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Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by Dave_Bayern, Feb 19, 2009.
The gearbox code for the S3 is FMN mate, cant find the final drive ratio's at the moment.
lol this post is getting more amusing as it goes on.
I've edited the orignal post. It did seem MENTAL that a 5 speed A3 box would have a higher theoretical top speed than the S3.
However, information on the final drive may still be open to change.
Makes me feel a lot happier on the figures though as you can see the improvements throught the range and years.
That said, it isnt an excuse for people to start claiming 160mph, you'd better be having 350Bhp+ and a GPS log for those kind of claims.
a good read this..... what conclusion have we reached then? the 175mph is horse poo but the theoretical top speed of an S3 is in theory higher than origianlly thought with the right bhp
dunno about you lot but ill never be touching that.
Me either, i'm not really into flat out in the red line driving, much prefer the low to mid range. Really hoping to get a map soon, cant wait to see the diffrence.
Pretty much, every other car that does confirmed 175mph+ have huge amounts of horsepower and are far more aerodynamic than the A3/S3 chassis.
The original final drive figure was wrong, and I'm not 100% on the final drive figure I've used now.
But it goes:
6 speed box as fitted to 8P & 8L = 181mph
5 speed box as fitted to 8L & VW = 175mph
However, they are gearing top speeds and not how fast the car could actually go.
You have to take into account drag, and require huge amounts of horspower to get there.
If we use the Backdraft Motorsport 350Bhp turbo conversion as an example, it produces maximum power at 6500rpm. Considerably lower than my 7200 estimate from earlier.
Top speed is ALL about horsepower and drag.
So using the gearbox info as above that would equate to a 163mph top speed at recommended levels.
The 400Bhp conversion is deisgned to be used with upgraded internals so lets say 7200 rpm there. That actually gives a 181mph top speed.
So as has been said previosuly in this post, claiming 175mph with 350Bhp better come with a datalog because its massively unlikely.
However, going 400Bhp will give you that kind of speed.
Similar top speed road going cars are generally also around 400Bhp so the information holds correct.
for me it rates along with people that go on about acheiving 300mph in 1st gear...... why on earth would you want to see what top speed you can get in each gear.... there is no benefit to anyone
Oh there is Tim, as it gives you a good idea of what gears you will be using for the type of driving you do.
It's not such an issue on the audi's, as it's not easily changed, but in the Mini scene, knowing what RPM/speed you are getting in each gear is very important in selection of the final drive you choose to run.
you could be running in 3rd and 4th on a particular road and getting bags of acceleration from a lower final drive, with less comfy cruising ability, or you could be running on that same road in 2nd and 3rd with a different final drive, sacrafising acceleration but making it more comfy to cruise.....
I use this page: http://www.guess-works.com/Gearbox/Technical/ratio.htm for calculating speeds/rpm values for the Mini, you can put in your wheel size, gearbox type, and final drive ratio, and it'll tell you your speed at any given revs in any gear!
Also when looking into GPS speedos i found you need to be at a constant speed and on a flat road to get a really accurate speed.. (It will be more accurate anyway than the speedo). I also found out that every car sold except for north america by law have to overstate the speed on the speedo. I cant remember the exact figures but its so they have to stay on the safe side of inaccuracy.
Cool, i'm glad my gps isn't wrong then as I was only at about 6000rpm and it felt like it was screaming, it doesn't feel happy at those speeds.
I haven't even taken my S3 over 90 I don't think, I'm more interested in slowing down so I can boot it again!
Don't get me wrong, this is a really interesting thread, but talking about acceleration is far better than top speed!
Just wanted to add that Autocar roadtests show that the 8L S3 at max revs(210 model@7200) can only hit 59MPH in 2nd gear, and I've tried a raised rev limit S3(7500 I think it could rev to) which could crack 60mph in 2nd, but you was better off shifting up at that point. So the figures/drive ratios in the graph of your first post is a bit off I think Dave, for second gear anyways, don't think it does anywhere near 40 in 1st neither, nevermind 45, I'll have to try it out lol.
S3's as most of us know, need a 3rd gear change to hit 60, hence the poor 0-60 times wether mapped or not.
I've also personally nudged 150 on the clock once, and it probably had a few more mph to go, but it took ages to get there, so 175 is a nono with the standard gearbox in my opinion.
Thats why I've changed the graph 3 times after finding varying information and I'm still not happy with the results jojo.
The original final drive figure I used produced results much more similar to the real world but with the limited top speed of 149mph.
Basically, its only as accurate as the figures you feed in and I have my doubts about a 3.27 final drive.
Also, 7200rpm is used because it needed to reflect the top end speed and max revs in 6th gear.
Obviously in an S3 if you're changing any later than 5500rpm then you're off the power curve. However, to map that with the graph would result in a skewed top speed.
the idea of the gearing is that is you held the car at 7200rpm in those gears, you would eventually reach the speeds indicated in the chart.
Anybody want to post a dyno graph of a chipped s3? I could make a similar graph, taking drag into account too.
High speeds is a different kind of thrill.
High speeds are boring. As in very high speeds.
You cant realistically do anything except go in a straight line at proper high speeds unless you have a F1 car or are on a NASCAR track.
Cornering at 80mph. Now THAT is a different kind of thrill.
As my S3 with 280 BHP and 330 lb-ft on 18" wheels and 'modest' width tyres was struggling to crack 150 MPH geniune.
I think we saw 148-149 but never broke the 150 MPH.
In my view, the standard K04 just isn't making enough torque or power at 6000RPM+ to get an S3 over the aerodynamic drag.
In a BT S3, with lots of top end power and higher up torque peak, it's possible I'm sure as I don't recall being anywhere near the limiter...but 17-18 MPH more on a K04?
Or even 25-26 MPH more in a big turbo S3?
Not likely...not impossible with longer gearing (bigger wheels and tyres) and BIG power...but not likely.
Certainly not on a K04 with a re-map and 17 or 18" wheels.
Couldnt agree more with Ess Three.
A standard turbo S3, remapped or not, will not pass 150mph without a 30mph following wind and going downhill
I'd like to see actual datalogs if someone can prove this can be done, as I doubt it can.
Agreed, and pretty much irrelevant in the UK.
I've seen 172 on my own one.. now obviously you say speedos always give incorrect readings... which is not a problem... but my car's standard... no mod.. nothing.. zilch. Was alone to see it but i've seen 172 on mine... which i think is pretty amazing itself.
And seen 170 on my old 8L MTM Big turbo S3.
Only going by what i saw on clock.
Sorry to go off subject but how have you managed to get your DIS to show 170mph? Is there an option I don't know about!
Its an 8P mate. I think??
Stock or not the speedometer wont be entirely accurate at those speeds.
How much road do yo need to get an s3 to 150mph?
Yaaawn...is anyone bothered that an 8L S3 won't/doesn't reach 150mph? I doubt it...
Arr right ok! So what the 8P can display your actual speed in the DIS as well as on the gauge?
nope..... and even if it did matter - logic tends to have a tolerance too in most circumstances, someone will always come along with FACT and prove it wrong in one way shape or form
Clearly people ARE bothered, as this thread has generated a lot of views.
And, its always nice to gain new knowledge, and perhaps some people now have some new knowledge thanks to everyones input in this thread.
not denying it isnt interesting Dave... just useless to me personally and to most here
I think people view it more out of curiosity, and less to do with being bothered (or is bovered more appropriate here?).
Yep. I drove an 08 A3 TDI Courtsey car and it had this. It was just an option on the DIS stalk. Its nice but it can get very annoying in the end i just turned it off as its easier to read the gauge
also the dis has plenty more stuff to look at, cant remember it all though.
Here's an idea:
Go to a rolling road, get the operator to set the dyno to 'Top Speed Run' or 'Speedometer Test' and off you go...
Armed with your camera you will have a photo of your car doing full revs in top - maybe 170 MPH?
Of course, in 'Speedometer Test' mode the dyno has no drag...so the engine will spin up in any gear...and since there is no Aerodynamic Drag on a dyno...you get the photo.
However, it's got no relevance at all in the real world.
Been there, done that...
I only kept the print out of the 0-100 MPH stuff as that's really the only relevant bit (speedo is around 3 MPH off on my old S3...which incidentally tied in with the GPS data)
so now your saying that pic was taken on a dyno?
I've seen 157mph on the speedo with a mate in the car which I know can't be entirely trusted, however I came off because I started to worry about possible blow outs, it would of hit 160...I understand static does effect the speedo at high speeds, but I honestly believe a remaped S3 is capable of over 150mph...and for the record it didn't take long to get there either...
Now I'm saying?
I'm not saying anything of the sort...
I am saying it's easy to get a bullshit picture to try to prove a bullshit point, if you want to.
I just find it hard to believe that I couldn't get my heavily modified S3 to break 150 MPH, neither could Audi when they listed their top speeds, neither could ANY magazine worldwide...using various accurate methods of determining speed.
But some people can get a picture of their standard S3 doing 160+ or their re-mapped S3 doing 170+.
as were on the subject, how is it that the S3 isn't electronically limited at 155mph...or is this tampered with during a remap ??
It isn't limited as it doesn't need to be as it can't go 155MPH or faster.
It is not powerful enough, slippery enough, or geared accordingly to need limiting to 155 MPH.
Umm, my old Passat W8 is famously capable of being able to hit 174mph when delimited. This has just 275bhp.
Don't forget most cars are limited to 155mph, Porsche being one of the handful that aren't, so you don't have an awful lot to compare to.
(Sorry if this has been covered elsewhere in the thread, I couldn't be bothered to read all of it!)
The figures on the table will be incorrect for 1st to 4th because it has the final drive for 5th and 6th used. The table unfortunately is unable to work the figures out correctly because the S3 uses two final drives, you would have to use two tables to get the correct figures (one for 1st to 4th and one for 5th to 6th).
It should also be remembered that these are only theoretical top speeds and take no account of drag or the rolling resistance of the tyres etc. To get to 175mph you would alot of power and an extremely long stretch of road.
out of curiosity... how much straight road would you need to get an s3 to 150 mph (or 149 or whatever!) then back to a stop safely?