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Throttle Body Alignment (TBA) - without VCDS

Discussion in 'VCDS (formerly VAG-COM) forum' started by Winchmore, Sep 17, 2013.

  1. Winchmore
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    Winchmore Member

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    [Sep 17, 2013]
    Hi,
    Had the wiper motor changed - the ECU and battery was disconnected

    Car in limp mode with following codes :

    #1) 17987 - Throttleactuator - adaptation not started. Code 17987
    17987/P1579/005497 - Ross-Tech Wiki


    #2) 17951 - Angle Sensor 1 for Throttle Actuator (G187)
    #3) 17580 - AngleSensor 2 for Throttle Actuator (G188), Signal too Low

    Audi A4 B5 1999 Auto

    Can clear the codes with handheld but unable to turn off ECU light and limp mode. The same above codes keep coming back...

    This happened once before and we cleaned the TB - worked fine since....now

    Any advise welcome

    Rgs
    Sheffield S11
    #1
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  3. Winchmore
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    Winchmore Member

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    [Sep 18, 2013]
    Local Garage saying to change ECU.


    Anyone with VAG in Sheffield :)
    #2
  4. S3 Paul
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    S3 Paul Well-Known Member Regional Rep

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    [Sep 19, 2013]
    Hello,
    Im sure ive come accross this or something like it before,
    The person then didnt want to spend any money...
    Im guessing its a throttle cable model not a drive by wire?
    I have VAG COM and can read the codes for you but i dont know of any procedures to clear or reset the issue off the top of my head,
    #3
  5. bez101
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    bez101 Yorkshire & Humber Rep. Regional Rep VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 19, 2013]
    it needs to go on vcds for a TBA

    and if that wont work then a new throtlebody
    #4
  6. Winchmore
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    Winchmore Member

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    [Sep 19, 2013]
    Thanks

    I think it is Drive by wire.

    Maybe first get it just cleaned up and then Aligned...

    [FONT=Arial, Trebuchet MS]17987/P1579/005497- Throttle Actuator (J338): Adaptation Not Started[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Arial, Trebuchet MS]Throttle Body Alignment (TBA) not performed[/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial, Trebuchet MS]Someexamples of reasons to perform a TBA: [/FONT]
    1. [FONT=Arial, Trebuchet MS]The vehicle's battery has been disconnected and re-connected[/FONT]
    2. [FONT=Arial, Trebuchet MS]The ECU has been removed and reinstalled[/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial, Trebuchet MS]TheThrottle Body has been cleaned or removed and reinstalled[/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial, Trebuchet MS]TheAccelerator Pedal has been removed and reinstalled[/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial, Trebuchet MS]Insome vehicles, the car will not run correctly, or may not run at allwithout performing a TBA after one of the above operations.[/FONT]


    [FONT=Arial, Trebuchet MS]Thereare certain test conditions that must be met before doing a TBA:[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Arial, Trebuchet MS]No DTC's in the Engine Controller[/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial, Trebuchet MS]Batteryvoltage at least 11.5 V[/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial, Trebuchet MS]Throttlemust be at idling position (keep your foot off the gas pedal)[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Arial, Trebuchet MS]Throttle body part must not be dirty (carbonized).[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Arial, Trebuchet MS]Coolant temperature must be between 5 and 95C[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Arial, Trebuchet MS]If fault codes were cleared cycle the ignition off and back on prior to running Basic Settings.[/FONT]

    [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Throttle_Body_Alignment_(TBA)[/FONT]



    Failed Throttle BodyAlignment causes:
    Dirty throttle Body
    Low system voltage(check battery)
    Cable Adjustment Issue
    Wiring Harness issue
    Faulty Throttle Body
    Faulty ECM
    Outsideinfluence...check 02 sensors
    #5
  7. S3 Paul
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    S3 Paul Well-Known Member Regional Rep

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    [Sep 19, 2013]
    If its the drive by wire ( same as my 2001 S3) i can have a look for you.
    Drop me a PM to discuss?
    #6
  8. Winchmore
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    Winchmore Member

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    [Sep 19, 2013]
    That will be great! yes its drive by wire

    Did have a look at VCDS-light with the Gendan cable...but now depends if the B5 is finally nearing its end :]
    #7
  9. Winchmore
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    Winchmore Member

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    [Sep 20, 2013]
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2013
    #8
  10. @udi A3
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    @udi A3 Site Sponsor Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 24, 2013]
    Yes vcds will adapt the new ecu. I would be inclines to try tba first though unless there is signs of damage through corrosion etc on ecu.

    Happy to help out with vcds, thanks tom
    #9
  11. Winchmore
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    Winchmore Member

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    [Sep 24, 2013]
    Many Thanks for your help today Tom!

    *update*
    Good news : Ecu replaced and TBA ok. No error codes

    Bad news : Car not starting - no error codes on VCDS

    This also may have been issue with the old ECU as it was only starting in limp mode and now looks to have gone to this stage. VCDS dump was taken.

    Sound like an mechanical issue now. The only change was replace wiper motor (remove battery & ECU) and replace coolant temperature sensor.

    Any other ideas apart from the obvious :

    Battery (car been sat for 5 days voltage tested ok)

    Starter motor
    fuel pump
    Fuel pump relay (previous error due to old ecu pin connection)
    #10
  12. bez101
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    bez101 Yorkshire & Humber Rep. Regional Rep VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 24, 2013]
    so the car is still not starting ?

    are you geting fuel ?
    #11
  13. Winchmore
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    Winchmore Member

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    [Sep 24, 2013]
    Yes - ECU fine no fault codes so moved a step further

    Can smell the petrol
    I wonder if the engine is flooded...
    #12
  14. @udi A3
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    @udi A3 Site Sponsor Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 25, 2013]
    Ecu plugged had suffered heavy water damage, I wouldnt know where to begin with testing the wiring for shorts further up the loom.
    Old ecu would not allow the throttle body alignment. Assume drivers damaged due to water damage.
    New ecu adapted, TBA completed, no error codes stored with VCDS.
    Battery voltage good, spark good.

    If the engine is flooded it would start today. Another way to start a flooded engine is remove all leads and push them on so they only just touch the plugs but dont clip on them. (not sure why this works).

    Also try removing cam belt cover to check cams turn when cranking.

    I suspect there is another damaged sensor/actuator caused by the water.

    Im sorry I dont know enough about petrol engine management to help you further :(

    Here are the extracts from the initial VCDS log, all codes were cleared, even after failing to start, but as i said, somethine may come back when it starts, feel free to pop round on the way to work.

    #13
  15. bez101
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    bez101 Yorkshire & Humber Rep. Regional Rep VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 25, 2013]
    are they any relays in the ecu box as if they got wet they can stop starting
    im not up on the B5 really
    #14
  16. @udi A3
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    @udi A3 Site Sponsor Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 25, 2013]
    I didnt notice anything in the ecu box, but thinking about it i didnt see the gromet to the bulkhead either, maybe water got down to the relay rack under the driver side dash?
    #15
  17. Winchmore
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    Winchmore Member

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    [Sep 25, 2013]
    Many thanks chaps!

    This was the issue a year ago. Sorted after the pin cleanup.Audi A4 B5 starting problems Changing the wiper motor may have not only disturbed an old issue but introduced some new ones.Also replaced at the time was coolant temperature sensor.

    The car would start but rev was low. Would drive in limp mode. TB Codes would not clear.After sitting for a few days the car would not start or rev.


    After trying to start a few times...the oil light does come up sometimes...

    Will have a look at the battery and relays under the driver dash. Check the obvious and the over to the Auto expert.

    Steady as she goes...nowhere....all things end at some point :)
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2013
    #16
  18. Winchmore
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    [Sep 29, 2013]
    All sorted and been running fine for a few day!

    Ecu harness female connector rewired. One wire housing connector had corrosion and was replaced with a used one. TBA came to life and engine started to cough but did not start. Was all gassed up and re jumped to start it up.

    Learning experience is make sure your connectors look ok. Looking for a good way to check Continuity on each wire from harness to the socket. A loose connection will just throw up a bunch of codes or nothing at all...
    #17

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