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Totally standard 1999 APY S3 + 500bhp engine from ebay where do i start?

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by andy1571, Jun 6, 2013.

  1. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jun 14, 2013]
    Looks an interesting spec...

    <tuffty/>
    #41
  2. andy1571
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    andy1571 Member

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    [Jun 14, 2013]
    thanks tuffty, id just inboxed you to ask :happy:
    #42
  3. Scullies
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    Scullies Well-Known Member

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    [Jun 15, 2013]
    By looking at the spec list, its seems to have a built head. Ask the seller what brand valves and profile of cat cams he used?
    #43
  4. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jun 15, 2013]
    spec is pretty good to be fair... again looks like its only got non drilled rods but has supertech valvetrain (only ones I know that use single groove collets) and ARP head bolts etc... cat cams look a little hot for a fast road setup and are on solid lifters... hummm... great if actual racing but a ball ache to setup and maintain...

    Some info on the cams...
    DLI-TEKNIK
    The spec of this engine would put it in the 600hp + region so a GT35 needed... it will rev to 9k all day long with the valvetrain but no mention as to what teh head is... assuming its going to be small port if its the original APX head which is silly considering the rest of the build... you really want a large port head for 350-400hp or more...

    Would I buy it?... tbh... not for your application... as a road going engine then the cams, solid lifters and non drilled roads would be an issue... a compression ratio of 8.5:1 is too low for the road too...

    <tuffty/>
    #44
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  5. Blackcupraa
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    Blackcupraa Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 15, 2013]
    Andy, don't buy an built engine, this is what we have said to you all this time. You don't know what you are getting or who has built it.

    You have 2 options, build the engine yourself with a friend or pay someone to build it (preferably not a monkey).

    Either option will NOT be cheap and won't be off the shelf.

    I always remember the saying, you have 2 options out of 3, Cheap - Fast - Reliable.

    You could buy either of those engines, stick it in your car and for 200 miles think you are on a winner, then they start pissing oil everywhere and you realise that 1, you are sh^t out of luck and 2 out of pocket.

    Do it once, do it right!
    #45
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  6. andy1571
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    andy1571 Member

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    [Jun 15, 2013]
    Ive already spoke to a guy with regards to building me one, i know its gonna cost me i just thought i could use this one as a starting point to save a few quid tbh with it having a load of parts already in, i asked and yes it is still small port but again i planned on having it stripped down and re-ported ect...

    guess im just gonna have to take it on the chin and start from scratch...

    Thanks for your help lads, like i said only a greenhorn...maybe my ambitions outweigh my common sense
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2013
    #46
  7. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jun 15, 2013]
    Depends what you plan to do after the engine build... bottom end will always be pistons, rebore, new shells and rifle drilled rods if doing a full refurb... top end can be a simple refurb job if not going BT above 350hp but if looking to get the best out of 400+ hp then valve train (springs etc) needs to be done to allow a reliable high rev limit that BT's will need for best performance... my rev limit is 7.8k but I can take it to over 8k if I needed to but my peak power is low 7k so no real need...

    If your bores are ok then you can get away with new rings and either keep your current pistons or source another set...

    What exactly are your plans? easier to advise that way than the 'whats this engine like' lottery

    <tuffty/>
    #47
  8. andy1571
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    andy1571 Member

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    [Jun 15, 2013]
    Big turbo 4-500 while maintaing the look of the car, it is going to be used as a daily runner with the odd track day...crofts only 25 mins away.

    I planned on sourcing an engine for full rebuild and preparing the car (handling,brakes,Fmic)while it was off getting sorted out but seeing this engine had me second guessing myself again, i hear u about the engine lottery thing... I read through your build last night gr8 job, made for a very interesting read and gave me a much better idea of the work involved, how is she handling now with all of that extra power?

    How is the gearbox holding up?? i was concerned that depite planning to improve flywheel and uprated clutch it wouldnt be up to the job
    #48
  9. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jun 15, 2013]
    Tbh I would build a stroker then... Stacey's build is worth a look... Bill has his car in at the moment for a downpipe, exhaust and mapping... will be a weapon when done...

    If after that kinda power then the engine would need a large port head, valve train, ARP main studs etc...

    Gearbox is ok other than mine is a little whiney... it wasn't the best prior to modding tbh and the VT engine mounts make things sound loads worse... I plan to get a low mileage one at some point to replace it... just because lol

    Mines very drivable and works fine as a daily... switchable maps means I can dial power down for a bit of B road fun or crank it up for a bit of beemer embarrassing...

    The VT mounts etc make it a little noisier on idle etc but once rolling its all good...

    <tuffty/>
    #49
  10. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    [Jun 15, 2013]
    Seems to me youre trying to make this task of a 4-500hp car easier by buying an engine, whilst it might seem easier theres too many unknowns unless you know the builder and everything that went into it.

    Re small port/largeport. Try telling the yanks a large port is better! Imo its only us on here that are adament largeport is better due to timing gains on relatively small turbos. I wouldnt get hung up on it myself as long as the hardware is top notch.

    Tuffty, coupdnt he just change the solid lifters out for hydraulic to make it more street friendly? And i get the lairy cams would be a quick trade with some milder ones.
    #50
  11. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jun 15, 2013]
    ...if not planning on running shed loads of boost then arguably small port will help lower down but you will have to run more boost to get the same power out and a small port head is flow limited compared to a large port head... these engines need a lot of boost to wake them up and will run very hot no matter what you do... small port will give a better low down gain at the expense of top end power and will require more boost to achieve a power figure... large port will loose a little down low but can be brought back a tad with extra timing etc and of course flow better top end..

    There is no need to port the **** out of the heads (least of all the large port head) to get good results... large port heads just seem to make the engine happier at higher hp/boost... but of course we all know yank horsepower is more than good ol' blighty horsepower anyway :)


    Arguably but it adds expense etc to what is meant to be a money/time saving exercise and tbh I would not consider building a 500hp engine for the road without rifle drilled rods, that low a comp ratio and ARP mains... my opinion of course...

    <tuffty/>
    #51
  12. MK2
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    MK2 New Member

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    [Jun 15, 2013]
    Hi guys, the engine is mine.
    I took it to jbs a few years ago, told them to build the nuts of an engine with lairy cams for a gt30-35 aplication mk2 golf money being of no object and this is what i got.
    Unfortunatley they didnt port the head which i was a little disappointed about, i then planned to swap for a largeport.
    Never got round to it never finished the car, the engine has never been run, i chromed and polished evererything in sight.
    I bought brand new nuts bolts and washers then polished them for everything you can see so it all looks nice (anal i know).
    And now here i am, everyones circumstances can change in a flash and it has taken alot for me to list this engine !!!
    Anyway thats enough of my life story, someone buy my engine :w00t:
    The dream below

    [​IMG]
    #52
  13. MK2
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    MK2 New Member

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    [Jun 15, 2013]
    Hi guys, the engine is mine.
    I took it to jbs a few years ago, told them to build the nuts of an engine with lairy cams for a gt30-35 aplication mk2 golf.
    Unfortunatley they didnt port the head which i was a little disappointed about, then planned to swap for a largeport.
    Never got round to it never finished the car, the engine has never been run, i chromed and polished evererything in sight.
    I bought brand new nuts bolts and washers then polished them for everything you can see so it all looks nice (anal i know).
    And now here i am, everyones circumstances can change in a flash and it has taken alot for me to list this engine !!!
    Anyway thats enough of my life story, someone buy my engine [​IMG]
    The dream below

    [​IMG]
    #53
  14. MK2
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    MK2 New Member

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    [Jun 15, 2013]
    As for the rods being rifle drilled, i do not know.
    what i do know is they were blo*dy expensive as was everything on this engine
    #54
  15. MK2
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    MK2 New Member

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    [Jun 15, 2013]
    And its only taken me three years to post lol
    <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
    #55
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  16. andy1571
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    andy1571 Member

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    [Jun 15, 2013]
    seems You can select the rifle drilled option at an additional 25.00 a rod. whether its been done though?? any chance of askin em at jps mike?? with the rifle drilled option it comes to $519 dollars thats £330 quid u paid £300 and assuming theyve gone up (evrything does) they may be drilled
    http://www.intengineering.com/integrated-engineering-1-8t-144x19-drop-in-rods-vw-audi

    also heres the valve springs
    Supertech 1.8T 20V Valve Spring/Titanium Retainer Set

    con rod and main bearing set
    Connecting Rod and Main Bearing Sets

    cat cams...see what you mean tuffty race an drag only.....

    View attachment 16923

    exhaust valves
    AEVI-1103S - Supertech Audi/VW 1.8T 5V Single Groove Exhaust Valve: NLM

    superkarl was bang on, im trying to save myself time and money but yea i totally see what u guys mean about a pre built engine... least it was jbs that built it i guess but it wouldnt stop me having it stripped back down, having never been fired up couldnt i just have it stripped out, sell on the parts that are no good to me and change em..ie higher stroke cam, arp mains ect or am i being too optomistic
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2013
    #56
  17. andy1571
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    andy1571 Member

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    [Jun 15, 2013]
    .....at least im doing some research this time :)
    #57
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  18. Scullies
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    Scullies Well-Known Member

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    [Jun 15, 2013]
    just some useless info.

    My mate here in Dubai bought a built stroker engine from a well known performance shop in the US, shipped it over, had it installed and when he started it up it sounded terrible. It wasn't running on all cylinders and after a bit of double checking things, he found there was no compression on one of the cylinders. So head off, which revealed that the valve seats in cylinder #3 had not been machined and the valves in 2 other cylinders had not been seated/lapped properly.

    These are the type of issues that you could be faced with when buying a built engine.

    If you willing to strip it down, it might be worth getting the rods rifle drilled at a machine shop. Then get an AEB head and take it to Andrew@A.L.D for some TLC :drool:
    You could always sell the small port head on.
    #58
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  19. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jun 15, 2013]
    I would put money on them being non drilled...

    Tbh its not a bad engine in its own right just from a suitability point of view for your requirements its spec is a little off...

    If you are prepared to put a little work in then there is no reason why it can't be made usable... you could swap out the cams and followers etc (I suspect that the cams are specific for use with solid followers so would need to go as a package anyway)... as for the non drilled rods there is again no particular reason not to use them... rifle drilled are simply more reliable...

    8.5:1 pistons are not ideal for your proposed application but suited to the cams ironically... be able to run loads of boost at high RPM (especially with the solid lifters) so ideal as a drag engine, prob not so good as a daily driver...

    If you are prepared to sort a few things out on the engine to get it back on spec and you get it for the right price then its prob worth a shot...

    <tuffty/>
    #59
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  20. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jun 15, 2013]
    Not as easy as that... they are not actually drilled... I believe they use wire erosion to create the hole accurately

    <tuffty/>
    #60
  21. MK2
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    MK2 New Member

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    [Jun 15, 2013]
    The plan was to have a ridiculous powered engine that revs to 8.5k reliably.
    Big port head was also part of the plan but that somehow got lost in communication.
    I can try JBS Monday regarding the rods Andy but it was built a good few years ago now so who knows how much info they have.
    As for the cams and lifters, don't sell them 9k sounds great to me 😄
    Should have an R36 lump coming next week, so want this gone!!!
    Have some other receipts in the workshop they might be a bit more in depth will have a look
    #61
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  22. cecilthesausage
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    cecilthesausage ...It's Never Finished...

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    [Jun 15, 2013]
    9k for the engine....? I'd sooner just go and buy an RS4....:rockwoot:
    #62
  23. MK2
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    MK2 New Member

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    [Jun 15, 2013]
    I meant rev to 9k, but 9 grand isn't far off of what I've spent on the lump as for the car I'm around the 25 grand mark
    But yes I didn't come here to try and sell it, it should sell itself.
    Also Andy the lump was built for a purpose, that purpose might not be exactly what your after I'm no expert on the subject but it looks like your in the right place for expert advice.
    For 25k I could have bought a 997 but that's not for everyone
    #63
  24. andy1571
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    andy1571 Member

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    [Aug 21, 2013]
    Just a quick update... ive started my build so far ive done the n249 bypass, replaced a few dodgy looking pipes pcv valve ect,
    I managed to procure a cat c s3 with about 2gs worth of mods already installed so im about to rip those out of and install them in mine then il sell that one on and despite advice (sorry fellas) I bought the second engine with the lairy cams and solid lifters, I plan on keeping it as is but changing for a large port head and gt35 with plans to build up the old engine that il be removing
    #64
  25. andy1571
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    andy1571 Member

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    [Aug 21, 2013]
    The cat c needed a clutch so im half way through doing that aswell :banghead: gearbox out, clutch, flywheel ect replaced and about to remove the transfer now for refit.. a pretty unforgiving task

    uploadfromtaptalk1377086751995.jpg

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2
    #65
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  26. andy1571
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    andy1571 Member

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    [Aug 29, 2013]
    gt35r,tial wategate, powerflex bushes an a dog... 20130829_213200[1].jpg
    #66
  27. burns3
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    burns3 Member

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    [Aug 30, 2013]
    Did you get that turbo and hot side off Marc Headley by any chance?
    #67
  28. andy1571
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    andy1571 Member

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    [Aug 30, 2013]
    unsure of the guys name tbh, i picked it up from sheffeild
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2013
    #68
  29. burns3
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    burns3 Member

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    [Aug 30, 2013]
    Could of saved you a trip cos the lad I mentioned is from Newcastle.

    How much you give for the complete turbo if you don't mind me asking and what condition is it in.
    #69
  30. andy1571
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    andy1571 Member

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    [Aug 30, 2013]
    I gave 600 for it m8, I tried to get it for 300 quid but the guy was having none of it :(
    As far as I can tell though the turbos in good condition theres no play on the wheels or any sign of oil
    #70
  31. burns3
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    burns3 Member

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    [Aug 30, 2013]
    Seems a decent price if its all working fine.

    Think the one my mate has is brand new but he wanted nearly double what you paid.
    #71

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