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TTRS/RS3 brembos onto B7(orB6)

Discussion in 'Audi S4/A4/A4 Cab (B7 Chassis)' started by reido, Sep 30, 2013.

  1. reido
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    reido New Member

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    [Sep 30, 2013]
    Hey all,
    Just bought some TTRS/RS3 brembo callipers with the intention of using them on my B7 A4 PD170 Quattro Avant.

    These seem to be the bargain 4pot brake calipers just now as there is a "product improvement program" (not a recall apparently!) running just now where owners get the callipers, disks ect changed for nowt due to squealing noises.

    Now there is a consensus that there is really nowt wrong with the actual callipers themselves and its more to do with the fitting of the pads and the discs being made of chocolate so I will leave that debate for other threads/discussion.
    Anyway there are plenty of these brakes for sale just now at what seems like very good prices so I took a gamble and I am waiting on delivery of these as we speak.

    As you are probably aware the callipers from mk5 golf, A3, TT, cupras ect mostly fit onto the A4 platform, eg 312mm gti, 345mm R32/s3 callipers all bolt on and with the right A4 disc fitted, jobs a good one!

    So with this in mind the TTRS and RS3 brembos should physically bolt up to the B7 hubs.

    The TTRS/RS3 set up use's a 370mm disc. But the offset and centre bore of these discs are wrong for the A4 so that rules out using the original 370mm disc on the A4.

    Now the B7 RS4 on the other hand uses a 365mm disc so in theory if I had 2.5mm removed from the calliper carrier bracket and the mounting bolts to pull the calliper in that should allow the use of the oem RS4 disc. I say in theory because the offset of the 370mm carriers once bolted to the A4 hub could be out of line for an oem A4 disc anyway.

    A 365mm disc is way overkill for this car and they are expensive but if this can work I would not have to have calliper brackets made so that could outweigh the extra costs?
    The Rs4 discs would be lighter than 320mm/345mm discs aswell so that would be a bonus.

    If I need to have brackets made up I will probably just use 320mm (DTM/all road) Discs or the 345mm(S4)discs.

    Because the Pistons are different sizes I will need to swap round the bleed screws and balance pipe on the callipers because they will be mounted upside-down on the A4. This is also to ensure the smaller piston remains on the leading side of the disc. Just like when fitting Q7/Toureag brembos.

    Any thoughts on this? I have searched all over google ect and not found any definitive answers on these being fitted to an A4 so I thought I would take the plunge!!
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  3. ashley1
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    ashley1 Member

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    [Mar 6, 2014]
    Did you ever fit these? Found a set going fairly cheap, and would be tempted to buy them if I know what discs to buy.

    Cheers!
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  4. Craig Cull
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    Craig Cull Well-Known Member

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    [Mar 6, 2014]
    I looked into this, and it's massively expensive in comparison to the cayenne 6 pot conversion. The disc maybe a little bigger which would look nice, but the cayennes stop on a penny and also look the tits. £600 tops if you do it right. :)
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  5. reido
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    reido New Member

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    [May 6, 2014]
    Sorry this has been a long spread out thread!
    Just to update, I have not as yet been any closer to finding a soloution, mostly because general life has been in the way, such is life!

    I made an attempt to contact Dave Brown who runs Vagbremtechnic but had no luck getting hold of him. I was in touch with a chap called Nathan (N8?) who sells vagbremtechnic products and he was helpful but our communications fizzled out.

    I was attempting to buy the brackets from a kit they made that are for a mk5 golf platform and use the rs3/ttrs callipers and R32 345mm disc's. I even linked to an advert daveB had a while ago to show that they had made them in the past but for whatever reasons he never got back to me. Passat R36 Forum - R36Owners.NET - Passat R36, 3.6 V6 DSG • View topic - Cheap Big 4 Pot Brembo Brake Kit - VWR Branded - With PICS (the RS3, Aston martin and ford GT callipers are basicaly the same as I was led to believe from another link i found during research) another for sale ad Mk5 R32 / Golf R Audi TTRS 4 Pot Caliper derived BBK £695 Pics to follow - For Sale - R32OC | VW Golf R32, Golf R and other .:R Vehicle Owners Club.
    Possibly they had no time/interest or had bigger commitments, better fish to fry ect but I never actualy managed to get in touch with the man himself to clarify anything. Im sure if someone made a bracket to suit it would be a good alternative to the cayenne set up and would use a standard audi disc. If I get no luck soon I will attempt to make up some prototypes from wood or cardboard take measurements ect and see if an engineering shop can help.
    Last edited: May 6, 2014
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  6. Craig Cull
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    Craig Cull Well-Known Member

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    [May 6, 2014]
    I think you would be the first to try, but if the mk5 golf hub was the same, a lot people would use the cayenne set up over the 4 bot brembo's which most use. I can see this bracket being the same as the suspension set up is nothing like. Mock it up and see by all means, but you would be the first person to try it on a B7 that I know of. Apparently they fit with an RS4 disc, but if you was gonna do that, why not have the RS4 Caliper to go with it. From what I've heard about the RS3 is they squeak like a ***** aswell, hence the recall.

    Apologies if this hasn't helped you much but it's better than no answer at all lol! :)
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  7. Craig Cull
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    Craig Cull Well-Known Member

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    [May 6, 2014]
    *cant
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  8. reido
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    reido New Member

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    [May 8, 2014]
    I certainly don’t mind giving it a go that’s for sure, I am convinced this would work (willing to be proved wrong though).

    The mk5 golf platform, R32, Audi S3, TT ect with the 345mm discs use the same calliper carriers as the A4/s4 with 345mm discs.
    That’s pretty much a certainty, even the part numbers are the same. Therefor the bolt holes for the carriers are the same on mk5 golf hubs and A4 hubs. The only major difference between the actual callipers on, for eg R32, R36 and S4 is the Piston size in the calliper itself. They are physically interchangeable apart from that
    .
    The only other difference I can think of between the two set ups is the Disc itself with the offset being different to accommodate the difference in the hub face. (and on the golf it is fitted at the 9 o’clock position, A4 fitted at the 3 o’clock position if that makes sense?).

    Even so, the standard callipers when fitted to either the golf or the A4 will mean the centre line of the calliper is almost identical either way.
    So we assume that any calliper from either the A4 or golf that accommodates a standard 345mm disc and is bolted to either an A4 or the Golf, the centre line of the calliper will be identical (or at least within a suitable tolerance).

    If there is a bracket (such as the one linked to in previous post) that fits the TTRS/RS3 brembo with the standard golf 345mm disc to a mk5 golf platform, I also assume that would have the same centre line like the standard callipers would.

    So if this setup was fitted to an A4, all be it in the 3 o’clock position rather than the 9 o’clock position (irrelevant?) they should also work with the standard S4 345mm disc on an A4.

    The master cylinder on the A4 is the same size as the TTRS/S3 so that should not be an issue.

    Changes/work I can foresee would be -

    Remove TTRS brackets from callipers.
    Swap round the balance pipe and bleed nipples for same reason as when doing the Porsche Brembos (to rearrange the position of different sized pistons)

    Purchase -

    Brackets from that kit linked above.
    Splash shields from an S4. May need to modify or leave out due to calliper fouling?
    Hoses would need to be worked out.
    S4 345mm disks and suitable pads.
    Last edited: May 9, 2014
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  9. reido
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    reido New Member

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    [May 8, 2014]
    "Apparently they fit with an RS4 disc, but if you was gonna do that, why not have the RS4 Caliper to go with it. From what I've heard about the RS3 is they squeak like a ***** aswell, hence the recall.
    Apologies if this hasn't helped you much but it's better than no answer at all lol! "

    No worries mate, lo
    l
    The cost of RS4 discs and pads is astronomical and so are the callipers compared to these ones which can be picked up for a good price because of the recall.

    I think the main contributing factors with the Squeaking are to do with the chocolate discs and the fitting of the pads. (im hoping! lol)
    Gonna give this a go though, if I can get hold of DaveB and he is able to supply the brackets that would be the best solution to get me started I reckon.
    Last edited: May 8, 2014
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  10. DaveB1970
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    DaveB1970 New Member

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    [May 9, 2014]
    Hi Chaps

    Im the Dave Brown, my company is Vagbremtechnic.

    We've done the conversion to fit the TTRS Calipers to the B5 & B7 S4 & RS4, but unless you want to do the conversion properly in preparation for a track day then i don't think it would work.....please let me explain

    We manufacture for Loba Motorsport and also have our AP racing products on 2/3rds of the VW Racing Cup Cars this year, including the top 10 cars from last year. The AP rotors we use are straight from this series and also the Seat Super Copa race series. The method of fixing the bells to the rotors use the same mounting bobbins as a GT Car and the design of the bells also receive extra processes to get front face cooling which is the holy grail for a brake engineer....

    We've been doing this to the TT kits for 4 years now and they work on track, without making this sound like an advert and to make it mod friendly there are a few issues that need to be overcome

    The brackets we have in available to mount the TTRS/RS3 caliper to the B5/7 use the stock B7RS4 offset so strictly speaking you could use a B7 RS4 disc on these brackets with the four pots......the problem is pad sweep, the TTRS uses a 61mm deep pad but the RS4 uses a 54mm tall pad which won't fit on.....

    On the TTRS we offer the 362mm rotor with either a 61mm sweep or a 54mm sweep whether the customer wants to use the 8 pot caliper from the Gallardo R8 or B7 RS4 or the OEM 4 pot caliper with the 61mm sweep disc, most use the 4 pot, pads are cheap and very cost effective and the caliper itself on the TTRS is superb, skinny, VERY rigid, mono block and its the same family of caliper thats used on the TTRS/DB9 and the Ford GT - it works....

    So the B7 RS4 guys have always been able to purchase the B&RS4 replacement disc assembly from Loba with the 54mm sweep, we had an idea to mix the B7 Bell with the TTRS rotor to come up with a hybrid disc assembly that allows the use of the TTRS caliper with the A4

    We just adapted a bracket in CAD and they're available now

    The issue is that you'll need to buy the disc assembly package and brackets as a kit, Im going to be honest and say that you only need to buy our stuff unless

    A

    you need reliable on track performance followed by the ability to drive home the same day and to sainsburys the following morning without drama

    B

    You have a show pony and too much money, in which case for the Porsche 4x4 Calipers and enjoy

    In essence you need a performance reason to buy our stuff but if you do it will work, the kits RRP at £1250 inc VAT just add TTRS calipers and some pads

    That said nobody pays retail because I'm too soft

    Hope this helps...

    Ive got pic of the kit in development somewhere if anybody is interested
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  11. reido
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    reido New Member

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    [May 18, 2014]
    Thanks for getting back to me Dave,

    I would love to be able to buy your full 2piece disc kit but I feel it would be a bit overkill in my circumstances.
    My Audi will probably never see a track so the full kit would be wasted in my case.

    Some would say the 4pots are overkill on a road car but there are a number of reasons I prefer the 4 pot brembos.

    1. I find they are easier to service and work on than the standard set up. Being a more efficient design and outlasting the standard stuff.

    2. The driving experience

    3. Future plans with this car are to get over 280bhp out of it, but I feel its important to get the brakes and handling sorted first as they are a relativity heavy car.

    4. I have already bought the callipers, lol

    would you be interested in doing a NQSB (not quite so big brake kit)brake kit based around this (TTRS) calliper, like you did with the Q7/porsche calipers, a kind of hookover kit to be used with a standard 345mm disc?
    Brackets, hoses and pads?
    (would a bracket for the B7 not also be the same as a Mk5 golf platform, so widening your customer base?)

    This would could give customers a cheaper alternative or a stepping stone to your full 2 piece kit.

    I have read up allot about Daves kits and if anyone is looking for a good reliable performance kit, Dave is >thee< guy to go to.

    Is your website any closer to coming online?
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  12. reido
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    reido New Member

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    [May 31, 2014]
    Just to update, I have found a supplier that has brackets for the TTRS 4pot and are designed to fit the mk5 golf platform and 345mm discs so I am going to trial them on the A4 :thumbsup:Just need to sort out hoses which they will help with too.

    I also have Audi S4 rear callipers and 300mm vented discs to fit aswell, Just sorting out the paint ect on them and other than backplates and hoses for these, im good to go.

    Will update on progress and get photos over the next few weeks hopefully.
    Last edited: May 31, 2014
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  13. reido
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    reido New Member

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    [Jun 9, 2014]
    If anyone is following this, has a TTRS or an RS3, or a car with the brembo callipers from one?

    I found out that there are indeed a number of cars with this family of calliper casting, This actually gives allot more scope and choice when looking for brake pads.

    Brembo sport pad - part number 07.B314.51

    From ECP's the Pagid ttrs pads were £120. Aston Martin pads £160. Mitsubishi EVO pads £30!(also same as subaru impreza)

    When I checked the Pagid brake book, the only difference I noticed was the brake pad sensor preparation and a slight difference in thickness of around 1mm.

    So I went for the cheapo EVO pads, lol.

    Pad sensor is not an issue as mine is bypassed anyway and the EVO pads have what's termed as an audible sensor built in. There may be a difference in compounds used in the various pads but as far as I could work out the EVO and my A4 are similar weights and mine is half the power of an EVO anyway, lol. but for £30, its worth a try and at the end of the day, its not going to be tracked so a road compound is fine to start me off untill I up the power output.

    Also checked the pad up against the S4 disc and the pad sweep looks fine.

    Just waiting on the brackets now before the trial fit.
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  14. reido
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    reido New Member

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    [Jul 31, 2014]
    Finally got these bolted up, and they fit a treat, just need to be bled, will post pictures later, still got the rear S4 brake kit to fit and im in the middle of changing the suspension to bilstein B12/eibach pro kit so car is up on axle stands awaiting parts.

    I used RS4 HEL braided hoses, supplied by same company that supplied the brackets.
    I needed 8mm spacers to clear callipers with my standard wheels.

    Looking good so far, should be done by end of next week once all the parts are here.
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  15. D2NY G
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    D2NY G Well-Known Member

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    [Jul 31, 2014]
    top work fella would be interesting to see the pics, brake conversion is next on my list after a few other jobs :)
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  16. reido
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    reido New Member

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    [Jul 31, 2014]
    Only have iphone pics im afraid and i will have to transfer them to photobucket from the phone to Pc ect before i can upload them so might be a few days before i get them on here. Will give details of parts needed and where i got bits from ect.
    Going to wait until i have driven on them before jumping to conclusions that they will work properly though, very much a prototype situation. Fingers crossed they will be fine though lol
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