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Trader Dispute - 2.0 TDI A4 S LINE, RE: OIL PUMP CHAIN.

Discussion in 'Audi S4/A4/A4 Cab (B7 Chassis)' started by Fahim, Jun 12, 2010.

  1. Fahim
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    Fahim Member

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    [Jun 12, 2010]
    Hi there. I'm more of a follower than a poster, due to my insufficent knowledge on cars however i'm in a little dilemma and need some advice on what to do, how to go about it and maybe even what to say!


    I moved from a fautless albeit petrol drinking 8L Audi A3 1.6 to a B7 Audi A4 S Line Avant. Engine being the 2.0 TDI, code BLB.

    I bought the car on the 8th of June, and as of today, the 12th of June the car has a very LOUD grinding noise coming from the engine. This i presume is the oil pump chain on its way out or already broken. The RAC patrolman, ex Audi Service Technician said its either the chain or the DMF but to ask Audi for a goodwill contribution towards the costs of repair.

    I bought the car for £6,500 from a Trader. The mileage is 135,500 however the condition of the car is absolutley perfect. Where do i stand as to taking on the trader for the cost of the repair/refund of the vehicle?

    I phoned the trader and he said it was wear and chain and isn't covered but to let him know of the costs of repair from Audi on monday when it goes it. Is he obliged by law to pay for the costs of repair or give me a refund?

    The car has full audi service history except the last service, which was done by a specialist audi garage. Financially, I'm only 19 and i work part time. Saved up for the car and the insurance, but not for any repairs already!


    Legally where do i stand guys and girls? Where do i go from here? Do i take it to Audi, get a estimate, phone the trader and ask him to pay for the repairs or give me a refund? If he says no??


    Thanks for any replies given. Much appreciated!!:rock:
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  2. NHN
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    [Jun 12, 2010]
    Welcome to the forum.

    No disrespect but buying a car with 135k in the 1st place would be questionable mate & yes at that mileage, wear is a certainty IMHO & if he even offers to pay anything your doing well.

    Question, was this noise apparent on purchase, if so did you ask or mention it & if so did he say anything at the time?
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  3. deanski
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    deanski wax on, wax off

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    [Jun 12, 2010]
    forget any warranty he's given you. a car has to be of reasonable quality, if it was a £500 banger you wouldnt have a leg to stand on but seeing as its not you should be ok. phone consumer direct first thing monday. I had the same happen on a honda accord just before i bought the A4. the timing chain snapped and i got a full refund. Know your rights, read up on the sales of goods act. I wouldnt have work started until you have something agreed with the dealer. email him or write him a letter (send recorded post) and also send a copy to trading standards first. Find your nearest office and they'll log the complaint and send a ref number. This is all if it goes tits up. Call the dealer first, be firm yet polite. It doesnt matter if the chains covered or not its all about reasonable use, and the chain going so soon is no way reasonable. So i would-
    get a quote off audi
    call the dealer see what he says. if he says he's not playing ball say you'll have to seek advice from trading standards under the sales of goods act.
    if it gets this far and he still wont play DO NOT use the car. if you do any court will see it as useable and you could do more damage. get the trading standards ref number and send a recorded letter to the dealer and trading standards listing the full list of events and that the car is off the road and you want it repaired or want to reject it and get your money back. This wont be a quick fix though mate so be prepared for the long haul. All being well the dealer will realise he's legally bound to fix it and play ball. The only stumbling block could be the milage. at that mileage a court may rule it was due to go.

    best of luck mate.

    Dean
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  4. Fahim
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    Fahim Member

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    [Jun 12, 2010]
    Dean, thank you for the great advice! I will heed your advice and see if the ball is in my court on monday after towing it to Audi.

    I wouldn't dream of driving the car in this condition. It sounds horrible.

    @NHN: The noise was not apparent when i bought the car, it sounded as a normal diesel does. It had just been put through the MOT the same day and had come from Audi to him a couple of days before. He said the engine was fine because Audi do all their checks on it etc etc before giving it to him.

    I took down 2 of my friends with me when buying the car, so they can vouch for anything I/He said.
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  5. luckydave
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    luckydave Member

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    [Jun 12, 2010]
    The trader by law has to cover the major mechanical items for 3 months. Unless it was a trade sale?

    They key facts are:
    Was the noise heard on the test drive?
    Is the car now classed as undrivable?
    Did the trader instruct you of who to take the car to?

    Your contract is with the seller, you should be returning the car to him, instructing your own inspection/repair will give him a good reason to reject your issue as his problem.

    I would return the car asap or get him with you at the garage when it gets booked in under HIS name.
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  6. Fahim
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    Fahim Member

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    [Jun 12, 2010]
    Hi Lucky Dave.

    The noise was not audible on the test drive No.
    The car is now undrivable yes, as if i was to drive it, the chain would snap or totally destroy the engine if it already is snapped.
    I told the trader I will be taking it to Audi on Monday and he stated to let him know the outcome of the Audi Dealership.

    The trader lives in Addlesbury, near Woking on the otherside of London to me so i doubt he will meet me at a repair centre etc. I can only contact him to let him know the outcome at the moment.

    Have you got any links to this trader law?

    Thanks for the reply. Appreciated.
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  7. rowdyboy
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    [Jun 12, 2010]
    I don't agree with all the comments on the mileage, 135k is nothing on a modern diesel engine. I only ever buy higher mileage cars and so far have never had a problem.
    I do do agree however not to get any work done until the trader agrees. I would take it straight back there for him to sort out. Either demand it is fixed at a mutually agreed garage or you receive a full refund. Polite but firm is the key, I often find the mention of a solicitor helps.
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  8. NHN
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    [Jun 12, 2010]
    Whether cars done 135k modern or not, it will have wear & tear end of, you paid 6.5k for it & its immaculate, you cant expect to not have to do anything to it at that mileage, seriously.

    I find the newer the car is, the more unreliable they are.
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  9. 1wheelonly
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    1wheelonly cabriolet VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 12, 2010]
    i think your all miising the point here, hes TRADER ! so i guess you got a reciept saying sold as seen ? theres no way your going to get anywhere with him.
    a 6k car with 135000 miles on it !!!!!!!! and your suprised ???? its wear mate.
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  10. danA3T
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    danA3T Member

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    [Jun 12, 2010]
    With respect fellas, if he's bought from a dealer as a consumer (which I'm presuming) then the 'sale of good act' applies (google it) as it's reasonable to expect a £6.5k car to be of reasonable quality and to last a reasonable amount of time.

    The comments about being in for the long haul could be well justified. If it comes to it and the dealer doesn't do "the right thing" then it's through the courts you go, which we all know aren't quick. I'd presume it's through the small claims route (moneyclaim.gov.uk) but a strongly worded "letter before action" letter (i.e his last chance to sort it before court) to him might prompt him to to take care of it or give you a refund. Tbh, that'd be my preferred route, let him worry about repairing it, though I believe you have to give him a reasonable opportunity to repair it, if it doesn't drag things out unnecessarily.

    Have a google on the above and bell trading standards on Monday, and good luck!
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  11. Fahim
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    Fahim Member

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    [Jun 12, 2010]
    Hi

    @OneWheelOnly. The reciepts do not say ''Sold as Seen'' and anyway, traders/dealers who write such things in their reciepts haven't a leg to stand on as it means nothing in the eyes of the law. It was a waste of ink. Google it.

    I did buy it for cheap, i know. But saying that, regardless of the price i paid or the mileage, the trader is obliged to sell the car in a reasonable state. Needing 1.5k work done to the car in four days of ownership isn't ''reasonable''.

    I dont mind paying 1/3 of the cost towards the repair, so long as he foots the rest of the bill.

    Thanks for the posts anyway, wether you agree or not! :)
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  12. rowdyboy
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    rowdyboy Member

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    [Jun 12, 2010]
    I wouldn't offer to pay anything mate and I'm sure the law wouldn't require you to. Traders/dealers will try and get out of their obligations but they have a to stick to the law. I agree with the fact at 135k the engine will have wear but that is irrelevant. The trader has to accept liability and should foot the bill for all repairs. Have you actually gone back to them and told them to get it sorted???
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  13. 1wheelonly
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    1wheelonly cabriolet VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 12, 2010]
    fair enough answer mate, im just going by the state of the world we live in and the scumbags we deal with that get away with everything, if hes just a guy trading from home and aint got any funds behind him, then hes probably got no concience either and wont give a monkeys about you or the car, hopefully this wont be the case for you and you get it resolved.
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  14. deanski
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    deanski wax on, wax off

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    [Jun 13, 2010]
    traders aren't allowed to say "sold as seen" its actually illegal for them to put it on a reciept.
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  15. Paul B7
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    [Jun 13, 2010]
    Post number 5 by Luckydave is factually correct and what you must do to meet the requirements of the Sale of Goods Act and establishing a claim at a later date if it should come to this.
    I have had a similar experience in the last month involving Toyota Yaris and this resulted in the dealer refunding my money.
    Good luck, keep calm but the responsibility for sorting this out rests with the dealer who sold you the car and not with you. Remember the car should have been of merchantable quality which in your instance it clearly wasn't. Dealers are well versed in dealing with such issues and rogue traders will put the onus on yourself in the hope you will go away. Good luck and keep us posted .
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  16. Fahim
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    Fahim Member

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    [Jun 13, 2010]
    Thanks for all your replies guys. I feel quite confident now that the law is on my side and i don't have to worry about loosing x amount of money.

    The dealer himself isn't a skanky sorta trader. Far from it. He trades from home, however his house is on a private strech of road, with huge iron gates that open automatically, a large lawn, double garage and what looks to be a 10+ bedroom house. The traders personal car was a Bentley 6.2 twin turbo something or another and also had a chopper motorcycle! Far from poor.

    I haven't been to see the trader as of yet, because he lives an hour away and i have no transport as of yet. Monday morning i'm going to go see him/phone him and ask him what HE wants to DO to repair my car. I'd prefer that than a refund. I'll make sure he knows that the ONUS is on him to prove the car was in reasonable state before sale etc...

    :) :) :)
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  17. Wrath
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    Wrath Well-Known Member

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    [Jun 13, 2010]
    Experienced as I am with this fault on the B7 TDI, my twopence worth is that the fault is something that noone can detect. You only know when it goes, it never gets checked at any part of any service so isn't the traders fault. However, he would probably have to cough up if you thought the car was noisy when you drove it, and maybe assumed this was how diesels sound until you took it to someone who had the same engine and the noise was much less, maybe time to think on this.

    The cost to fix will be just over £2k from a dealer and you won't get any hint of goodwill from Audi if the car has missed being serviced at a main dealer.

    My advice is to speak to a dealer, get exact cost (likely to be £2100 unless the engine and/or turbo is already knackered in which case the cost could be £7000), contact trader with the news and ask for your money back or car to be fixed. I would expect him to not offer anything and he will be wise to people threatening using a solicitor and going to court knowing that few people actually follow this up. This is then the time to contact trading standards at your Local Authority. You will need copies of all paperwork you got from the trader. Question, was the trader operating under a limited company name or just his own?

    Remember my initial paragraph....are you absolutely sure you didn't think the car was a little noisy when you picked it up?
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  18. Fahim
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    Fahim Member

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    [Jun 13, 2010]
    Hi Wrath.

    I can recall that the engine didn't sound noisey at all apart from the usual clatter of a diesel engine. The normal tractor like sound. Fair point that it isn't easy to tell when its about to go, but the law is on my side, so i'll get it repaired or get a refund. Jobs a good un i think.

    I'm taking the car tomorrow to him tomorrow via a trailer truck. Then he said he'll give it to his mechanic to sort out as he's had this in the past too.

    Will update you guys with any news as and when i have any.

    Edit: Wrath, he is dealing under a company name. D A SALES.
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2010
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  19. Dazmo
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    Dazmo Active Member

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    [Jun 13, 2010]
    He will give it to his mechanic lol, yeah im sure he will aswell, abit of sticky tape and glue all sorted for ya!

    Get the work done elsewhere and get your solicitor to send him the bill, end of!
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  20. Fahim
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    Fahim Member

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    [Jun 13, 2010]
    LOL @ Dazmo.

    I don't have a solicitor??! I'm 19 dude! I have no idea where to start. I'll tell him tomorrow face to face that i want the job done at a Audi Specialist or Audi dealership, that we both choose and if he refuses to repair, i'll ask for a refund. If he refuses that, i'll contact Trading Standards.

    You guys are a real God send. Thanks for all your replies. I really do appreciate it. :)
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  21. sspogman
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    sspogman New Member

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    [Jun 15, 2010]
    Hi Fahim,

    You might find this link of some use: http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/consumer-rights

    I used the info contained within to return a 9-3 that had a £1,000 engine fault become apparent the day after buying it - I got a full refund straight away, hopefully you can use the information to get a similar response.

    Good luck! :)

    Steve.
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  22. Fahim
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    Fahim Member

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    [Jun 16, 2010]
    Hi Steve, thank you for the useful post! I'm glad to hear you got your money back.

    Just to update those who have helped me on my dilemma. I just got a call from the trader, a couple of minutes ago. He said that he would be repairing the car, to the tune of £1,200 or near abouts but the parts are on order, so it will take 5-10 days to get them due to a shortage of cogs or something!

    So i'm quite lucky that i got it sorted without getting trading standards involved. Neither did i have to write any letters, or argue with the trader. He was understanding, polite and very quick on sorting everything out. I am paying (whilst the car is stripped down) for the water pump to be replaced and the timing belt for £200 all in so i think all in all it went great.

    The Trader, for those who may ever encounter him is under the name ''D A SALES'' in Addlestone, near Woking.

    He's going away on holiday soon so has sorted everything out so i can pick the car up as soon as its finished whilst he is on leave too. Wants it fixed just as quickly as I do.

    A big THANK YOU to EVERYONE who helped me. If we ever meet up, be sure to remind me to buy you a drink or 10!

    Fahim.
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