1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

total Audi noob just bought S3

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by marlow77, Sep 23, 2012.

  1. marlow77
    Offline

    marlow77 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2012
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Sep 23, 2012]
    Hi, I know diddly squat about these cars so go easy. Just bought a 2000 BAM S3. Amongst all the paperwork is a remap invoice from 2002 claiming 280bhp. My friend who's had countless Evos and other turbos reckons it's not 280 by a long chalk but certainly quicker than standard.

    1/ Whilst I ultimately don't want to make really massive mods (heads, cams, bores etc), I would like to do some basics. Are there any handy tips I can find out about? Intake pipes? Downpipes? What gains are to be had from getting bigger ones?

    2/ I would really like as loud a wastegate noise as possible as opposed to a huge dump valve "whoosh", can I get this without compromising the reliability of the turbo too much? If leaving DV as recirc, is modified version still recommended?

    3/ Are they worth decatting? My rally driving experienced mate says they're not. So is cat back pipe worth it? I do prefer induction noise much more over exhaust noise so if not much power to be gained it'd be more of a bonus.

    4/ Is remapping always advised after every small mod?

    Hope I don't sound too retarded, thanks for any tips ;)
    #1
  2. Ads

    Ads

    [Dec 25, 2014]

  3. Sevv
    Offline

    Sevv Pushing the limits..

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    1,322
    Likes Received:
    116
    [Sep 23, 2012]
    well for starters.. get a Forge 008 or 007p DV and stick to it don't modify anything on it... 3" DP will see some gains, FMIC, Tubular turbo manifold [ relentless] , Badger5 Tip with the heat-shield and jetex filter ull love that... Milltek cat back will improve flow.. if going for High HP...its advised
    #2
  4. Dani_B19
    Offline

    Dani_B19 Audi-sports own special child.

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2008
    Messages:
    7,304
    Likes Received:
    90
    [Sep 23, 2012]
    A 2000 plate s3 wont have a bam engine mate, itll either be a late modelled apy or a amk, id just check the head tag and see mate.
    #3
  5. marlow77
    Offline

    marlow77 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2012
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Sep 23, 2012]
    Oh, previous owner must have it wrong then :blink: What is FMIC?
    #4
  6. 16Klappe
    Offline

    16Klappe RacecaR forward is RacecaR backwards. Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    5,774
    Likes Received:
    1,140
    [Sep 23, 2012]
    Front mount intercooler.
    #5
  7. marlow77
    Offline

    marlow77 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2012
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Sep 23, 2012]
    Thanks. If I did everything sev suggested, what BHP would I be looking at and price? Roughly, ta.
    #6
  8. 16Klappe
    Offline

    16Klappe RacecaR forward is RacecaR backwards. Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    5,774
    Likes Received:
    1,140
    [Sep 23, 2012]
    With all those mods as suggested and a solid stage 2 map you would be doing well to have the 280BHP that the car "should" have. That would be the figure I'd aim for though, on a reputable roller like Badger 5's or R Tech's.

    If the car's just been remapped then you've probably got about 255bhp.
    #7
  9. marlow77
    Offline

    marlow77 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2012
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Sep 23, 2012]
    Are we talking at the wheels here? I've just found the dyno sheet and the guy was full of ****! It's 260 "cv" (think cv means hp anyway) at engine and 215 at wheels!
    #8
  10. 16Klappe
    Offline

    16Klappe RacecaR forward is RacecaR backwards. Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    5,774
    Likes Received:
    1,140
    [Sep 23, 2012]
    Any dyno print out you get will be wheel power, the engine power will be estimated from that taking into account appropriate losses. So yes, I am quoting WHP.

    215bhp is standard S3 figures; which sucks.

    [​IMG]
    #9
  11. marlow77
    Offline

    marlow77 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2012
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Sep 23, 2012]
    So it wasn't even a remap then by sounds of it. It is from Jabba mind.
    #10
  12. Sevv
    Offline

    Sevv Pushing the limits..

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    1,322
    Likes Received:
    116
    [Sep 23, 2012]
    dont go to jabba ... id put my car in the hands of Badger5 atleast i can trust that the car will be in safe hands.. pay once for it and relax...
    #11
  13. marlow77
    Offline

    marlow77 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2012
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Sep 23, 2012]
    Where are they? I'm in Essex and closest to me looks like AMD. They any good?
    #12
  14. Sevv
    Offline

    Sevv Pushing the limits..

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    1,322
    Likes Received:
    116
    [Sep 23, 2012]
    i dont live in the UK however from checking Badger5's site the adress is :


    [TABLE="width: 100%"]

    [TD="width: 168, align: right"]Registered Address:[/TD]
    [TD="width: 224"]Badger 5 Ltd[/TD]


    [TD="width: 168, align: right"] [/TD]
    [TD="width: 224"]57 Adelaide Gardens[/TD]


    [TD="width: 168, align: right"] [/TD]
    [TD="width: 224"]Stonehouse[/TD]


    [TD="width: 168, align: right"] [/TD]
    [TD="width: 224"]Gloucestershire[/TD]


    [TD="width: 168, align: right"] [/TD]
    [TD="width: 224"]GL10 2PZ[/TD]


    [TD="width: 168, align: right"] [/TD]
    [TD="width: 224"]England, UK.[/TD]
    [/TABLE]
    #13
  15. jezzy
    Offline

    jezzy Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2011
    Messages:
    762
    Likes Received:
    15
  16. marlow77
    Offline

    marlow77 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2012
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Sep 23, 2012]
    How do you get emissions passes with de-cats though?
    #15
  17. jezzy
    Offline

    jezzy Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2011
    Messages:
    762
    Likes Received:
    15
    [Sep 23, 2012]
    mot friends
    #16
  18. vrbob
    Offline

    vrbob Thats no Moon, Thats a space station!

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2007
    Messages:
    2,363
    Likes Received:
    158
    [Sep 23, 2012]
    I went for a relentless 200 cell sports cat so i can get thru the MOT ok. If you de-cat you will have to put the old cat back on for your MOT or find a friendly MOT place that you can slip an extra £10
    #17
  19. marlow77
    Offline

    marlow77 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2012
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Sep 23, 2012]
    I have a mate who owns his own MOT station I just didn't know how you could fix the emission figures cause you need a certificate for those don't you? I could be wrong.

    So you defo recommend de-catting, it's worth the power gain etc?
    #18
  20. vrbob
    Offline

    vrbob Thats no Moon, Thats a space station!

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2007
    Messages:
    2,363
    Likes Received:
    158
    [Sep 23, 2012]
    Depende on what you are go0ing for ultimately but the 200cell sports cat is a good upgrade and hassle free for MOT`s so this is why i went down that route. I also fitted the 3" relentless downpipe as i have gone to stage 2 in my S3 and this free`s up alot of airflow as the old downpipe is pretty restrictive
    #19
  21. marlow77
    Offline

    marlow77 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2012
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Sep 23, 2012]
    Think in the long run I'd like to get well over 300bhp and after about 1-2yrs of owning it would look to get over 400 depending on how drastic a mod would be required for it.
    #20
  22. vrbob
    Offline

    vrbob Thats no Moon, Thats a space station!

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2007
    Messages:
    2,363
    Likes Received:
    158
    [Sep 23, 2012]
    anything over 300bhp your gonna be looking at upgrading the rods etc (basically an engine rebuild) to go nearer 400bhp that new big turbo territory have a look at Tuffty`s build thread and you can see what can be acheived with lots of skill and some deep pockets.
    #21
  23. 16Klappe
    Offline

    16Klappe RacecaR forward is RacecaR backwards. Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    5,774
    Likes Received:
    1,140
    [Sep 23, 2012]
    R-Tech or Badger 5. ECU Remapping, Performance Engine Tuning, R-tech ThrottleBodies.com - Performance Induction Systems

    AMD's rollers are a little optimistic shall we say, and Niki or Bill are two of the most honest and helpful blokes in the business. Both of them built their reputation on reality and respect.

    Reality is that most people never get above 300bhp; most people just give up and live with respectable stage 2 figures at around 280bhp. The difference between a reliable 280bhp and a reliable 340bhp is the best part of £4000 which lets face it is more than the car will be worth.
    #22
  24. marlow77
    Offline

    marlow77 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2012
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Sep 23, 2012]
    Money won't really be an issue so I'l prob stick with the 280 region then maybe go mental on it if I haven't already written it off by then :blink:

    Well if those tuners that are too far away get on the job the second you arrive and let you stand and watch so you can take the car there and back in one day then I'd would probs venture up there but otherwise, surely optimistic rollers make little difference to the actual tuning of a car? Don't know much about mapping but I'm guessing you program what you can to achieve the highest possible output...?
    #23
  25. jezzy
    Offline

    jezzy Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2011
    Messages:
    762
    Likes Received:
    15
    [Sep 23, 2012]
    hmmm reliable 340 bhp?
    This could be reality a lot sooner than people think.
    look up beach buggys new project
    #24
  26. 16Klappe
    Offline

    16Klappe RacecaR forward is RacecaR backwards. Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    5,774
    Likes Received:
    1,140
    [Sep 23, 2012]
    No. It makes a huge difference. Would you send your car to somebody who can't even set their rollers up? Honestly the two people I named are the only two people in the country that I would let loose with my ECU. Wouldn't let anybody else even look at it.

    If you don't understand the way that mapping works and what's involved then the best idea is to throw any preconceived ideas out the window and follow the advice of people who know :) I've seen far too many horror stories from people who have gone to pony establishments for "custom" mapping.
    #25
  27. marlow77
    Offline

    marlow77 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2012
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Sep 23, 2012]
    Interesting. Surely there's more than two people in the whole country who are good with mapping though? Are you talking for any car at all or just these types?
    #26
  28. jezzy
    Offline

    jezzy Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2011
    Messages:
    762
    Likes Received:
    15
    [Sep 23, 2012]
    these are the best 2 audi a3/s3 mappers that are recomended by this site.
    All the best cars/build threads here have some point of reference these guys.
    when you get to read the big build threads you will understand.
    #27
  29. 16Klappe
    Offline

    16Klappe RacecaR forward is RacecaR backwards. Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    5,774
    Likes Received:
    1,140
    [Sep 23, 2012]
    As Jezzy says really. Bill and Niki really are specialist in 1.8t's; Bill personally runs a 600bhp FWD Ibiza race car and Niki is the craziest boost hungry ******* known to man and just loves innovation and pushing things forward; yet they both do it in the most controlled and safest way possible. By basically refusing to work on bull**** cars, turning away problematic custom until they are happy to put their name to the vehicle and not taking the risk other companies do they have built two reputable businesses that you can trust.

    If you were going for a generic stage 1 map I would reccomend you go to your nearest AMD/Revo/Custard Code dealer and get a flash. But you're talking about a stage 2 live mapping session; which should only be done by somebody you can trust. If you don't want hassle and you want top notch figures and 10/10 service then you'll make the drive to either.
    #28
  30. marlow77
    Offline

    marlow77 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2012
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Sep 23, 2012]
    ok thanks for the tips.

    I've discovered a problem already. It keeps beeping at me when I press random buttons like heater or lights. You know the immobiliser beep when you first put the key in? Well it does this randomly as I'm driving along, well it's happend twice in about 50 miles anyway.
    #29
  31. 16Klappe
    Offline

    16Klappe RacecaR forward is RacecaR backwards. Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    5,774
    Likes Received:
    1,140
    [Sep 24, 2012]
    With the car at a stand still, leave the car running and twist the trip counter reset button to the left and hold it for two seconds.

    Probably the speed warning sensor kicking in.
    #30
  32. <tuffty/>
    Offline

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2008
    Messages:
    16,482
    Likes Received:
    1,542
    [Sep 24, 2012]
    Immo beep??? thats not std as far as I know... the alarm occasionally beep 3/4 times if the backup battery in the siren is low/buggered... you must have an aftermarket immobiliser?

    <tuffty/>
    #31
  33. superkarl
    Offline

    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2010
    Messages:
    7,873
    Likes Received:
    1,303
    [Sep 24, 2012]
    wow wow wow, lets jus clear this up with the OP before he runs off thinking his car isnt mapped.

    OP, you have a print out for 260hp? this WILL be at the flywheel, as are pretty much ALL printouts and dyno readings in this country.
    your standard car is 210 at the flywheel. ok. so your car is clearly remapped.

    you say it was maped in 2002? pretty old. probably lots of lost horses over the years. so you need to give it a good checking over. for a start, get it scanned using VCDS.

    then id be looking at getting a boost leak test/smoke test. There is a huge system of pipes under the inlet manifold which is the cars breather system, it is VERY common for these pipes to become brittle, crack, split, and cause ill running. it's a huge investment to carry out the following mod:
    http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-...de-how-fit-catch-can-simplify-pcv-system.html

    another simple and V cheap thing to do would be this:
    N249 Bypass How To (2000 S3 - but same for many)

    now on to more performance enhancing mods. once you think the car is as healthy as possible, start with basics, induction side of things:
    http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/badger-5/144109-80mm-tip-fitting-instructions.html
    combined with any filter of your choice, these things are proven, on a dyno for up to 20hp on an already mapped car. so you WILL see gains.

    exhaust side next, downpipe, sadly no guides in the stickies, but give it a search. not an easy job, talking 3 hours on a ramp and alot of swearing. but the stock s3 downpipe and cats are a very restrictive system, you only have to look at the design to realise. 3 inch downpipe can make a huge difference to both sound and performance, esp when mapped.

    lastly, of the 'bolt on' mods, would be a FMIC, front mount intercooler. lots of options, but you will require this with the above mods to qualify and make the most of a 'stage 2' map.
    info in here:
    http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-forum-8l-chassis/75425-ah-fab-ebay-forge-s3-fmic-image-heavy.html

    these are just some of the basic bolt on mods. you may want to go straight in at the deep end and start putting big turbos on, i dont know, but with some time spent browsing here you can learn alot.

    welcome to the money pit
    #32
  34. Shane-Ireland
    Offline

    Shane-Ireland Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2010
    Messages:
    228
    Likes Received:
    6
    [Sep 24, 2012]
    you have it arse ways dude.

    The majority of dynos (and ALL manufacturers) give the flywheel BHP figure,you have to go looking in the small print for the WHP figure - 215 at the wheels is not a bad map,a standard 210 S3 will have around 170/180 at the wheels.
    #33
  35. 16Klappe
    Offline

    16Klappe RacecaR forward is RacecaR backwards. Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    5,774
    Likes Received:
    1,140
    [Sep 24, 2012]
    Haha, gotta love getting the two mixed up. My bad.
    #34
  36. StaceyS3
    Offline

    StaceyS3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    2,179
    Likes Received:
    226
    [Sep 24, 2012]
    Where abouts in Essex you from mate?

    To be honest if your only going for a stage 2 map then I don't see a problem with going with AMD who have their own stage 2 maps as well as revo iirc

    Yes their rollers are optimistic with what seems smaller turbo cars but also seem to read lower for big turbo cars than others due to putting very little load/resistance against the car which is down to the type of dyno it is

    If you was wanting a full custom map then I agree with jardo and can't reconmend bill high enough or niki (although haven't used him personally) but as going for stage 2 then I personally can't see a problem with Amd as there's a lot to be said about having your tuner within reasonable distance and I didn't have any issues with their stage 1 or 2 maps, but if don't mind travelling then certinally worth going to the other 2 as I did and took mine to bill @ badger 5 for it's custom map ;)
    #35
  37. marlow77
    Offline

    marlow77 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2012
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Sep 24, 2012]
    I'm in Colchester. ooh wowser, glad someone spotted that then else I'd have been wasting my money on a stage 1 when it's already stage 1'd!! :ohmy:

    superkarl thanks muchly for that post, just the sort of thing I was after ;) I just remembered last night I'd pressed the reset button on the right of the steering column not really knowing what it does lol, so that obv had something to do with the beeping. The centre dash with all that info is unreadable though, which is another prob needs fixing. Hope that's not a major thing.

    Will get my mate to scan it today hopefully as well as him servicing it and putting new cambelt on. By the looks of tufty's thread even the cam belt is absolute hell! It's 110k miles and previous owner doesn't know when it was last done so if it was done at the 60k mark then it'd be wise to do it I spose.

    Where can I buy the induction kit and does heat shield come with or is it make your own time?
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2012
    #36
  38. superkarl
    Offline

    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2010
    Messages:
    7,873
    Likes Received:
    1,303
    [Sep 24, 2012]
    definately do the cambelt! dont forget the water pump and tensioner too.

    as for your centre display, contact a user called 'Danio', he fixes these. just give him a pm.

    as for the induction kit. the one i linked you to is available from badger5 (the maker of the kit), ebay, awesomegti to name a few. and is available with the heatshield to support your filter and maf
    #37
  39. colicabcadam
    Offline

    colicabcadam Guest

    [Sep 24, 2012]
    if an s3 has 215bhp at the wheels it's mapped, no doubt about that, not sure why anyone would say it isn't, unless they think cars only loose 10bhp between the wheels and the crank
    #38
  40. StaceyS3
    Offline

    StaceyS3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    2,179
    Likes Received:
    226
    [Sep 24, 2012]
    Ahh not to far away then as I'm in maldon, may pass you at some point ;)
    #39
  41. marlow77
    Offline

    marlow77 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2012
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Sep 24, 2012]
    Scan came back code free! Yeh waterpump, v belt whatever that is, mobil 1 5w/30 or w/e it is, spark plugs PR6 something, genuine thermostat, gearbox oil, and various other is ordered.

    I've searched all 3 of those sites and found nothing except a Neuspeed kit on awesomegti which doesn't look like it has cold air feed.

    hehe, mine is yellow ;)
    #40

Share This Page