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TQS progress thread, From STD-Scroll-Eliminator.

Discussion in 'A4/S4 forum(B5 Chassis)' started by Broken Byzan, Nov 14, 2009.

  1. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 3, 2010]
    That doesnt make any sense then, perhaps its time for a proper dyno run?

    maxed out 380's are probably good for around 300hp... your corrected g/s figs say 300hp, and your pushing 20psi on a k04 frame turbo in a transverse car, which are known to make a lot better power than the longitudinal engines anyway...
  2. slappy_dunbar
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    slappy_dunbar Let's Do This

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    [Apr 3, 2010]
    I know a lot of things seem to be simply pointing to 300bhp, but the Mk1 FrankenTurbo shouldn't be capable of that. Really, neither will our upcoming replacement.

    Anyway, thanks for letting me pick your brains. When we come up with an explanation -- provided it's interesting -- I'll post it.

    dh
  3. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [May 9, 2010]
    Not much change yet due to Rtech currently being unable to do my car due to some missing equipment...

    Although the wheels looked ok, close up they were scabby, so i opted for a clolour change seeing i was bored with the silver that was on there. I didnt really want to go too dark so thought this metalic grey colour would fit the bill .

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The rest of the car could do with a damned good clean, so will tackle that when my cleaning/polishing stuff comes back. As i want her sparkling for my wedding as i am arriving in this, should look good with some ribbons on her :yum:
  4. Foxmeister
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    Foxmeister Fired Up!

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    [May 9, 2010]
    Wheels look good mate, did you paint them yourself?
  5. rasA4
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    rasA4 Four Rings Mafia Specialist

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    [May 9, 2010]
    i quite like the original colour, however the close up shots look quality think once the tyres are clean with some shine
  6. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [May 9, 2010]
    I did yes, took days, and they still are not perfect.

    I can see why people pay to get them done, at least this way they are in a colour i can touch up WHEN i scuff them,lol
  7. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [May 9, 2010]
    My tyre shine and all my detailing **** are in Lancashire atm, will sort it when i get it back ready to be shiney for the wedding
  8. jcb
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    jcb Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [May 10, 2010]
    wheels look good.
    I did a set of RS6's and they looked mint but the lacquer I was sold wasn't hard enough. I think I will skip the lacquer and just use a few extra coats and then some wheel wax.
    I paid a guy to paint my boleros in a two pack epoxy which was meant to be very hardwearing. wasn't happy with the results and still had a bill for £250!

    I would do my own next time if I have a spare set again
  9. Soupie69uk
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    Soupie69uk Owner

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    [May 10, 2010]
    Like the new rim colour.

    I noramally just get mine powder coated as I find it is a lot harder wearing and only costs about £140 and I don't really have to do anything.
  10. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    [May 10, 2010]
    I like the wheels mate. Your car has a nice stealthy look to it now.. which is always good IMO.

    Bet she'll make a brilliant wedding car :thumbsup:
  11. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [May 10, 2010]
    Looking good, although they seem to look a bit green? Perhaps just the light/reflections though!

    I best get this polishing stuff boxed up and shipped down to ya eh!
  12. finesse
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    finesse Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [May 10, 2010]
    Looking good Mark!



    Remap!!


    :whip: :whip:
  13. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [May 11, 2010]
    I am waiting to hear from Rtech as to whether they can actualy still do it. It was scheduled for begining of April but they had some problems. I am now awaiting contact from them to set another date.
  14. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    [May 11, 2010]
    :idea:

    Why don't we club together and buy the kit that we need to map our cars? Sure you and Aragorn could put something together :icon_thumright:
  15. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [May 11, 2010]
    its doable, but unless you've got tens of thousands spare to buy a dyno its all just guess work, and guessing with peoples engines can become very expensive ;)
  16. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    [May 11, 2010]
    To be honest in my experience even some so called 'professional' tuners with dynos seem to struggle so it might not be a brilliant idea. You can't blame me for trying ;)
  17. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [May 11, 2010]
    As Dave Walker said in a recent PPC, anyone with some cash can go rent a workshop, install a dyno and set themselves up as "expert tuners", when infact they're just a bunch of muppets, and the people who suffer are the end users, ie yourself and others in the same boat.

    Because the majority of the work they do is basically installing pre-written chips they can even appear to get good reviews, until the point where you want something a bit bespoke done.
  18. finesse
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    finesse Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 6, 2010]
    updates Mark! :whip::whip:
  19. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 6, 2010]
    not really no, the car has had some cosmetic upgrades

    But the tuner is looking to be impossible to pin down so it looks like the 6 mnths i have been waiting for them has been a waste of time. So the search continues...

    On a postive note the car still goes like stink,lol
  20. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    [Jun 7, 2010]
    She did you proud at the wedding mate :icon_thumright:

    [​IMG]
  21. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 29, 2010]
    Not a great deal gone on bar an oil change to the massive T4 transporter oil filter a good clean and a set of LED lights.

    [​IMG]

    I have done a slight install 6 channel amp powering the front.rears and a small 8 inch sub with a set of Vibe black Air comps.

    [​IMG]

    I also finally got my hands on one of those small reverse cameras that replaces the reg plate lamp, it took some tweaking, but it fitted. This also left me a spare camera so for the hell of it i mounted that at the front.lol

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

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    The wheels have changed colour too

    [​IMG]

    I also added some LEDs into the door handles that light when the interior light operates to aid finding the handles at night.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Also a signature set on the inside handles that light with the lights/illumination so in theory they will dim with the dahs lights too.

    [​IMG]

    Some arty shots, just because
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2010
  22. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    [Jun 29, 2010]
    Nice :icon_thumright:

    You found a boost controller yet dude?

    I need another ME3 ECU now doh!!
  23. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 29, 2010]
    I also have been in communication with some reliabe tuners who i feel can do the car justice with a custom tune. Following their advice i will be looking to install an MBC in parallel to the N75 to smooth out the boost spikes i have recently seen of 1.4Bar, that's rod bending territory.

    They also stated that the calculations used in regards to the fueling and the increase of area of the larger MAF stand true , this sets the car up well ready for when it's time to be tweaked

    I also contacted Sean at scroll for a spec on my turbo as i understand it's not quite the same as they normally use in the Outlaw turbo and have been told i have a 2077 or 5304-123-2077 compressor wheel .

    I am currently trying to find a decent compressor map for it to help in the tuning of said monster
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2010
  24. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 29, 2010]
    Not yet mate, need to recover financially from the weekend also not sure if an Ebay special will suffice or if i need some super duper special one, so i have asked the question.

    Hopefull you can locate an ECU again mate, we have a good month yet to sort it don't we
  25. slappy_dunbar
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    slappy_dunbar Let's Do This

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    [Jun 29, 2010]
    Mark / Byzan

    I am still mulling over your "low budget tuning" modification you described some pages back. The thing I don't understand is how you can actually net more power from this alteration. The reason I'm puzzled is because I'd have thought the ECU, when "seeing" reduced airflow in the hacked MAF housing/sensor, would simply lower the fueling duty cycles to compensate. Naturally, the super-sized injectors would neutralize the reduced on-times but you're still left with a zero-sum result. The only way I can see for a significant boost in power would be through, well, boost. But my understanding is these cars' engines will not raise boost in response to under-par air flow. They simply lower fueling and stubbornly keep the boost curve identical. Can I get a bit of schooling on this?
  26. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    [Jun 29, 2010]
    Yeah, well I have longer as yours will be the guinea pig for tuning :o.k: but we can get the clutch sorted while yours is in as discussed. When would be best for you? I am in Italy from the end of July until the second week in August so either before or after then.

    We've got to get a 1/4 mile against each other next show season for sure!
  27. slappy_dunbar
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    slappy_dunbar Let's Do This

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    [Sep 29, 2010]
    BUMP to resurrect the question above...
  28. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 29, 2010]
    OK, the AEB/AJL engines (and the AGU in the early A3/Golf) dont have a boost sensor.

    This means they base everything on the MAF reading, including N75 duty cycle.

    With the hacked housing, the airflow readings are 37% down on whats actually happening, so the ECU winds up the N75 duty cycle to try and achieve its target flow. Basically, the ECU blindly increases the boost until it sees the correct MAF reading.

    Now obviously if you fitted the MAF alone, because the ECU doesnt know theres more airflow, it doesnt try to add any more fuel, as far as its concerned its trying to make 180hp. As such you need to increase the size of the injectors by the same 37% as the MAF has been increased by.


    Later cars (mainly A3/Golf models, B6's too but they're also on ME7 which is far more advanced) DO have a pressure sensor, and as you say, on those models the ECU will aim for a target PRESSURE rather than a target airflow, and this mod wouldnt work, and would undoubtedly flag a fault code for wonky airflow readings.
  29. docurley
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    docurley Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Sep 29, 2010]
    Nope no codes on the B6 for adding MAF and injectors and boost remains the sam
    e at 9psi.
  30. docurley
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    docurley Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Sep 29, 2010]
    Nope no codes on the B6 for adding MAF and injectors and boost remains the same at 9psi.
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2010
  31. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 29, 2010]
    I guess it just ignores the low MAF then? Fuelling will stay correct because you've fitted the injectors as well.

    I suspect that 9psi on the hybrid will flow a decent amount more than the same pressure on the k03, so you'll probably gain a bit anyway due to that, so maybe the flow readings arent far enough out to cause it to fault.

    Does show that the later ECU's will hold the same pressure though, whereas marks cars running quite a few PSI more after the MAF swap.
  32. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    [Sep 29, 2010]
    So with some careful calculations you could in theory use a previously remapped ECU (to a higher PSI) and then introduce a larger diameter MAF, higher flow injectors, bigger turbo (eg. GT28 lol) and see some big HP figures :detective2:
  33. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 29, 2010]
    Yep, mark tried the golf ecu rather than the AJL one and the power dropped accordingly as its mapped for 150hp not 180, so the other way round would be similar.

    The biggest issue, is the ignition timing. As it stands Marks seems to be fine, but clearly the more you push the engine the further out that timing is going to be. A remap will probably have retarded the timing a little, so you might get away with it, but its dodgy.

    We've taken the assumption that the stock AJL ecu prefers 98octane but can be run on 95 safely, so running the extra power, plus keeping it on 98octane fuel at all times hopefully means we're still just about inside the safety margin, and as its not melted yet, its probably ok :p

    The other consideration is that the boost control might start to get a bit sketchy, so you may need to override the N75.
  34. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    [Sep 29, 2010]
    So to push it much more race fuel and meth injection would be a good idea.. suddenly doesn't seem as tempting lol.
  35. slappy_dunbar
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    slappy_dunbar Let's Do This

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    [Sep 29, 2010]
    Just to be clear on the question:
    On the MAP-less engines such as AEB, when confronted with lowered airflow numbers the ECU will raise boost rather than lower fueling? This is what you've found?
  36. docurley
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    docurley Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Sep 29, 2010]
    And with my B6 metered psi car it controls the boost as it can see whats going on hence no extra boost but power is better, just need to get her mapped.
  37. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 29, 2010]
    That seems to be how it works, yes. It simply adjusts the duty cycle until it gets what it wants.

    If for some reason the airflow wont climb to the desired value (say a broken turbo wastegate, or a bypassed N75 valve), it will pop a code saying something along the lines of "desired charge volume not reached".

    Fuelling is a seperate issue. It fuels for the MAF value that its seeing. So if MAF is low (for whatever reason), it will fuel low. However the TARGET MAF is controlled by adjusting the N75 duty cycle.
  38. slappy_dunbar
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    slappy_dunbar Let's Do This

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    [Oct 5, 2010]
    docurley -- are you showing improved airflow numbers at the same psi? I should think the hybrid would do that for you. Not huge numbers, mind you. But I'd reckon perhaps you'd see 10-12 g/s of extra air with the new hardware. Have you got any logs?
  39. docurley
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    docurley Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 15, 2010]
    VAG lead or laptop not working together but butt gauge say hell yes.
  40. ScrollProducts
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    ScrollProducts turbo guy

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    [Nov 13, 2010]
    Hello,

    This is our first post on Audi Sport, we have been behind the scenes and have no real interest with the spot light like so many of our competitors. Scroll Products is a boutique turbo shop, we build each turbocharger hybrid to our clients preferred specifications. Specifications vary depending on the client, cash flow and horsepower needs, many of our competitors are selling products that were built in sweat shops by small children. We build all of our turbochargers here in Poland with experienced machinist who have hands on working knowledge of Garrett T, GT(small), GT ball bearing, KKK K03-04-06, MHI TD, IHI, Holset. Most of our competitors simply paint lipstick on an asian pig and sell it to you the unknowing consumer.

    This post is not ment to rattle cages just want folks to know we are here and will gladly answer your questions regading any performance turbocharger and or standard turbo rebuild. Keep in mind we rebuild approximatley 600 turbochargers per year from small diesel to large trucks.

    Anyone can sell a turbocharger, not many have the tools required to fix and or upgrade them.

    Thank you,
    Sean Kinch
    Scroll Products

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