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Tie Bars fitting help!

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by jojo, Apr 23, 2013.

  1. jojo
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    jojo Looking for Boost! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 23, 2013]
    I'm stuck as bloody usual! lol So much for 'just' 2 bolts, getting it off was easy, 30 minutes max on axle stands lying on my back, reverse was somewhat tricky, it took me ages to line up the holes to thread the bolt though the subframe, these poly bushes are oversized, is that the way it's meant to be?

    Now is there an easy way to get the rose joint to line up with the bars for me to put the bolt through to complete the job on one side? After 3 hours, I'm goosed, so given up for the day!
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  3. jojo
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    jojo Looking for Boost! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 23, 2013]
    I have tried extending and shortening the tie bars, but still no joy.
    #2
  4. Jason.s
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    Jason.s Active Member

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    [Apr 23, 2013]
    Fitting them to the top or bottom? Got Dave's bars I take it?
    #3
  5. s3clarke
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    s3clarke Money grabbing s3!

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    [Apr 23, 2013]
    I'll buy ur old 1's if u wanna sell them? I have somebody that will make me some.
    I've got my coilovers to do the weekend :)
    #4
  6. Simplicity
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    Simplicity Member

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    [Apr 23, 2013]
    I had the same issues last weekend. The bushes fitted to the tie bars are wider than the standard ones and make fitting quite difficult.

    My solution was to tweek (hammer) the flanges on the sub frame a little to open then up a touch to accept the wider poly bush
    #5
  7. jojo
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    jojo Looking for Boost! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 23, 2013]
    Bottom, I have a set of original Dave bars which I purchased many moons ago. Now I know why I never got round to fitting them! Lol :keule:
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2013
    #6
  8. dusty
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    dusty Member

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    [Apr 23, 2013]
    I had the same problem I put a little smear of fairy liquid on the faces of the bush and then knocked them into position with a mallet, to connect the other end carefully jack the hub up on the bottom arm to help line the bolt hole up, also I would make your adjustable arms the same length as the ones you've taken off, it will give you a good base line to start from
    #7
  9. jojo
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    jojo Looking for Boost! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 23, 2013]
    I did the same length thing prior to fitting, how does jacking the hub make it easier to line up? I have to push firmly onto the disc face to inert the bolt, but I can't get it to come through the other end, as the rose joint moves! Maybe an extra pair of hands would have been handy?
    #8
  10. dusty
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    dusty Member

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    [Apr 23, 2013]
    Sorry thought you were fitting to them to the top
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  11. jojo
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    jojo Looking for Boost! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 23, 2013]
    I will let you know once I'm happy the geo is all setup Graeme.
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  12. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid Supporter

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    [Apr 23, 2013]
    Washing up liquid on the inner bush then they move easy, i wire brushed mine to get the scale off, align the outer bracket up to the hub, and get it near with a large screwdriver going through it all then push the bolt through...simples..:laugh:
    #11
  13. rhubarb4
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    rhubarb4 Certified Jardo Slayer

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    [Apr 23, 2013]
    Dont worry Joe we will sort it thursday, so glad I got the garage to fit mine haha they had hassle fitting them on a ramp so can imagine your stress.
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  14. rhubarb4
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    rhubarb4 Certified Jardo Slayer

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    [Apr 23, 2013]
    oh il bring my hammer :eyebrows:
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  15. jojo
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    jojo Looking for Boost! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 23, 2013]
    I tried this Dave, had screwdriver on other side. As I tried to punch the bolt through, the screwdriver would fire out, but the rose joint would move and stop the bolt dead! Grrrrr
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  16. jojo
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    jojo Looking for Boost! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 24, 2013]
    Just out of curiosity, does it actually matter which way the bolt goes through? I'm obviously trying to put it together as intended, but if I could put the bolt in back to front, it would make life easier methinks.
    #15
  17. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 24, 2013]
    Fit um to the rose joint first then into the subframe...

    <tuffty/>
    #16
  18. s3clarke
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    s3clarke Money grabbing s3!

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    [Apr 24, 2013]
    I can give you a hand if you need an extra pair of hands mate? I hate doing fiddly things on my own at the best of times.
    #17
  19. voorhees
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    voorhees Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 24, 2013]
    It took me half an hour to fit mine


    :laugh: hope that helps
    #18
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  20. jojo
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    jojo Looking for Boost! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 24, 2013]
    I thought about this Paul, but it took me over an hour to line the subframe bit, so I wasn't about to undo it again! Noway! Lol
    #19
  21. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 24, 2013]
    Its easier as you use the tie bar to lever in place... also jacking the whole assembly up a bit helps as the suspension arcs round as it drops... this should help line it up...

    I did a set of Daves new tie bars the other weekend without removing the rear wheels... :laugh: hope that helps

    <tuffty/>
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  22. jojo
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    jojo Looking for Boost! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 24, 2013]
    I hear you, will give it a bash in the evening if the weather holds up, I'm busy for the day otherwise.

    Thanks for the offers of help from everyone also, I will buy a crate of beer later! Lol :beerchug:
    #21
  23. s3clarke
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    s3clarke Money grabbing s3!

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    [Apr 24, 2013]
    I'll fly down after work if you want just txt me if you need a hand dude
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  24. voorhees
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    voorhees Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 24, 2013]
    I'll send the missus over to change em for you


    :laugh: Hope that helps
    #23
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  25. jojo
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    jojo Looking for Boost! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 24, 2013]
    P!ssoff! :eiertritt:
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  26. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Apr 24, 2013]
    Aren't we meant to fit these to the Top? I can never remember but I'm sure mine are top and weren't this much hassle.
    #25
  27. Sam_
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    Sam_ Down under

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    [Apr 24, 2013]
    Or fit both and get the alignment spot on ;)
    #26
  28. jojo
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    jojo Looking for Boost! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 24, 2013]
    I started a thread on this, and the case was it didn't matter if they are on top or bottom, I put them on the bottom for ease of access for adjustment, and easier installation(I was hoping there wasn't I?). Had to modify the height level sensor bracket though, as Daves bars are round, and a bit chunkier, but around 3mm.
    #27
  29. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Apr 24, 2013]
    I thought they gave more adjustment being on the top? Thought this is what people found when getting cars aligned. I definitely went top then as I know I didn't have to do anything with the level sensor.
    #28
  30. Sam_
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    Sam_ Down under

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    [Apr 24, 2013]
    Whichever can get you to 1-1.5° camber and 0 toe I guess. Mine was on 2°30 camber and 4.5mm toe in. Now it's 1°30 camber and 0 toe in and it feels awesome. So planted.
    #29
  31. Sam_
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    Sam_ Down under

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    [Apr 24, 2013]
    #30
  32. kwistof
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    kwistof South East Events Moderator Regional Rep

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    [Apr 24, 2013]
    As you've replaced the bottom ones, do you now need to get the sensor re-calibrated as per what Forge says in post #16?

    http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-...llow-adequate-adjustment-help.html#post768557
    #31
  33. dusty
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    dusty Member

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    [Apr 24, 2013]
    Mine are fitted to the top I've managed to get rid of the camber but since fitting them I've noticed the rear wheels look like there toeing in if I fit adjustable arms to the bottom can you adjust toe in with them
    #32
  34. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 24, 2013]
    Not exactly... toe will need to be adjusted by undoing the swing arm mounts... you sometimes have to tweak the tie bars to counter the adjustments... when tie bars are fitted to the bottom and adjusted in to lessen camber, this will cause the rear to move towards toe out generally... fitting to the top and adjusting out to lessen camber will cause the rears to move towards toe in.. all to do with the pivot points...

    My thoughts on the fitting to the top or the bottom argument can be viewed as this (theoretically)... when fitting to the top you need to extend the adjustable screw to lessen camber thus increasing the potential for stress across arguably the weakest point of the structure, when fitted below you wind in the adjustable screw which decreases the potential for stress at this point... this is my view on it and open to discussion but when I looked at fitting my KW's to the top it appeared that the adjuster mechanism extended a little too far for my liking so I kept them on the bottom as per the fitting instructions..

    <tuffty/>
    #33
  35. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Apr 24, 2013]
    Can of worms opened here!

    It would be interesting to hear from the people who have had failures and see if they were fitted top or bottom.
    #34
  36. Sam_
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    Sam_ Down under

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    [Apr 24, 2013]
    Also depends on the design. If the adjusters in the middle of the bar then that's got to be weaker than on each end.

    When mine was setup yesterday, he adjusted both arms to get zero toe and 1°30 camber.
    #35
  37. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 24, 2013]
    Isn't everything? its subjective as hell mate like everything... it was not so long ago nobody realised the OE ones broke due to seizing bushes... there have been a few reports of Forge and KW failures in the past but without seeing the pics etc its difficult to comment... the early Forge ones were based on OE so most likely failed in the same way as OE ones did due to duff bushes, I have seen tie bars where the locking nuts have come loose... this could have contributed to the KW failures in the past as the KW adjusters are a smaller diameter than most...

    <tuffty/>
    #36
  38. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    [Apr 24, 2013]
    if you had both bars adjustable you'd simply wind them both in exactly the same to maintain camber, whilst pulling/pushing the whole assembly in or out on the pivot point at the front of the trailing arm. So yes.

    there is a little adjustment at the trailing arm as the bolt holes in the assembly attatched to the car have elongate holes, not round, so you have 2-3mm side to side movement for toe adjustment.

    EDIT: my 2p, having had hell with alignment. have the trailing arm pulled all the way out. and adjust your 1 tie bar to achieve the toe and camber you want.
    when you lower these gay ass cars you get silly camber, so when you're fitting tie bars to counter act this, you are effectively creating even more toe in - hence why i say pull the trailing arm mount all the way out.

    and lastly, to really get this right, which is vital really on a 4wd car, you need a competent mechanic and alignment specialist who actually knows what is doing what. takes fiddling, and compronmise between the 2 adjustments.
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2013
    #37
  39. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    [Apr 24, 2013]
    could you have a word with the dude, and ask how he approaches it on your car.
    i know you have both adjustable bars. but clearly hes the dogs goolies and got your alignment absolutely sweet.
    at awesome, i had to actually go into the workshop, and literally show the young lad what to undo and move to adjust what!
    #38
  40. dusty
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    dusty Member

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    [Apr 24, 2013]
    Hi Karl can you recommend anyone local to us for alignment I live in chorley
    #39
  41. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    [Apr 24, 2013]
    honestly, i dont know anyone mate.
    last time i went to my mates garage in tarleton and we did it there best we could, ive only got a tiny bit of toe in now, and a sensible -1.abit degree camber. if i were to get the rear perfectly parallel id prob need another set of arms tbh. but im happy as it is.
    #40

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