1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

TT suspension arms fitted to my A3!!!

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by hatmeow, May 11, 2009.

  1. hatmeow
    Offline

    hatmeow Turbo is the only way....

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    247
    Likes Received:
    0
    [May 11, 2009]
    Guys, just wanted to share my experience of fitting the TT suspension arms to my FWD 2.0T A3.

    The idea came from local trackday GTIs making this mod to make the front track wider. I checked and the A3 turns out to have arms with the same dimensions as the TT but the TT ones are Alloy instead of steel. Also the TT ones have adjustable camber :drool:. I decided to give it a try...

    This is the BEFORE picture...notice that all the suspension bits seem to be in alloy except for the suspension arm. Also notice that the ball joint has 3 bolts with FIXED positions. This does not allow camber adjustments

    [​IMG]

    Here are all the parts that are needed (there will be left and right sets of course) the TT front suspension arm and the lower ball joint.

    [​IMG]



    If you compare the TT ball joint and the regular A3 one the TT ball joint is made of alloy with elongated holes for camber adjustment

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Here is how the arms compare. The original ones are UGLY and Heavy!!

    [​IMG]

    note that the mounting bracktes for the arms are totally different with different dimensions and bushings without holes on the TT (A3 on the left). These need to be taken out with a hydraulic press and swapped. Perfect fit!

    [​IMG]

    After its all fitted, I have increased the camber by another 0.5deg and went for a test drive. The upgrade of the arms does not really make that much of a difference but the camber adjustment really did. In corners when I ususlly get wheelspins, they all but dissappear or are severely reduced. The whole front end feels more solid and "planted". Ride is somehow improved by a little bit (not sure why) without sacrificing control.

    Its a lot of work to get camber adjustment in your A3 but I think it was totally worth it. Especially with my K04 intallation, wheelspin was all too common. Now its much more under control and I can bang on the throtle much earlier than before.
    #1
  2. Ads

    Ads

    [Sep 21, 2014]

  3. Boydie
    Offline

    Boydie Boycie VCDS Map User

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2006
    Messages:
    2,831
    Likes Received:
    192
    [May 11, 2009]
    This might be a future plan! Will have to check the pics when I get home as I cannot see them in work :(
    #2
  4. hatmeow
    Offline

    hatmeow Turbo is the only way....

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    247
    Likes Received:
    0
    [May 11, 2009]
    Boydie... you wont regret this... the front end now feels really planted and solid.

    Now I can put off my plans for a Quaife LSD a little longer :)
    #3
  5. Jamiekip
    Offline

    Jamiekip Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2009
    Messages:
    717
    Likes Received:
    5
    [May 11, 2009]
    I'm guessing this set up is the same as the S3 set up???
    #4
  6. hatmeow
    Offline

    hatmeow Turbo is the only way....

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    247
    Likes Received:
    0
    [May 11, 2009]
    Not sure as the S3 is 4WD and the TTarm is from a FWD TT. The S3 should be about to adjust camber though
    #5
  7. Jamiekip
    Offline

    Jamiekip Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2009
    Messages:
    717
    Likes Received:
    5
    [May 11, 2009]
    Cheers - Do you have the part numbers?
    #6
  8. dunk
    Offline

    dunk Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2003
    Messages:
    765
    Likes Received:
    1
    [May 11, 2009]
    there are 2 alternatives to this:
    1) k-mac adjustable top mounts - they allow adjustable camber (upto -3deg) and caster and technically great, but clunk on sharp bumps in the road

    2) morego fixed bottom arms - they lengthen the steel version of the bottom arm to give you between -1.5 and -1.75deg camber and have oem bushes so dont make any clunks - same idea but not adjustable

    the difference to the a3 with a lot of negative camber is just amazing, never mind expensive coilovers or hard suspension - just stiffer roll bars (particulary the rear) and negative camber and the car is transformed:

    improved grip, turn-in, stability, reduced wheel spin and understeer, less ESP interference
    etc

    the k-macs are about £180 plus fitting and alignment,
    the morego arms are £600 fitted including alignment
    dont know about the tt arms/bushes but i like the idea
    #7
  9. 10blazin
    Offline

    10blazin HYPERDRIVE NEEDED

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2008
    Messages:
    3,301
    Likes Received:
    3
    [May 11, 2009]
    how much was it to do these tt arms pal and will they do quattro sportback 2.0tfsi ..great job by the way
    #8
  10. hatmeow
    Offline

    hatmeow Turbo is the only way....

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    247
    Likes Received:
    0
    [May 11, 2009]
    Not sure if this will fit the Quattro though. I am looking through the papers to find the part numbers and will post them once I find them. I guess you can then compare the part numbers to see if they are the same for the TT quattro.

    It cost me about 700 Euros here in Hong Kong excluding labour so I am not sure if the prices will be the same in UK. I got all the benefits that DUNK mentioned so I guess its worth it!

    Happy modding!!
    #9
  11. dunk
    Offline

    dunk Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2003
    Messages:
    765
    Likes Received:
    1
    [May 11, 2009]
    just trawled through a slightly old copy of etka, and the part numbers i think are:

    ball joint 8J0 407 365 (366) about £31+
    ball joint lock plate 8J0 407 175 (176) no idea
    arm 8J0 407 151D £85+

    there only appears to be one model of arm used for left and right side, 2wd and 4wd as far as i can see but if someone can check these part numbers and prices please
    #10
  12. hatmeow
    Offline

    hatmeow Turbo is the only way....

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    247
    Likes Received:
    0
    [May 12, 2009]
    Went for a very "spirited" run last night and was even more impressed with the way the car handled. I never expected that -0.5 degrees can make so much difference.

    The front now feels like its on rails and I can exit so much earlier and faster. ESP intervention is much reduced and I think this mod is a better investment than a set of good tyres as this really transforms the car like DUNK said.
    #11
  13. phil76
    Offline

    phil76 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2008
    Messages:
    572
    Likes Received:
    40
    [May 12, 2009]
    Looking at this but wouldnt you just be able to fit the ball joints if didnt want to spend on the arms? if the holes are extended in the ball joints thats where the adjustment is right?
    #12
  14. dunk
    Offline

    dunk Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2003
    Messages:
    765
    Likes Received:
    1
    [May 12, 2009]
    probably right about the ball joints though.

    i did some more research - the tt arms/joints will only allow you to add about 0.5deg negative camber

    to gain the maximum advantage you need about -1.5 to -2 for road use - this is where the other 2 options come in - having tried the k-mac top mounts and hating the clunking, i am going for the morego lengthened bottom arms - with eibach pro -30mm springs i have this should give me about -2.0 camber.
    #13
  15. hatmeow
    Offline

    hatmeow Turbo is the only way....

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    247
    Likes Received:
    0
    [May 12, 2009]
    Nope, the ball joints wont fit the metal arms and will only fit the TT alloy arms because there is a flat surface for mating with the adjustment plate on the ball joint.

    As for the 0.5 degree camber mentioned by DUNK, I personally think that is adequate for the street as it feels SUPER!!! Not sure if more camber will make it even better though. I am also concerned about the non OEM route.

    THanks for the research DUNK!
    #14
  16. dunk
    Offline

    dunk Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2003
    Messages:
    765
    Likes Received:
    1
    [May 12, 2009]
    i can say that from my own experience, -0.5 is nowhere near enough for the maximum benefit - i ran -1.75 until i recently removed my adjustable top mounts and am back to -0.5 and have lost masses of turn-in and front end grip - i cant get lift off oversteer anymore either without braking sharply in roundabouts - no more fun,,,,

    as i said, most benefit is about -1.5 to -2.0 or even slightly more for a road car - this wont shred your tyres but you would probably need to run high tyre pressures such as the ones stated for high speed /loaded runs, and make the front and rear tyre pressures the same to help reduce understeer.
    #15
  17. hatmeow
    Offline

    hatmeow Turbo is the only way....

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    247
    Likes Received:
    0
    [May 15, 2009]
    Just got the correct figures back and like to share with you all.

    Dunk was almost right with the part numbers
    ball joint 8J0 407 365 (366)
    arm 8J0 407 151D (Yes one part # for both sides.

    There is no need for the ball joint lock plate (8J0 407 175,176)

    As for the camber adjustment, I have made some mistakes in my previous posts. I double checked with my mechanic and the original spec for A3 is -0.5. With the TT arms set up the current camber is running at -1.5. a full degree more. He mentioned that with the TT arm set up another degree of negative degree is possible but that setting is not recommended for the street.

    So in conclusion the TT arms set up can get you up to a full -2.5 degrees camber. -1.5 now is currently a very good setting for the streets for me.

    Hope this helps!!
    #16
  18. pontias_s3
    Offline

    pontias_s3 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2008
    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    0
    [May 16, 2009]
    Anyone want a pair of S3 Alloy arms?
    #17
  19. mhill
    Offline

    mhill Member VCDS Map User

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2009
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    0
    [May 17, 2009]
    If your giving them away lol
    #18
  20. hatmeow
    Offline

    hatmeow Turbo is the only way....

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    247
    Likes Received:
    0
    [May 20, 2009]
    UPDATE!!

    New info on this mod that I would like to share.

    I took some rough measurements this morning and found out that the mod actually widened my A3's front track by about 20mm. The wheels actually sit out very close to my old set up with 10mm spacers on. This means that if people are intending to really lower the suspension (so there is less than 20mm - 25mm between the tyre and the wing) there is a good chance that it might rub. The only thing to do then is to roll the inner side of the wheel well.

    Also, I have just been told by my mechanic that the mod actually lowers the suspension by another 10mm and he actually had to put up my Coilovers by 10mm to maintain the old ride height. This means that the suspension travel is actually extended by 10mm (which is a good thing) but also means that this mod is recommended to people with coilovers only because then it might be sitting too low and will definately rub.

    The more I drive with this set up, the better I feel about the mod. The front end now really bites hard with very little ESP intervention. I now understand more about my positive feelings as the improvement is not only from the camber adjustment alone but from the widened front track and the extended suspension travel as well. I was originally thinking of getting a LSD (limited slip) to tame the power but now its really not necessary unless for track days.

    Again... mod at your own risk...:) Enjoy!
    #19
  21. dunk
    Offline

    dunk Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2003
    Messages:
    765
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Jun 8, 2009]
    just to update this with some data:

    parts cost £350 including new a3 bushes
    fitting cost me £100

    with -30mm springs (between s-line and s3) i get a minimum of -1deg50' negative camber each side with a widening of the track (235/40/18 on 8x18 et45 just about fit under the arches but dont rub with -2deg camber)

    with my -30mm springs the max negative camber is -2deg20' each side

    my suspension height hasnt changed significantly

    is it worth it? yes yes yes
    #20
  22. hatmeow
    Offline

    hatmeow Turbo is the only way....

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    247
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Jun 10, 2009]
    I hope you liked it as much as I did. I went for a run in the local mountains last weekend and the difference is even more significant. In corners where I had to brake or hold off the throttle I can now accelerate!! I think its crazy and I just enjoy my car so much more now.

    I am surprised that your ride height has not changed. Here is a Photo of the mark from my Coilovers before and after the mod. There is about a 10mm adjustment to keep the ride height.

    [​IMG]
    #21
  23. jon-tfsi
    Offline

    jon-tfsi New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2009
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Jul 3, 2009]
    This Mod is something Im looking into doing.

    I have a couple of questions though!!

    As the new bottom arms are longer, the distance from gearbox to hub will be greater. As the driveshafts are a fixed length am I right in thinking they are on a sliding spline?
    Will this reduce the contact area on the spline and increase the load and possibly increase wear?

    I ask this as I have the option of fitting bottom arms that are approx 14mm longer than the originals and am wondering if they are too long.

    I drive a Leon TFSI Sport by the way which is mechanically very similar to the A3 FWD
    #22
  24. Khufu
    Offline

    Khufu Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    5,703
    Likes Received:
    30
    [Jul 3, 2009]
    14mm longer? What are they off? Hatmeow reckons he has made his 20mm wider with his mod. It sounds like he means in total. I'm guessing that your arms would make yours 28mm in total so it sound a bit too much & i'm thinking your going to get bad tyre wear?
    #23
  25. jon-tfsi
    Offline

    jon-tfsi New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2009
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Jul 4, 2009]
    They are Cupra arm/TT ball joint hybrids. Have only measured them with a tape measure against the steel ones on the car so the measurement may be out by a mm or so.
    I wonder how accurate Hatmeow's 20mm measurement is though?
    I wont know how much they change the camber by until they are on the car and get the alignment checked. Luckily a friends brother works for Kwikfit and charges me next to nothing for Govvy Jobs.
    You might be right about the tyre wear!!! Im hoping for between 1.5 and 2 degrees negative camber ideally.
    #24
  26. hatmeow
    Offline

    hatmeow Turbo is the only way....

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    247
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Jul 5, 2009]
    Well my measurements are really rough (measured from the wings to the wheel surface) and its just a reference figure. I haven't really thought about the extended drive shafts but I know that there are about 2-3 GTIs that have done this locally and of them is used as a track only car and there is no problem with durability for the past year that he has done this.

    I am currently using 1.5 degrees and I am really happy with it and this mod can much better cope with all the torque that the K04 is putting out. I cant comment on the tyre wear as the mod was done only with about 1500kms. However, it really transforms the car into another animal. This mod plus a Qualfe LSD and you can claim to be the best handling FWD on the street...:) With this I really dont care about tyre wear anymore...
    #25
  27. jon-tfsi
    Offline

    jon-tfsi New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2009
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Jul 11, 2009]
    Well it seems like more people are going for this mod. You have started something here Hatmeow!!! Im with you on not worrying too much about tyre wear, the payoff should be worth it.
    The arms I have will be going on some time this week so Im looking forward to getting them tested:sm4:
    #26
  28. dunk
    Offline

    dunk Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2003
    Messages:
    765
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Jul 12, 2009]
    tyre wear is only significant if you go well over -2.0 deg

    on another note, its been proven that less than 3mm tread tyres become significantly more dangerous - using -2.0deg camber, 1 edge of the tyre reaches the wear bar at about the same time as the outer edge gets to 3mm - so it keeps you safer.....
    #27
  29. drsilviuro
    Offline

    drsilviuro Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2009
    Messages:
    121
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Jul 31, 2009]
    #28
  30. gixxer600k4
    Offline

    gixxer600k4 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2009
    Messages:
    692
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Jul 31, 2009]
    i take it that the CV joint allows for this camber, when you say -2.0 degrees camber, does that mean that the wheel is angled so the top of tire is closer to the engine bay or is it opposite way round.
    #29
  31. dunk
    Offline

    dunk Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2003
    Messages:
    765
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Jul 31, 2009]
    when you increase the camber using the longer bottom arms, the bottom of the wheel is moved further out than the top

    if you use adjustable top mounts to achieve negative camber then the bottom of the wheels stay put and the top gets pulled in

    - the cv joints have to allow for the full range of suspension movement so a few degrees off upright isnt going to be a taxing problem - and at neutral position the drive shaft and inner and outer cv joints are always bent anyway cos the wheel centre and centre of the gearbox output dont line up.
    #30
  32. Johnny Bravo
    Offline

    Johnny Bravo 6+1 Gears

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2009
    Messages:
    807
    Likes Received:
    57
    [Oct 8, 2009]
    #31
  33. drsilviuro
    Offline

    drsilviuro Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2009
    Messages:
    121
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Oct 28, 2009]
    Any updates? How are these working on day-to-day routine? How's the tyre wear?
    #32
  34. dunk
    Offline

    dunk Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2003
    Messages:
    765
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Oct 29, 2009]
    drsilviuro

    this is a fantastic upgrade - completely transorms the front end grip and reduces understeer, improves turn-in and doesnt change tyre wear as long as you stick to between -1.5 and -2.0 camber

    just fit and set to minimum available camber on the ball joints, maybe add a little bit more if you are standard height, but i guess anyone fitting these arms will be already lowered or on sport/s-line or s3 suspension
    #33
  35. laurent.d
    Offline

    laurent.d Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    2
    [Nov 5, 2009]
    Hi guys,

    I'm a little bit confused.

    dunk says that TT arms give only -0.5 degree négative camber over OEM arms.

    hatmeow says TT arms give up to a full -2.5 degrees camber that's -2 degrees over OEM arms.

    Who is right?

    You say that TT arms are lighter than A3's. What is the différence of weight?

    I have got morego's arms which gives fantastique front end grip, but I'm planning to swap it for lighter, better looking and adjustable TT arms but only if I can get at least 2,1° of négative camber that the Morego arms gives.

    Thanks for your reply.

    Sorry for my english
    #34
  36. laurent.d
    Offline

    laurent.d Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    2
    [Dec 6, 2009]
    #35
  37. dunk
    Offline

    dunk Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2003
    Messages:
    765
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Dec 11, 2009]
    the tt arms set on minimum give between -1.5 and -1.8 deg although this will be more if you lower the springs more (mine was -1.8 at -30mm springs) and on maximum about -2.2 to -2.5, so they will do exactly what you wanted. the oem setup is about -0.5

    i originally ordered the morego arms, but was concerned about the fixed nature and also wanted the weight loss - and the tt arms are cheaper anyway
    #36
  38. laurent.d
    Offline

    laurent.d Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    2
    [Dec 13, 2009]
    Many thanks dunk for your reply.

    Yes, Morego's look tinkered and are pricey but it works. And at that time I didn't know TT ams would make it.

    Another question:

    Could you confirm that the arm price is about 100£ each?

    Because in France they charge it 230€ (that's 200£) each.

    OEM AUDI S3 front hubs are they alloy?

    OEM AUDI TT front hubs are alloy but I heard they widen the track and I can't go any wider as the top of my front wheels already almost exceed the wings edges.
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2009
    #37
  39. dunk
    Offline

    dunk Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2003
    Messages:
    765
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Dec 14, 2009]
    can confirm the s3 hubs are alloy, cant say whether they change the track though - i doubt it cos the s3 uses the same offset wheels as other a3s and usually use the same et45 to et50 aftermarket wheels

    and yes, the arms were about £85 plus vat from a dealer

    with the bottom arms at the minimum ie about -1.8 deg, my et46 wheels with 235/40/18 looked very slightly sticking out but didnt catch - i have now gone back to 225/40/18 and custom et52 race pro 1.2 wheels, but could manage a spacer of 4mm or so, so even if the hubs do have a slightly bigger track, it shoudnt be a problem if your wheels are higher offset that et45
    #38
  40. laurent.d
    Offline

    laurent.d Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    2
    [Dec 15, 2009]
    Thanks again dunk:icon_thumright:

    85£ each!!!
    :wtf: I have to double check, but they told me 235€ each in France!!!

    Do you know the part numbers and price of Audi S3 alloy hubs?

    I also think A3 and S3 have the same track.
    I have 2,1° of négative camber, 18*8 ET 45 Ultraleggera wheels with 225/40/18 tires and it looks like that:

    [​IMG]
    #39
  41. kgw
    Offline

    kgw New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2010
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Jan 23, 2010]
    Did the OP use his old mounting brackets with the TT bushings, or did he just use the TT mounting bracket whole? It's not quite clear to me. Thx.
    #40

Share This Page