
  36. badger5
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    [May 31, 2012]
    I do, as I have precious little time often to be anything other than that.

    From my perspective, and many others, how are people to tell the difference.? ;)
    #35
  37. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [May 31, 2012]
    got an eta on this sam?
    are they doing what was suggested?
    #36
  38. sambryant
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    sambryant seat leon cupra r owner

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    [May 31, 2012]
    The v3 will have fully back purged welds. Same design :)
    this will be as strong as it possibly can.
    #37
  39. ShaunS3
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    ShaunS3 Yorkshire & Humber Rep. Regional Rep

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    [May 31, 2012]
    Any idea on pricing? Or is it yet to be confirmed?
    #38
  40. badger5
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    [May 31, 2012]
    cool.
    a misfire free, high flow k04 exhaust manifold soon then all being well.
    I look fwd to seeing it in the flesh. Refreshing Relentless are prepared to work and improve their manifold design.
    #39
    sambryant likes this.
  41. v5 tt
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    v5 tt Member

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    [May 31, 2012]
    Crikey third time lucky ay ? now if that cracks there will be the V4 they will be saying
    *WE really mean it this time we have improved material* lol they got a great money spinner
    going on here lol exhaust mani has surely got to be one of the toughest parts as the abuse
    it has to endure i just dont think you can skimp on quality you get what you pay for clearly
    #40

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