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Time for a build thread....big turbo

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by S3Alex, Oct 19, 2010.

  1. KentKid
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    KentKid Active Member

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    [Sep 20, 2013]
    Sounds awesome – but going so far in to the red like that on the rev counter, I’d want to be 100% sure that the engine and everything else wasn’t being overworked; which is something I’m sure you’re well on top of!

    My 2+ also goes through the rev limiter, but I have to be honest and say that I try to not do so as I imagine it can’t be too good for the standard engine and turbo.

    That said, I suppose remapped cars wouldn’t be able to go through the rev limiters like that if it were harmful to the engine in any way…
  2. S.
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    S. Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 20, 2013]
    on the small k04 turbo, power drops somewhere arround 6800 rpm so there's no need to rev it over 7000rpm.
  3. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Sep 20, 2013]
    The head work includes not only porting and flowing the head for better airflow,but also changing the valvetrain for lighter,stronger valves,with an enlarged valve area.

    That allows you to run a higher rpm limit safely.

    As S. has already said,the K04 runs out of puff pretty early on,and will not produce much more flow above 6800rpm,but a good big turbo such as a GTX3076 isn't limited in the way that the K04 is.
  4. KentKid
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    KentKid Active Member

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    [Sep 20, 2013]
    Thanks S, I wasn’t aware of that.

    I will definitely try to time my gear shifts a centimetre or so into the redness to help get optimum performance…

    Not that I’m thinking of doing so, but just out of curiosity, what other parts are also required in swapping the standard turbo for something like a GTX3076… :)
  5. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Sep 20, 2013]
    Since you're not thinking of doing it,I'll give you the approximate list!

    This also assumes you're at Stg2+

    First,choose your kit.....either ATP Turbo or APR.

    The APR kit is based on the GTX2867 and will top out in the high 400s,and the ATP kit is customisable for anything from 500bhp up.

    Next:
    RS4 or similar higher flow injectors.
    RS4 fuel pressure regulator.
    Uprated LP fuel system.....either RS3 in-tank pump or USP Motorsports system.
    External boost controller if going above 1.7bar
    Clutch...you need something capable of way more than 440lbs.
    Engine rebuild if you go above 440-460lbs.
    Top end rebuild and porting should be considered.
    Water meth system.

    Also assumes you've done the suspension and brakes.
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  6. KentKid
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    KentKid Active Member

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    [Sep 20, 2013]
    Wow, that's quite the list! :-/

    Thanks for that, it's good to know what exactly's needed.

    I may well get on to Ben at AMD for a quote; but first things first, I should probably think about getting my clutch replaced.

    I'm currently running Revo 2+ (360/368) with the standard clutch, and although it's been fine, Stage 3 might be wishful thinking...

    It's not all doom and gloom though, as I already have the RS4 Fuel Pressure Regulator fitted, so I'm already part of the way there... ;-)
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  7. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Sep 20, 2013]
    If you are thinking of this,it's worth considering the Spec clutch I had fitted.....it's good for nearly 600lbs of torque and is light and easy to use around town.

    Ben can quote you for both the ATP kit(which looks cheaper until you add in a fair amount of work etc) and the APR kit as fitted to Decked's car recently.

    Choose which you want on the basis of what you ultimately want from the car,and you'll save a lot of time and money.

    Mine has been built up from scratch,at a time when both of the kits available were US based,and not really intended for UK RHD cars.


    Either way,I would budget on at least £6-7k to get it done properly.
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  8. KentKid
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    KentKid Active Member

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    [Sep 20, 2013]
    Thanks for the info, I reckon it's time to get saving!

    I may well get on to Decked to get his thoughts too...

    Currently running around 360/368 on the 2+ map, what figures would I be looking at realistically for Stage 3? Early 400's?
  9. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Sep 20, 2013]

    You see...you DID want it!

    You will easily get to 440bhp/440lbs with a GTX2867 or 3071.

    Anywhere more than that and you would need the engine rebuild......what I did was to run 440bhp for a while before biting the bullet and having the bottom end of the engine done,which is where it's currently at,and the head is the next item on the menu.

    P.S.I knew I'd forgotten something.....big intercooler is essential....ProAlloy/THS/APR/Airtec.
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  10. KentKid
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    KentKid Active Member

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    [Sep 20, 2013]
    That's more like it! A 440/440 split is definitely a bit of me... :)

    I've already got the Airtec intercooler fitted, so that's one less thing to worry about.

    Up next I'm getting the louder non-resonated part for my Milltek TBE. I'm going to swap out the standard resonated part and see how I get on with the extra noise...

    Also, after seeing your wide-boy in the flesh, I'm seriously thinking about getting spacers fitted all round to give my S3 a bit more width and a more planted stance!

    It's endless isn't it, lol... :-/
  11. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Sep 20, 2013]
    As you say,endless.

    There is always something else but that's the fun of it.
    A few years ago I wouldn't have thought my car would be as quick as the Escort was but it's getting close and a LOT more comfortable.

    At my age things like that make a difference!
  12. Sevv
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    Sevv Pushing the limits..

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    [Sep 22, 2013]
    turns out i was right... i only know these as my old 1.8T s3 had the same issue as your and tracked it down to the EGT and O2 sensors :D hope everything keeps going in the right direction
  13. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Sep 22, 2013]
    Indeed,and thanks for that.

    AMD were doing the right thing by working through everything methodically,and found the dirty MAF,faulty thermostat and a few others,but a faulty lambda probe that tells lies.....
  14. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Sep 26, 2013]
    Well....here's an odd one.

    After all the other things were tried,and a lot of head scratching,Steve had my car and another S3 hooked up to the PC's being logged at the same time,and found that whilst my throttle body works,and reads OK the load correction factor on mine was way higher than the other.

    What that meant was that more fuel was being chucked in,and seems to be the root of all the problems,as the car now runs fine at Stg4 and now just waiting for a new throttle body to replace the used one they tested as a replacement to check the problem out.

    It may have taken a while to track down,but if it hadn't been for the idea of logging two cars simultaneously,and checking all the parameters against each other,it would never have been found.

    Very pleased,and very happy with the effort to nail this.
  15. S.
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    S. Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 26, 2013]
    does that mean it's finally getting back to you?
    if so that's great news!!!
  16. leeds2592
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    leeds2592 When I grow up, I want a 964!

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    [Sep 26, 2013]
    Very good news, can finally start enjoying it again soon then? :thumbsup:
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  17. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Sep 26, 2013]
    Thanks very much!


    Looking very hopeful for getting it back soon.

    Just got the runner flap delete kit to fit,then the throttle body and then some mapping and then it's back on the road.
  18. S3_Mat
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    S3_Mat Active Member

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    [Sep 26, 2013]
    I wish I lived nearer amd essex! Sounds like they go the extra mile, glad you got a good result!
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  19. S.
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    S. Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 26, 2013]
    that's what we all wanted to hear :D
    happy days :D
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  20. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Sep 26, 2013]
    They honestly do.

    As I said earlier in this thread,Steve was in a few times at 5 a.m.,and working on the car,and they have always looked after me very well indeed.
  21. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Sep 26, 2013]
    Thank you!

    Hopefully happy motoring returning to a place near me soon.
  22. turbonutz
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    turbonutz Active Member

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    [Sep 26, 2013]
    so when you lifting the engine out for the 2.5 then? think its only thing missing here :p
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  23. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Sep 26, 2013]
    Ha ha!

    No I don't think I want a 2.5 in the car.

    To tune a 2.5 to this level would cost even more than this has,but there are a few things left in mind.

    The head needs to be flowed and ported,and I need a new inlet manifold,both of which will open up the engine a bit more.

    There is a 2.2L kit for the engine,but it's a bit of an unknown quantity,so I'll leave that until anything requires the engine to be stripped or lifted out.


    Another idea at the back of my mind is stripping some weight out,and getting more performance and handling from that angle as well.
  24. Sevv
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    Sevv Pushing the limits..

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    [Sep 26, 2013]
    congrats well thats always good news, by the way did you end up leaving the WMI on.. im toying with the idea of putting that on as well.. but you've said it eats the MAP / MAF though...

    what you thinking in terms of weight? Carbon body parts.. as im going down that root along with Light weight wheels.. and maybe lighten the boot , cant think of anything else without making the car look ghastly without any trims or carpet :p
  25. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Sep 26, 2013]
    Definitely keeping the WMI.

    It did crud up the MAP a little,but not to the point of it not working,and it's well after the MAF.

    Weight.....the rear seats are around 50-60kgs alone,so they might be on the agenda soon.
    The wheels and brakes are already about 30kgs down on the stock parts,but there's some to be lost if I buy some carbon wings and bonnet so to lose around 100kgs overall wouldn't be impossible.

    Now that adds up to a power/weight of around 360bhp/tonne without doing anything more engine-wise.....if we turn that up a bit more,then 400bhp/tonne would be doable with the head work.
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  26. Dean_T
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    Dean_T Active Member

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    [Sep 26, 2013]
    Great news Alex, celebratory couple of beers the weekend....? :thumbsup:

    Have you looked into the price of carbon bonnet and wings? I was thinking about trying to shed some weight from my S3 earlier in the week and I like the seats where they are :happy:
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  27. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Sep 27, 2013]
    Around £700 for a set of carbon wings from Osir,but not sure about the bonnet as OSIR prices are excessive right now,but Seibon do make one for less.

    The rear seats almost never get used,so they'd be easy to store,and as I said,that's a LOT of weight right there,but aside from that and the wings etc,weight loss isn't easy(sounds like me there too!).

    You also need to factor in paint,fitting and bonnet catches if you go for anything like that,as the stock bonnet catch isn't quite enough to stop a carbon one flapping around.
    There are some really nice flush fitting ones.
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  28. KentKid
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    KentKid Active Member

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    [Sep 27, 2013]
    Sounds like you're back in the game!

    Stage 5, stage 5, stage 5... :-D
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  29. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Sep 27, 2013]
    Hope to have it running by next week.

    In the meantime,the head and intake manifold are already planned,and just need time and organisation.
  30. Sevv
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    Sevv Pushing the limits..

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    [Sep 27, 2013]
    maybe get the 8P3 RS3 look.. thats what im thinking after the build as a bonus the car looks better and well it would be lighter due to the carbon parts not to mention the RS3 front bumper gives you some good cooling prospects.. keeps everything cooler
  31. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Sep 28, 2013]
    Never had any cooling problems even running around Brands last year.

    I prefer to keep the look as stock as possible but losing a bit of weight would be ok(and that applies to me as well!)
  32. Sevv
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    Sevv Pushing the limits..

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    [Sep 28, 2013]
    forgot your back end isn't a sport back .. them carbon wings you're talking about are proper expensive though. by the way i heard IE are coming up with a new inlet mani and the finally got there ported heads on sale after a long wait .. you might wanna have a look at them but i think theyll be on market in december january
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  33. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Sep 28, 2013]
    Thanks for the heads up...it does look interesting,and shows how many are still developing real performance parts for the TFSi.

    I've already sourced the head work and valvegear,and the manifold is in development.
  34. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Sep 28, 2013]
    News!

    Car back together.

    Injectors in place and delete kit fitted and best of all it starts!

    Almost ready.
    martinivw, Sevv, Dean_T and 2 others like this.
  35. S.
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    S. Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 28, 2013]
    nice alex :D
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  36. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Sep 28, 2013]
    Thanks indeed.

    It's been a long haul for all concerned,but I think a big vote of thanks for AMDTuning is needed as they didn't just give up or leave it half done and sort of working,but went the whole distance and found a very unusual fault.

    The fact that they logged 2 cars against each other and compared the variables to find it was very impressive(especially to someone whose knowledge is as limited as mine).

    Now I just have to pay for it!
  37. Sevv
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    Sevv Pushing the limits..

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    [Sep 29, 2013]
    nice... yeah paying for it is the bitter bit but getting in it will give you proper smiles esp. after 4k rpm :D .. so is it safe to safe to say its got 500-520 whp ...
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  38. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Sep 29, 2013]
    At the engine it should be at least 500bhp,as that's what it was before.

    Until the head and valves are done,I don't want to push it too far,but 2bar on the new turbo ought to be a bit more than on the old one,and with less stress.

    WMI system will also help,and the new diff ought to be pretty good as well......it's a whole year's overhaul basically,and allows time for the other bits to appear,and for me to have some fun before the bad weather comes along.
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  39. Sevv
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    Sevv Pushing the limits..

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    [Sep 29, 2013]
    sounds good i hope you enjoy every bit of it mate,
    dont mean to hijack your thread id love to get a ported head with a girdle kit but funds are tight ive only finished getting the box and engine.. still in the tubro and map .. i hope it will be as fun as its been off the road for 4 months and another 3 to come :((
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  40. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Sep 29, 2013]
    No worries at all.

    Your posts are always welcome.

    Just mod the way I did...a bit at a time.
    Makes each step fun.
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