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TQS progress thread, From STD-Scroll-Eliminator.

Discussion in 'A4/S4 forum(B5 Chassis)' started by Broken Byzan, Nov 14, 2009.

  1. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 6, 2010]
    The std S4 exhaust splits to a "Y" so i cut off that section.

    The back section will bolt directly on no worries, and i recon any decent exhaust place could stick a Y in the dual section and reduce it to suit the TQS for a few quid.

    When this expires it's probably what i will do myself tbh. I wanted to do it cheaply first, and seeing i can weld mild steel with my dodgy welder i thought this would suffice
  2. jamie226bhp
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    jamie226bhp Member

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    [Feb 6, 2010]
    looking at those ebay one's or the 3" that 034 do for about $800 just need the exchange rate to get better
  3. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 6, 2010]
    tbh, if your going to spend $800, then just take the car to an exhaust place and get a custom system made up...
  4. jamie226bhp
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    jamie226bhp Member

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    [Feb 6, 2010]

    Wasn't sure what they would be like for flow etc as you always hear that an exhaust can make or break all your other mods, my mate can make me one but he's got to buy all the bends and straights and weld them together and i wasn't sure how all the welding would afect the flow charactaristics of the exhaust
  5. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 6, 2010]
    well even with a bit of welding, a 3" system is going to be a damn sight better than the stock 2.25" if your winding up the powar....
  6. jamie226bhp
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    jamie226bhp Member

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    [Feb 6, 2010]
    what 4 bar fpr did you use or are the AJL's already 4 bar
  7. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 6, 2010]
    They already have it.
  8. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 6, 2010]
    I only made a point of mentioning as some tuners use the 3 bar and the injectors are rated at 3bar.

    At 4 bar the increase in flow is 15% from the rated value at 3 BAR.
  9. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 6, 2010]
    EDIT by the maths Aragorn worked out the other day relating to fueling, if i stick my 340's in and run it on a 3bar FPR and the 72mm VR6 MAF, my fueling will only be 1.5% out.....

    If this works out, i will blag the equation from him and post it somewhere
  10. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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  11. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    [Feb 8, 2010]
    :bye:
  12. jcb
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    jcb Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 8, 2010]
    what does "MWU" stand for?

    answers on a post card........
  13. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    [Feb 8, 2010]
    Not sure about the 'U' but the other bits easy.

    Really like the plates.. look very smart.
  14. Geeman
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    Geeman Low Life

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    [Feb 8, 2010]
    Mark something-or-other...

    Had the chance of buying a '95 Audi Coupe with the plate A4 UHT the other week, but let it pass by.
  15. ALPINE
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    ALPINE Yes its diesel, now cry u lost

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    [Feb 8, 2010]
    The U in marks numberplate is for UNTOUCHABLE!!! god thought you lot knew everything!! :p lol
  16. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 8, 2010]
    It stands for, it was cheap and as close as i could get when i bought it,lol

    Mark White But if you sound it out its M Double U, kinda works. MAW ( my initials) seem to be dead expensive
  17. rasA4
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    rasA4 Four Rings Mafia Specialist

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    [Feb 8, 2010]
    it was nice when you had his and hers plates for the Audis
  18. R-Tech-Nick
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    R-Tech-Nick Member

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    [Feb 13, 2010]
    Hello m8,

    With your map it will be a one off map..:cool: wrote in front of your eyes, and you can even have a say on mapping as we are doing it.

    In theory you can just use vagcom and vagtacho to get the 018CJ up and running, I have a guy in Wales who can lend you a hand when it come to coding the ecu and immo he has both tools to do the job, It can easy be patched as an open immo by taking the E2 (serial eeprom) off and changing a few of the hex values, the best way to do it is with the immo inplace, best safe then sorry imo.

    Nick
  19. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 13, 2010]
    Thanks, i think its locked to the old car somehow as i can adapt it to the dash and it all looks good but still kicks in the immo I have vagcom/Tacho.

    I have had it running.I had to "mod" the immo to allow it for testing but am looking forward to maybe making the fix more permenant.

    I can drive to meet your guy if necc if you think it will help so we have some base adaptions stored prior to mapping



    Sorry for the hijack OP.

    Nick if there is anything to add can we continue convo on my build thread
    http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/showthread.php?82912-Budget-Hybrid-Turbo-tuning-on-my-TQS/page3
  20. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 16, 2010]
    Ok, so the parts are fitted, so i persuaded mark to try some redneck tuning!

    The AEB/AJL ECU doesnt have any boost pressure monitoring, it bases everything on the Airflow reading alone. Changing the AFM for a larger unit, means that for a given airflow, the velocity thru the sensor is lower, so the voltage outputted is lower and the ECU "sees" less air, as a result, the ECU will push up the duty cycle on the N75 to attempt to achieve what it thinks is the correct amount of air. Obviously the big problem then is having the fuel to match, so i did some maths to work it out.

    First some research:

    Google provided the following data:
    5v on S4 AFM (73mm ID) is 330g/s
    5v on RS4 AFM (83mm ID) is 430g/s

    430/330 = 30% difference in Airflow

    73mm ID = 41.8cm^2 (3.14 * (7.3/2)^2)
    83mm ID = 54.1cm^2 (3.14 * (8.3/2)^2)

    54.1/41.8 = 29.4% difference in Area

    This shows that peak peak airflow is directly related to area.

    Apply these findings to Marks engine:

    New AFM = 73mm ID = 41.8cm^2
    Old AFM = 62mm ID = 30.2cm^2

    That gives us
    41.8/30.2 = 38.4% difference in Area

    So for any given airflow figure the ECU is seeing, the engines actually swallowing 38.4% more air...

    This is shown my looking at the adaption values, after a few short drives with the 3" AFM fitted the ECU was showing adaption fault codes and lambda multiplicative adaption is jammed at 25%...


    Next we look at fuel:

    Stock AEB injectors are 210cc/min@3bar, however the AEB runs a 4 bar pressure regulator, giving an actual output of 240cc/min (3->4 bar gives +15%)

    Mark has a set of C20LET injectors which are rated at 340cc/min at 3bar.

    Some more maths:

    340/240 = 41.6%, So the LET injectors at 3bar are flowing 41.6% more fuel than the AEB injectors at 4bar.

    Looks close enough for lambda correction to handle, so mark swapped in the C20LET injectors, and fitted a 3 bar fuel regulator inplace of the 4 bar item.

    I'll leave mark to post his findings, as he's driven the car, but suffice it to say lambda adaption is now down to a friendly 3%.
  21. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 16, 2010]
    As Kev says, we did some measuring and maths and applied it to the car and this has got a car that feels much more responsive to drive and seems to have more go.

    I have seen a spike of 1.2 bar, but more commonly 1.1, holding 1.0bar till over 5k revs, but by then i was watching where i was going.

    I am hoping to log MAF values later as according to the maths above we apply the fomula vagcom reading *1.38 / 0.8 = bhp ish, give or take. It will give an idea from what we have seen so far including the RR plot i had pre any mods.
  22. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 16, 2010]
    Ooo to add i also reset the DIS Av MPG counter, so while its adapting etc i am currently showing on DIS 25mpg and climbing, despite my "testing" of the car/boost etc.

    When i log i will log timing corrections and Maf values for comparison
  23. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    [Feb 16, 2010]
    Pair o pikeys
  24. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 16, 2010]
    Well it worked didnt it? Free remap :)
  25. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 16, 2010]

    Jealous much !!!! :icon_thumright:
  26. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    [Feb 16, 2010]
    Yeah.. very impressive really. Sure Mark will be wanting more boost/fuel ASAP though lol
  27. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    [Feb 16, 2010]
    :noway: lol :icon_thumright:
  28. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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  29. ian52
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    ian52 2000 a4 1.8tqs-yellow

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    [Feb 16, 2010]
    All this is very good to know.
  30. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 16, 2010]
  31. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 16, 2010]
    Thats the point of us putting it here Ian.More info on the ECU shortly too i hope
  32. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 16, 2010]
    peak of 153g/s means the actual airflow was around 210g/s, which is around 262hp...

    Does it feel faster than an S4? :p
  33. ian52
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    ian52 2000 a4 1.8tqs-yellow

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    [Feb 16, 2010]
    So would this work for a t28 as well within reason?
  34. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 16, 2010]
    The maths can be applied to anything mate, within reason obv
  35. ian52
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    ian52 2000 a4 1.8tqs-yellow

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    [Feb 16, 2010]
    Are you just running the standard ecu at the moment and it works out with the airflow etc to give you 1.1 bar? How does it feel now? Would be good if you are seeing about 260bhp.
  36. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 16, 2010]
    Ian, yes it's the std ECU atm. In communication to try and get the other ECU unlocked to allow adaptions to the IMMO properly.

    The car feels quite quick now, hard to say how much it feels like as my last car was 200kg lighter with only 250.

    i guess i need to have a run on a rolling road somewhere to see what she is doing
  37. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 16, 2010]
    If the stock ECU was already remapped to say 200hp, then i would imagine this mod would give you around 280.

    The problem is you cant adjust the ignition timing, so i dunno how much the ecu would like pushing 280hp's worth of power on the timing for 200.

    I guess marks is managing it with a similar gain though.
  38. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Feb 16, 2010]
    frigged fuel
    frigged maf/n75

    ignition timing ok?
  39. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 16, 2010]
    ????????
  40. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 16, 2010]
    Whats wrong with the fueling?

    N75 duty not showing and MAF is in a larger housing so will read lower

    I have seen std cars pull almost as much timing, so whats wrong there

    I appreciate your comments, but you could at least quantify them a little

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