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To Chip..

Discussion in 'General Technical / How To' started by A4Steve, Jan 7, 2003.

  1. A4Steve
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    A4Steve Guest

    [Jan 7, 2003]
    Think this should be in here rather than A3/S3 forum!!!

    Guys,

    Thought you might be interested in checking out Revo Technik (formerly APR). They have introduced new softare which doesnt invlove removing the ECU and a chip from within.

    I have always been concerned with regard to warranty work when thinking about chipping, dont know whether any of you do ( well i know Adam did ). The install is done via the serial port (from what i understand) so no messey soldering in the ECU, also the OEM chip is there so if a claim is made i pressume its undetectable!!! Now that has to be a bonus right!!

    Well i thought i should share the joy!!

    Heres the link to their website, looks like Forge are endorsing their products too!!

    REVO TECHNIK


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    [Jan 7, 2003]
    So what happens if an Audi dealer does a software update just out of interest?
    Does it just write over the new code?
    Surely a dealer can still detect it by just connecting a VAG 1551 to it and reading the boost table?
    If standard is 1.0 bar and it reads 1.4 bar then they'll know something ain't right surely, so then if the ECU is sent back under warranty what makes you think Audi won't read the code and refuse to honour the warranty?
    I'm curious to how that'll stand.
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  4. A4Steve
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    A4Steve Guest

    [Jan 7, 2003]
    But surely when it goes in for work to be done you plug in change back to stock and hey whos none the wiser!?!?!?

    Or am i wrong?!
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  5. AL_B
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    AL_B Active Member

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    [Jan 7, 2003]
    It does sound like a good product. Ideal in fact.

    I look forward to hearing peoples reports and hopefully some dyno plots.

    AL
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  6. A4Steve
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    A4Steve Guest

    [Jan 7, 2003]
    I must say that by putting the software in via the serial port is a great idea.. I've never been too keen on removing the ECU because it get scratched and it's obvious that someone has been playing....

    I also like the securtity feature of the REVO chip.. unauthorised people can''t even start the car....

    I think that this is a big leap forward in this field of technology..
    Like AL says.. I'm looking forward to hearing some of the reports
    .. i think that I'll catch up with mitch and co at AutoSport..

    Dave
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    [Jan 7, 2003]
    [ QUOTE ]
    But surely when it goes in for work to be done you plug in change back to stock and hey whos none the wiser!?!?!?

    Or am i wrong?!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    only i you've bought the dongle though,
    what happens if you stuff the car and lose/break your dongle though?
    surely you're in the same boat as the rest of the chipped cars then?
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  8. AL_B
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    [Jan 7, 2003]
    John,

    The "major accident scenario" would be a worry for anyone chipped, regardless of chip tuner, AmD, MTM, APR, REVO etc etc.

    LOL, just thought. Maybe code could be written that uses the same sensors as the air-bag etc., that would, in event of a major accident, flash the ECU chip back to stock parameters!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    AL
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  9. audi_girl
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    audi_girl Active Member

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    [Jan 7, 2003]
    Sounds good. Rally drivers in NZ have been doing something similar for a while now - you just have a box that connects to the ECU (I think via the serial port) so you can change certain parameters.

    Enables you to use your rally car as your road car...

    I think there's also a version that bypasses the onboard ECU completely as well.

    Can't remember the name of the company exactly - Link... Lynx... Links... something like that?
    #8
  10. A4Steve
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    A4Steve Guest

    [Jan 7, 2003]
    Oh i am not saying that its 100% but surely its got to be better than the others for detection purposes? Not knocking the actual other products ie the remap but the detectability of it??

    What do you think?
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    [Jan 7, 2003]
    I agree, I like Jo's idea of bypassing the ECU, maybe run the map from a pc?
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  12. A4Steve
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    A4Steve Guest

    [Jan 7, 2003]
    yeah but that is not available to us at the mo!! Talking current here!! Whats on the market now!!
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    [Jan 7, 2003]
    Didn't the Skyline do something like that?
    Or did it just have loads of pretty lights on tht screen and no real functionality?
    you can just see it now all those ecu codes being exchanged on KaZaA! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
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  14. A4Steve
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    [Jan 7, 2003]
    Good point about the swapping!!

    But you mentioned updating through a PC, so what happens when that crashes /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif? You gonna want to run windows on it too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

    Also can't see my gf would be too pleased holding a laptop on her lap and me shouting "more boost for christ's sake.. more boost !!":D/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
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  15. audi_girl
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    audi_girl Active Member

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    [Jan 7, 2003]
    [ QUOTE ]
    yeah but that is not available to us at the mo!! Talking current here!! Whats on the market now!!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    It is on the market now, and has been for some time. I just can't remember the name of the company - will ask my Kiwi mate if he remembers.
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  16. A4Steve
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    [Jan 7, 2003]
    Jo,

    But would i be able to get the support here in the UK! Its just when you have companies here that give you the support you deserve than i am going to stick with them as oposed to shipping stuff from NZ!!

    Does sound intriguing though would appriciate the link!!
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  17. Joshie
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    [Jan 7, 2003]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Surely a dealer can still detect it by just connecting a VAG 1551 to it and reading the boost table?
    If standard is 1.0 bar and it reads 1.4 bar then they'll know something ain't right surely, so then if the ECU is sent back under warranty what makes you think Audi won't read the code and refuse to honour the warranty?


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I think that the point is that the dealer endorses the warranty claim - not Audi themselves. So in my case Wayside were fully aware that I had an Abt ECU in and (because of their interpretation of what caused the fault [blown air intake pipe]) there was no problem with warranty. And Wayside send most of their cars to AmD anyway for engine upgrades so naturally this would not invalidate the warranty.

    But the idea of a programmable ECU though the serial port does have some appeal as it is easily reversible, if required.
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  18. audi_girl
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    [Jan 7, 2003]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Jo,

    But would i be able to get the support here in the UK! Its just when you have companies here that give you the support you deserve than i am going to stick with them as oposed to shipping stuff from NZ!!

    Does sound intriguing though would appriciate the link!!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Oh I see - sorry, misunderstood you.
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  19. A4Steve
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    [Jan 7, 2003]
    but if you could still get the link it would be appriciated!

    So what other companies are offering stuff like this?? MTM/SUperchips/ABT/AMD????
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  20. Justin
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    [Jan 7, 2003]
    This has to be a better option than opening up the ecu, soldering new chip etc. Warranty issues and obvious signs of the car being 'chipped' ignored it removes the problems that may occur from poor soldering etc.

    If you buy the dongle and revert to stock on dealer visits, then the system will be very hard to find, not impossible, but then agin show me a tuning company which has totally undetectable software. If you don't have the dongle, ie it is unswitchable, this is no different to any other 'unswitchable' tuning program, except no new chip soldered on.

    There is an excellent thread on the TT forum. Some of the guys have got a bit hung up on the detectable issue (tad anal if you ask me) but there is some good info.

    The clincher for me was the fact that the ECU wasn't opened up, and still have the ability to switch between programs, ie for dealer visits, and if you get the SPS3 system you can alter the ignition timing and boost levels manually (within safe parameters!!) ideal for the higher octane Optimax etc.

    link to TT TT Forum discussion on REVO

    One final point, I'm not paid by any tuning company so my views are unbiased, just my opinion based on the various products on the market, relative merits etc. I haven't taken the plunge yet but will be doing shortly.


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    [Jan 7, 2003]
    doesn't the encryption module used by all other tuners stop the dealer actually reading the code though?
    It's a well known fact that a dealer would very unlikely open an ECU and see the chip.
    If the dongle wasn't used and the code wasn't changed wouldn't the revo code be far more obvious as it's not hidden behind the encryption module?
    just trying to understand this not having a go before you revo boys start /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
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  22. Justin
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    [Jan 7, 2003]
    Ask Mitchell
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  23. Thorneyold
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    [Jan 7, 2003]
    To avoid starting a whole new thread on it check the TT link - anal amounts for detail there.
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  24. Justin
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    [Jan 7, 2003]
    hey, who do i need to thank for the stars - cheers!!
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  25. A4Steve
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    [Jan 7, 2003]
    [ QUOTE ]
    hey, who do i need to thank for the stars - cheers!!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Me mate!! Very informative!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
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  26. Justin
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    [Jan 7, 2003]
    ta very much!!
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    [Jan 7, 2003]
    so ECU goes back to Audi, code is encrypted somewhere but still stored somewhere, Audi may not be able to read what it is but they'll know it's different!
    An after all this publicity I'm sure they'll be looking for it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
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  28. Justin
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    [Jan 7, 2003]
    Jon,

    Its no differnt to any other chip/program in terms of detectability if Audi decide to look closely enough, so cant see what the big deal is.

    At the end of the day its a neat system, no soldering or opening up of ecu, switchable, variable timing and boost if you want it, and difficult to detect to the casual looker.

    Any alteration to the ECU will be detectable to the determined person!!
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  29. Thorneyold
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    [Jan 7, 2003]
    Agree, I've got to say its a neat solution compared to a chip solder the only downside is lack of RR to check it out.

    The fact the ECU remains unopened is a useful defence to warranty claims being thrown out but as has been said, if Audi REALLY want to know then they'll find out.
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  30. A4Steve
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    [Jan 7, 2003]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Jon,

    Its no differnt to any other chip/program in terms of detectability if Audi decide to look closely enough, so cant see what the big deal is.

    At the end of the day its a neat system, no soldering or opening up of ecu, switchable, variable timing and boost if you want it, and difficult to detect to the casual looker.

    Any alteration to the ECU will be detectable to the determined person!!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    So is there any other tuning co at the mo that has anything similar to offer???? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

    John what about AMD?
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    [Jan 7, 2003]
    No but there are lots of other companies offering serial programming.

    The only thing that concerns me is letting someone who potentially understands very little about tuning the chance to play with stuff they don't understand, what is the worst case scenario?
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  32. Justin
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    [Jan 7, 2003]
    What exactly are you saying? that REVO dont know what they are doing?? If so this is dangerous ground using the board to rubbish a competitor, Admin, owner or whoever

    If you mean the variable boost and timing I was under the impression you could only alter them with 'defined' limits and not outside the saftey tolerances.

    Now REVO seem to know what they are on about, I dont think they would be that stupid to allow jo bloggs public to alter the timing so much on the SPS3 that it started melting pistons and valves, do you?
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  33. A4Steve
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    [Jan 7, 2003]
    [ QUOTE ]
    No but there are lots of other companies offering serial programming.

    The only thing that concerns me is letting someone who potentially understands very little about tuning the chance to play with stuff they don't understand, what is the worst case scenario?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Is that not the beauty of this software!! By that i mean if like me you dont then you dont need to get the program which you can adjust the boost etc, you get the standard, and the optimax progs, if i then learn a little more i may feel confident enough to have a tinkle with it!!

    And if someone doesn't understand the complexity and then messes with it and blows the turbo then they deserve it IMHO!!
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  34. Thorneyold
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    [Jan 7, 2003]
    I have to say I agree. I'm sure John wasn't trying to say Revo don't know what they're on about - that would be both unethical and wrong considering his position at AMD and owner of this forum.

    Maybe what John is trying to say is that its new and as such we don't really know what could happen? Using companies such as AMD and MTM which have a long history of customer satisfaction goes in some way to provide comfort for tuning work and as Revo are essentially ex APR (another company with a good reputation) then I would assume the same for them.
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  35. A4Steve
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    [Jan 7, 2003]
    Thorney wasnt thinking that John was saying that, just curious as to why he has doubts, thats all!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
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  36. Administrators
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    [Jan 7, 2003]
    No one is rubbishing anything

    I was asking out of my own technical curiosity nothing else.

    If I was wanting to rubbish anything I'd create a fake login /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
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    [Jan 7, 2003]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Thorney wasnt thinking that John was saying that, just curious as to why he has doubts, thats all!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I doubt everything till I know how it works!

    tis why I read so many book on physics!
    that and they're guarenteed to give you a good night sleep /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
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  38. scoTTy
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    [Jan 7, 2003]
    John,

    Just for clarities sake, how do we know when you are representing AMDs views or when they are purely your own? I ask as you have a link to AMD in your signature?
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  39. Administrators
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    [Jan 7, 2003]
    I don't represent AmD's views ever!
    only my own, I am human and entitled to my own personal view if thats ok? and a sig is just a sig ok! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    I just happen to work there, I want to try and avoid the buy this product post myself personally, don't think it gives the right image.

    On here I am JUST John nothing more or less , but I still have the right to an opinion!
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  40. scoTTy
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    [Jan 7, 2003]
    Take a chill pill m8.

    It was only a straight question with no hidden meanings /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
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  41. Administrators
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    [Jan 7, 2003]
    no chill pill required, you read it wrong!

    you mised the smiley, shall I edit it to add more? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
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