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Time for a build thread....big turbo

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by S3Alex, Oct 19, 2010.

  1. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Apr 10, 2012]
    I'll try to put all of this in some sort of order.....

    I'd got the car to Stg2+,with about 360bhp and 360lbs,and obviously to go any further,there's only one way to get a substantial gain,and that's to change the turbo.

    The K04 tops out at around 360-380bhp,and even for those that claim to have got more,the thing is on it's last legs at that sort of power.
    Hybrids,such as the Turbo Dynamics K04,do offer a bit more,but even then,you won't get beyond 400-420bhp,so that didn't seem like a worthwhile course either.

    That left one of 2 routes....

    Either the BSH WOA kit,using a GT3071 and tubular manifold,or the ATP kit,and the latter is substantially cheaper,so that was the one.
    The last picture below is the entire kit,laid out before being assembled and fitted,but as with all US kits,some things don't fit,and some parts,such as the induction kit,aren't needed.

    What you do need is listed below:

    For up to 440bhp....

    1.Turbo kit.....either ATP or BSH,with a GT3071 or GT3076,although if you can get one,the GTX series turbos will give about 10-15% more flow.

    2.RS4/R8 injectors....the stock injectors run out of flow at around 400bhp.

    3.RS4 fuel pressure regulator.

    4.If you haven't already got one,a good CAI such as the ITG kit,and a good exhaust.

    5.Bigger intercooler.....I chose the ProAlloy as it's the biggest currently on the market,but the THS also works.

    As well as this,you'll need someone who can adapt the turbo kit's exhaust downpipe to fit a RHD car...more later.


    You would also be needing.....

    Big brake kit....VWRacing,AP,Brembo etc etc.

    Suspension upgrade.

    Haldex upgrade.

    If you want to be able to use the car properly.
    #41
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  2. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Apr 10, 2012]
    Above 440bhp you need a LOT more.

    The stock rods and pistons are good for 440bhp and 440lbs,but probably not a lot more,and I don't think anyone's going to risk bending a rod or holing a piston(as one person here did previously).

    You'll need:

    Engine rebuild...
    Including new pistons,such as Wossner or JE,

    New rods,such as PEC,IE,JE etc etc.

    New bottom end bearings

    Auxiliary fuel pump,as the stock system runs out at around 450bhp,and your engine will lean out.

    Top end doesn't need to be rebuilt if you don't intend to up the rpm limit,but if you do,then the Ferrera valve kit is superb.

    That little lot will take you to over 500bhp,and for more....

    Sorenson inlet manifold and extra injectors.
    #42
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  3. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Apr 10, 2012]
    Here's why the K04 isn't good for much above 360bhp...

    [​IMG]

    On the left is the stock K04 and on the right,is the GT3071.
    You can see the compressor,and especially the exhaust section of the GT3071 is MUCH bigger than the K04.

    Here's another...

    [​IMG]
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  4. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Apr 11, 2012]
    And to give an idea of how tight a fit this is around the transfer case,and prop shaft.....
    [​IMG]
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  5. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Apr 11, 2012]
    For Quattro1981...another example of the 2 turbos,but you can see the entire manifold and turbo casing of the K04 isn't much bigger than a GT3071 without all that.[​IMG]
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  6. quattro81
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    quattro81 All the gear.. No idea

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    [Apr 11, 2012]
    You the man, Alex! It always amazes me just how small the k04 is when you see it off the car.. Quite incredible that it can get you to 360bhp really.. What sort of pressure is it running at that point, mate? Are the three stages amd listed you above for the ko4 or the new beast? And I like the "sorry officer" - that's what I used to have written on the bottom of my numberplate on my GSXR when I was young (and difficult):asskicking:.. Got me pulled over tooooooo many times though
    It's gonna sound lovely (and go like stink!) with the GT on it:jump:.. You've gotta do a YouTube vid of it on boost, dude....!?

    This is one of my favourite build threads - very informative for someone who wants to know clearly and concisely what the options are for tuning the 2.0! Top drawer mate:icon_thumright: keep it up!!
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2012
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  7. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Apr 11, 2012]
    Thank you!....very kind.
    As far as I know,at it's limits,the K04 is at about 1.4-1.5bar,but it's pretty much run off the edge of its compressor map.
    The stages on the joke sheet from AMDEssex (or AMD Tuning as they are known now) are for the beast as it is now,and to run over 1.7bar,you need an external boost controller,as the ECU won't deal with pressures above that.
    I've got a load more to post up,as the engine is built and running,and I had left this thread for quite a while.
    #47
  8. quattro81
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    quattro81 All the gear.. No idea

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    [Apr 11, 2012]
    That sounds about right.. I had a hybrid k04 on my mk1 TT and it was struggling at 21psi... Can't wait to see what else you've gotta post up - makes a change from the usual "I've wrapped my car in fake carbon" threads :) this is all getting me properly back in the tuning mood for when the RS turns up - I'm gonna blame you when my mrs whinges at me for spending all my kid's pocket money at AMD:yes:
    #48
  9. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Apr 11, 2012]
    You know it makes sense!......those guys have done some outstanding work for me,and I couldn't recommend them highly enough.
    When your RS arrives,AMDEssex have already done quite a bit of work on a number of TT-RS's so the expertise is already there for those as well.
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2012
    #49
  10. quattro81
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    quattro81 All the gear.. No idea

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    [Apr 11, 2012]
    Sounds good, just hope there's some sort of decent induction kit out by the time I get it.. They seem to be virtually non-existent for the 2.5 lump? Wonder if you could mod an ITG or evoms from an s3 to fit?


    Actually talking poop here - just been on awesome gti and they have a pre-order available for the ITG for the TTRS
    #50
  11. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Apr 11, 2012]
    Revo are making one for the TT-RS in conjunction with ITG,so I would start there...the ITG on mine is superb.
    ITG Maxogen Air Filter Intake System for Audi TT RS 2.5 TFSI
    #51
  12. quattro81
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    quattro81 All the gear.. No idea

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    [Apr 11, 2012]
    #52
  13. Silky-S3
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    Silky-S3 Is loving his new 8V S3!

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    [Apr 11, 2012]
    Top thread, this is more like it! :)
    #53
  14. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Apr 11, 2012]
    To everyone so far....a big thank you.

    The purpose of boring everyone with this is simply in case anyone else feels like chucking a load of cash and hard work at their own cars,and hopefully avoiding some of the possible problems along the way.

    There are a lot of people I have to thank,but in particular,Jonny Cocker,from here and VAGOC,TEFF,MarioS3,Puckos,and so many others,all of whom have not only helped me,but saved me time and money in the process.

    I should also in a back-handed way thank S3 Big Andy,who's left the ranks,for inadvertently showing up a few problems,and in doing so,intend no disrespect.

    AMD Tuning(aka AMDEssex) deserve my thanks and my respect,and Shaun,Ben and Pat on the management side have been superb,whilst Steve and Kenny on the oily side(!) have my undying thanks.

    If you ever need work doing and you're in that area.....or even if you're not,go and see these guys.

    If you can run a race team,you can build cars and engines.
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2012
    #54
  15. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Apr 11, 2012]
    A couple more pics from the turbo install.

    A couple of posts ago,I'd mentioned oil and crud getting into the induction system and intake valves......well here's a picture from the old K04's intake elbow.

    [​IMG]

    It won't take much to see the oily residue all around the elbow,from the engine breathers that feed back into the intake,and the ones that come from the PCV feed this muck back onto your inlet valves.

    A good mate from VAGOC also sent me this picture of his inlet valves,and whilst I don't have pics of mine,they were much the same before the rebuild,so get yourselves a decent breather system.

    http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff258/Mario_RC/S3/BT/P1080513.jpg
    #55
  16. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Apr 11, 2012]
    Next problems came from buying a US based kit,for a UK spec car,and no matter how good everything is,and how many assurances you have that it will all fit,I'd just advise that you choose a tuner who has the expertise to weld and fabricate,in case there are any problems.

    The major areas that give trouble are the exhaust downpipe,which has to clear the transfer case and prop shaft(which of course aren't present on non-Quattro cars)and the brake master cylinder which is on the right hand side on our cars.
    That causes real problems for the turbo intake downpipe.

    Here is the supplied inlet downpipe(that's the bit that connects the inlet piping you can see,to the turbo which you can't.

    [​IMG]

    It's the elbow shaped pipe in the middle.

    Here's what we had to have built...

    [​IMG]

    You can see it's much shorter on the bend to the turbo,and the breather inlet has had to be relocated.
    #56
  17. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Apr 12, 2012]
    The next thing was sleeving that onto the turbo inlet.....

    [​IMG]

    A step from 2.5" to 3"...

    [​IMG]

    But the real problem is winkling something bigger than Audi intended,into a small space.

    [​IMG]


    You can see to the left of the intake elbow,is the brake master cylinder,and to the other side,the exhaust manifold,so there really is very little clearance in any direction.

    We used a fair bit of Zircoflex as heat shielding,and the inlet downpipe is stainless steel and pretty reflective.
    #57
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  18. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Apr 14, 2012]
    Next up was the exhaust pipe.....the turbocharger is an externally wastegated GT3071,and thus requires a dump tube,running from the wastegate into the exhaust.
    This was all supplied,but required a bit of bending and rewelding to make it fit around the transfer box,and also avoid the clutch and gear cables.
    [​IMG]
    This shows the entire downpipe,plus Zircoflex pads strapped around it to keep heat in the area down.
    [​IMG]
    #58
  19. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Apr 14, 2012]
    This shows just how little clearance there is between the downpipe and other things like the clutch cable etc,mentioned below....
    [​IMG]
    And another to show the manifold and downpipe....
    [​IMG]
    #59
  20. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Apr 14, 2012]
    This shot's more recent,while the clutch and gearbox are out,but shows firstly how tight the packaging is,and also how well the Zircoflex has stood up to the heat.
    [​IMG]
    #60
  21. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Apr 15, 2012]
    In the shot below,you can see bits of AMDTuning's attention to detail,like on the turbo oil return line(that's the large braided hose at the bottom of the picture)which has a black rubber sleeve fitted,to stop it cutting into the subframe....AND,for those that know JonnyC's S3,the line is not kinked.
    #61
  22. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Apr 15, 2012]
    This one is a bit futher on in the engine install,with the ITG intake going in,and the reason for including it is to show again how tightly packed the engine bay is,and how difficult it is to adapt and fit new parts.
    [​IMG]
    The external wastegate is the big shiny thing just beneath the cross-pipe of the ITG,and you can see how close all that is.......
    [​IMG]
    One external wastegate for ID purposes....
    #62
  23. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Apr 15, 2012]
    A picture of the whole thing jammed back into place.....
    [​IMG]
    If you look closely to the left of the oil filler cap,and slightly below,you'll see the custom bracket and placement for the N75 boost controller...more neatness from AMDTuning.
    #63
  24. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Apr 15, 2012]
    There was a little holiday from the modding before this appeared...
    [​IMG]
    #64
  25. RPB
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    RPB Active Member

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    [Apr 15, 2012]
    Water and Meth mix!?!? Talk to me! Lol.
    #65
  26. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Apr 15, 2012]
    P
    Well spotted!....

    Water alone is a worthwhile thing to inject and atomise into the intake,downstream of the intercooler,so you get the cooling effect from the latent heat of vaporisation of water.

    That on it's own won't increase power,but will aid a big intercooler in preventing intake temps rising dramatically under full boost,especially on hot days.

    By adding up to 50% by volume,of pure methanol,you get not only the cooling effect,but also methanol will raise the effective octane rating of your fuel by up to maybe a RON of 110,and you can thus push the timing a bit.

    There are a variety of kits out there,providing progressive boost dependent injection rates,from AEM,Snow Performance and Aquamist,and the AEM is one of the most straightforward to set up and use.

    Dont ever push timing without a proper RR setup,and remember what happens if you don't take it into account should you run out.
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2012
    #66
  27. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Apr 15, 2012]
    Where's the controller for the water/meth...?
    [​IMG]
    #67
  28. Mark S
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    [Apr 15, 2012]
    Epic, definitely something to aspire to! Dread to think how much it must have cost by now though.... :laugh:
    #68
  29. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Apr 15, 2012]
    P
    So do I.....!


    I actually do know how much it's cost,and not as much as it would have done to get an RS3 this far,so I justify it on those grounds.....you have to do that somehow.

    The way it picks up speed if you're overtaking or whatever is just hilarious for a shopping trolley.
    #69
  30. quattro81
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    quattro81 All the gear.. No idea

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    [Apr 16, 2012]
    I bet it's awesome! Did you get any printouts from your sessions mate? That would be some proper petrol-head info to drool over lol:rockwoot:
    #70
  31. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Apr 16, 2012]
    I've got a few from the earlier parts of this,which I'll get posted up in a bit,but the current mapping is still going on,as we've had a few problems with traction or something like that on the dyno,which aren't showing up on the road when it's been mapped there.
    We do know that despite that,it's well north of 460bhp,even with the dyno errors.
    #71
  32. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Apr 16, 2012]
    Time to unveil the WMI controller.....
    [​IMG]
    I love the way it's been hidden,and still easy to adjust if required...no wiring on show,and really neat......useless for smokers though!
    #72
  33. dc240969
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    [Apr 16, 2012]
    what year is yours? l dont remember a cover. unless lve forgotten about it
    #73
  34. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Apr 16, 2012]
    Have I got an update for later......!
    #74
  35. quattro81
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    quattro81 All the gear.. No idea

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    [Apr 16, 2012]
    Don't be a tease, Al! What is it? An afterburner!? Or perhaps you haven't got enough power already and you've decided to go for some Stage 3 fluffy dice :)?!
    #75
  36. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Apr 16, 2012]
    Hi dc.....it's an 08,apart from most of the engine and some other bits!
    #76
  37. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Apr 16, 2012]
    Nothing like a tease.....OK....it's spent a month having it's Easter holiday down at AMDTuning,most of which was spent waiting for the replacement for the new clutch,as the first one had a centre bearing that didnt fit .

    Anyway...after that was sorted,it's spent some time on the real road being mapped,and then on the RR,and due to traction issues,it won't pull properly on the dyno,so it will have to go to a different type of dyno for the figures.

    Before all of this,we had around 460-480bhp at 1.8bar,and with a clutch that doesn't slip,it will now run 2bar safely,and it's gone from being fast to fairly manic.

    After a really awful weekend for me,it put a huge smile on my face.
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2012
    #77
  38. dc240969
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    [Apr 16, 2012]
    l have to look. must have pushed it back and forgotten about it.
    #78
  39. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Apr 17, 2012]
    Engine mounts.....I could have chosen THS I suppose,but went with VWRacing mounts(these are the fast road as opposed to the solid race mounts)and these things really stop the engine flopping around.
    [​IMG]
    That's the lower pendulum mount and there's a picture of it in place here also....beneath the H&R ARB.
    [​IMG]
    Decent view of the top mount here,and what an S3 looks like minus it's gearbox....
    [​IMG]
    #79
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  40. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Apr 19, 2012]
    And to remind everyone of what it looks like before.....
    [​IMG]
    #80

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