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Time for a build thread....big turbo

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by S3Alex, Oct 19, 2010.

  1. Sevv

    Sevv Pushing the limits..

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    well for the stock map to work fine, i would say its the mapping thats the issue at hand.. but i guess its too early to judge until that stg 2+ is put and goes from there i guess.. i hope im not gonna run into that issue as im going same turbo as yours yiykes
     
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  3. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral
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    I know....

    There are two sides to it in that the map could be the issue or the stock map simply doesn't unmask the problem.

    The other thing is that the car was fine for 2 years on this map and did it before the new turbo went on.

    Need the Stg2+ map on first.
     
  4. Sevv

    Sevv Pushing the limits..

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    thats so weird as nothing seem to be the problem and you've cleaned everything else that might be a potential issue.. did you check the egt and o2 sensors ?
     
  5. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral
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    Believe me,I know!

    I think we're left with either the possibility,however unlikely,of data corruption,or as I said,that of the stock map simply not running the car at the levels that caused the problems.

    Hopefully news later.
     
  6. olethalb

    olethalb Active Member

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    haven't read very far back but i had a rich running problem which took a long time to solve, swapped ot every part imagineable.

    turned ot to be a duff rail pressure sensor, mounted on the fuel rail under and between runner 1 and 2, the readings were right on vcds but when i changed out the part it run perfectly once again.

    i assume you also checked the fuel pressure valve for debris or swapped it out?

    hope you find the problem soon.
     
  7. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral
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    Thank you!....all input is gratefully received and passed on.

    Yes,the rail pressure sensor,actual and demanded rail pressures,and the pressure regulator have all been checked,and are doing what they should be doing,given the inputs they're receiving.

    The car ran fine on the stock map a couple of days ago,and the Stg2/2+ map is going on today to see how it fares with that.
     
  8. jamiebennett81

    jamiebennett81 Active Member

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    Personally if I was running this setup and level of power, I wouldn't be going to AMD

    AMD for your basic stage 1/2 flash type maps, but for full on custom work, I would be going only to Badger5 or my personal preference is Niki at R-Tech to get a perfect map on this. Proper diagnostics would also be carried out....not saying AMD don't but for me R-Tech push the boundaries and set the benchmark in the tuning world which no other tuner has been able to match apart from Bill Brockbank
     
  9. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral
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    Well...I'll thank you for the opinion,but you may not have read the thread from start to finish,or seen any of the work that's been done.

    Mine is the first Stg4 S3 8P that they've built up from scratch,and apart from this issue with misfiring at idle,the car has been totally reliable from stock,right through to 500bhp+.

    From that time,they've built a few others up to Stg3 spec using both Revo and APR software,and as far as I'm aware of from the owners,no complaints either.

    The problem here is that the car has NO errors to go on,and all the the diagnostics have revealed is a constant "hunting" if you like,between set levels of fuelling,and 20% overfuelling.
    The diagnostics have also been shared with Revo,whose map is on the car,and having changed the following:

    MAP,MAF,air filter,thermostat

    That only leaves the other sensors which have been checked out and reading normally,such as rail pressure,Lambda probe and so on....the next step was to swap out the maps,and whilst the stock map fuels correctly,the uprated maps from both Revo and AMD overfuel,so the problem is not with the mapping either.

    What I have to ask you,is what leads you to make the comment about not going to AMD,despite them seeming to have the competence to run a BTCC team,and to build cars to the level mine has run perfectly at for over 3yrs.

    Now what I can't see is how many Stg3 or 4 S3 8P's or Golf R's that either R-Tech or Badger5 have built,but I do note however that Badger5 are now Revo dealers,so whilst I do not doubt that they're very good at what they do,I think I'll stick with people I know and trust personally,which is clearly where you are with your guys.

    I'm just not sure that either have built an S3 to this sort of power yet,but if you can point me to examples,let me know.


    BTW......yours is very nice indeed,and are those Berlin plates on the original pics?

    ANyway...if you're going to an AMD RR day in November,let me know when,and you might see mine there.
     
    #648 S3Alex, Sep 14, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2013
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  10. jamiebennett81

    jamiebennett81 Active Member

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    Personal preference really. Seen a lot of what Niki does, writing maps from scratch, pushing boundaries on standard ECU management which no other tuners have done, and leading the way in from K03, K03 Hybrid to big power big turbo cars, as he runs a silly powered MK4 golf himself.

    As for Bill Brockbank, I'm very surprised you have not heard of him, one of the biggest names in the VAG business. His 600bhp Ibiza Cupra speaks volumes, and is a master in fabricating and running silly power builds, and has done many big powered S3 builds.

    In regards to competently running a BTCC car, my opinion differs there, but that's a can of worms itself so I won't go down that route of discussion.

    I may be at the AMD RR in November, organised by Darren, always a good day, just depends if I can be bothered to get up early into the freezing cold.....

    As for my car, its a nail, but it goes.
     
  11. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral
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    First thing I need to ask is which branch of AMD it is that you're referring to.

    The point being that whilst I know of the good reputation of both Badger5 and R-Tech,I certainly wouldn't impugn their capabilities without personal experience,and certainly not on the grounds of personal preference,or I'd have to exclude all but a very few tuners that I know personally.
     
  12. jamiebennett81

    jamiebennett81 Active Member

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    AMD Essex
     
  13. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral
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    Well,at least that's cleared up.

    Since your view is based on personal opinion only,maybe it's best viewed as such unless you have something specific to back it up with.
     
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  14. Dean_T

    Dean_T Active Member

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    Not wanting to derail this thread but arent R-Tech and Badger 5's forte with the 1.8T lump?

    Hasnt Bill only just bought a Cupra to start developing the tfsi engine?
     
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  15. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral
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    Not at all.

    I was well aware of that when I asked about which 8P's both Badger5 and R-Tech had built to 500bhp or more.

    As Prawn and Superkarl know,the 1.8T is a very different engine to the 2.0 TFSi.
     
  16. superkarl

    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    Hows things going Alex? any news?
     
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  17. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral
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    Hi Karl,


    Things are going slowly.....we've been through a mountain of datalogging,and worked through a lot of the sensors on the car,either by replacing the known dirty ones(!),such as the MAF and MAP sensors,or by swapping out others,and replacing the faulty thermostat.

    All of the other sensors appear to be working correctly,and there are no error codes,but what we do know is despite all of that,the car is still hunting between correct fuelling and 20% overfuelling.

    So...today,out come some of the temperature and fuel pressure sensors,plus the lambda probe.
    All of these read and seem to work correctly,but given that others have seen problems with sensors that apparently work,but have had problems that are cured when one or other of those are replaced,that's where we're at today.

    The maps and logging have been checked by both AMD and Revo,and the STg2+ map put back on the car was one of AMD's,so we also know that the problem is not map specific.

    PITA for all concerned.
     
  18. superkarl

    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    you'd have thought that the up and down fueling would be seen when viewing blocks of various sensors. There has to be something thats making the car do that, a lambda bouncing around its readings for e.g, obv not enough for it to trigger a code.

    it would drive me crazy trying to find something like that! I can only imagine the frustration the techs at AMD are going through!
     
  19. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral
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    They can certainly see it on the logging,but not what's causing it to hunt around.

    All of the things that were wrong(and it's fascinating how much redundancy is built into these engines) like the MAF and so on,have been fixed......I didn't realise that if something like the MAF goes down,then the ECU defaults to the MAP sensor and runs on that,and so on.

    One point for the doubters like jamie,is the hard work they've put into it,with Steve in particular,rolling up at 5 a.m. to start work on it(and I know that for a fact as my tracking company notified me),but I think a degree of frustration is setting in,for all of us,as all of the likely things get ticked off.
     
  20. Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev.

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    Hi Alex,

    you mentioned MAP then MAF sensor over reading, which is it? What happens when MAF is unplugged? A map that does not give any problems for two years will not be your problem :)

    Rick
     
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  21. Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev.

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    Sorry for mini thread jack!

    Nick is very good, no question. But not the only one to push boundaries on std management. We have tuned 530hp 1.8T's 700hp+ 2.7T's and 400+hp 2.0Ts. We were pretty much the first to bring launch control to the 1.8T and 2.7T and were the first to offer upto 5 different map sets for different fuels, boost, methanol etc. We offer switchable E85/Petrol maps that will run and start perfectly at -25C. We are the only people that also offer all these features for the 2.0T engine too. :)

    Thanks, Rick
     
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  23. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral
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    Hi Rick,

    We went through the various scenarios with Revo,and as you say,it's not the map,as we tried another map and got the same issues.

    The MAF was pretty grubby and beyond cleaning,so it was replaced,but the MAP sensor turned out not to be an issue either as it was not only swapped out,but found to be an error in reading the values,so that was excluded as well.
     
  24. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral
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    Mini-thread jack accepted!

    As I'd said to jamie,I'm not really interested in the 1.8T as it really hasn't got a lot of relevance to this problem,and whilst there are a lot more software companies in the area now,Revo were pretty much the first to develop the Stg4 and 5 maps for the TFSi,and have always been very helpful to me when tracking down any issues we've had.

    I've got a few settings on the SPS for mine,and the boost control is done via a Gizzmo boost controller,so I've got 8 different settings on that,plus the WMI set to begin at 0.8 bar,and top out at 2 bar,running the large nozzle on that system.

    The most difficult thing is not only that the car has run for over 2yrs on this setup without a hiccup,but there are no errors to go on.
     
  25. Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev.

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    If you've ruled out all sensors etc then it's time to look at the mechanical aspects. I has one recently that had decided to lunch its cams :( Also check flapper operation - if they stick they can give horrid idle and it maybe that your map has the diagnostics removed for this so it won't throw a code - seen that too. Fuel pump follower is another easy one to change.

    Good luck!

    Rick
     
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  26. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral
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    Hi Rick,

    It was also tested with the stock factory map.

    HPFP follower recently changed.

    Flapper and intake manifold dismantled checked and cleaned inc throttle body!
     
  27. Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev.

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    Cams next then!
     
  28. S3_Mat

    S3_Mat Active Member

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    Rick can you explain how you come to the conclusion that the cams may be causing the engine to run rich? If the cams were worn would they not be more likely to make it run lean as the valves would be open for a shorter period?
     
  29. Granta

    Granta Active Member

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    Not necessarily as they won't be opening the valves enough so you won't be getting enough air into it so less air = more fuel into the mixture. Although I don't think this is the fault
     
  30. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral
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    I think it's been tracked to the lambda probe which was working but having been replaced things are now looking better.
    Stg3/4 maps being tried now.
     
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  31. S.

    S. Well-Known Member
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    finger crossed it's going to be fine now :D
     
  32. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral
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    For sure!

    Ben just emailed me with that piece of news.

    The thing is that the original probe was producing data and seemingly working properly but from the sound of it giving incorrect data to the ECU.
     
  33. KentKid

    KentKid Active Member

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    Let there be light! :)
     
  34. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral
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    Let there be some light in the cylinders or the end of the tunnel!
     
  35. S.

    S. Well-Known Member
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    just be sure that the light on the end of the tunnel is not train :jester:

    jokes aside, i hope it's finally fixed and that you'll get the beast as soon as possible :beerchug:
     
  36. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral
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    Better not be a train.

    LOL
     
  37. Dean_T

    Dean_T Active Member

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    Hope the map load goes ok
     
  38. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral
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    No further news today.

    Stg2+ went ok but the real test is getting the Stg4 map back on and running.
     
  39. KentKid

    KentKid Active Member

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    Great news Alex, I know it's been a bit of an ordeal.

    I'm assuming you will need to go to Stage 3 before you can go back to Stage 4?
     
  40. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral
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    No.... It should simply mean loading the Stg4 software and seeing how it goes on that.

    The difference is that Stg3 is for a BT without engine rebuild and Stg4 for the rebuild and yes,there's the Stg5 map after the head and valves are done.

    Lol.
     
  41. KentKid

    KentKid Active Member

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    Ok, that’s even better – you won’t have to wait too much longer then!

    Haha, Stage 5. Epic.

    How much more of a bhp/torque increase is Stage 5 going to be over Stage 4? Are we talking a minor increase, or significant gains?
     
  42. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral
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    As far as I understood it,what you get is basically an 8000 rpm limit,and the biggest gains will be found on a turbo optimised for high rpm boost(i.e. large A/r turbine) and you'd be looking at an extra 10% or so at peak rpm.

    So it's Stg4 with a higher rpm limit.

    As to what I hope we can do with mine,the bigger turbo will be less stressed,and better able to produce flow at lower compressor speeds,but I need to get the head flowed soon,as I wouldn't want to push it much further on the stock head.

    Also getting the APR runner flap delete kit fitted.
     

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