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This is driving me MAD can anyone help?

Discussion in 'A6/S6/Allroad forum (C5 Chassis)' started by robbie.kk, Aug 14, 2009.

  1. robbie.kk
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    robbie.kk New Member

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    I have an A6 2.0 TDI. I have owned it for about 4 months. I purchased it from an Audi Specialist in Warwick. They currently accept no responsibility for the problem I have with the car.

    The problem that remains relates the car when it idles. After a couple of miles running and sitting in traffic the car idles at about 8000 rpm, but every 2 or 3 seconds it appear to miss a beat and the car kind of wobbles?

    Audi have ultrasonically cleaned the injectors and replaced the injector seals based on information received from Audi UK.

    The car was returned with the same fault. Audi had it back for a further 4 days and were unable to diagnose the problem. The are no fault codes present. I've removed the Mass Air flow Meter plug and this has also made no difference.

    Yesterday Audi arranged for the mobile technician to call and start from scratch.

    He was at a loss!

    These are the symptoms:

    1. Erratic Idle - car wobble
    2. Hesitate when pulling away
    3. Revving the car through the range there is a problem at 1800 rpm
    4. There is strange noise from the engine every 2 seconds
    5. There is knocking when changing gear from 1st to 2nd
    The technician did not rule out that the injectors may need to be completely replaced. However, he also felt that there may be something misaligned within the engine?????

    Apologies if you see the same post on other forums, I really am at a loss and I don't know where to turn . If you can help or know of anyone else that can help I really appreciate it.

    Many Thanks!

    Rob
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  2. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Dual mass flywheel is common for irregular idle and knocking when pulling away, it is expensive to replace tho especially if the original garage isnt accepting responsability
    #2
  3. robbie.kk
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    robbie.kk New Member

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    Would that cause an idle problem and the 1800 rpm problem?
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  4. A3Monster
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    A3Monster Faster pussy cat!

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    Ahh.. I had almost EXACTLY the same symptoms you describe in my A3 1.8T sport. i hope my story will give you some hope.

    I had error codes saying it was idling to high, running to lean as well (don't have the numbers to hand, sorry).

    Anyway, it turns out a bleed pipe was split and the engine was sucking in more air; making the lamda ask for more fuel to compensate.

    It used to over rev after a long run like you say, sat at lights, and then sometimes it would splutter like it was going to cut out. More often, it was over revving - using more fuel of course as well. Sounded rough on start up too.

    I thought it would be something terrible and expensive like the idle sensor on the TB, the coil packs or the coolant sensor. Turned out to be none of these. Runs like a dream now.

    I take it to my fantastic local garage who diagnosed and corrected the fault. They are the best.:blackrs4::yahoo:
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  5. A3Monster
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    A3Monster Faster pussy cat!

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    Oh and mine was making a 'clicking' noise when it tried to correct itself - is this the noise you describe??
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  6. A3Monster
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    A3Monster Faster pussy cat!

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    Oh and mine was hesitating when pulling away too. Drop in air pressure of course.

    I'm such a muppet tonight... should remember to put everything on my first reply!!!

    :keule:
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  7. JimC64
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    JimC64 Active Member

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    [​IMG]

    Had similar problems myself, but, only after the car went in to Audi for some other work:confused:
    Initially I had a coolant loss problem ( see my thread ) and took it to them religiously, so much so that they replaced the cylibder head (( twice ))
    Anyhow, since I've had the car back it has this hesitation, usually around 2000rpm and in 1st through to 4th most noticeable I'd say. Needless to say I'm not best pleased and sent it straight back to be sorted.
    I've had feedback as follows....found a hole in the intercooler that needs fixed and they're also going to replace the injector seals, so we'll see how that goes??
    I'll try n drop by with an update as to how it goes

    Jim
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  8. robbie.kk
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    robbie.kk New Member

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    The first garage I visited said it might be the intercooler??? Can you keep me updated?
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  9. JimC64
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    JimC64 Active Member

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    [​IMG]

    Hey Robbie, no problem. I always try to post any updates after the car has been in for work and I've posted of the problems anyway.
    I usually always make a point of speaking to the service personnel AND asking the techs to come thru to the front and explain what the problem was as well as the fix.
    Once I have that info and the car back.....prbably Mon / Tues I'll post it and advise how the problem seems at that time.

    Jim
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  10. JimC64
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    JimC64 Active Member

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    [​IMG]


    UPDATE -

    Just had a call from the Audi tech working on my car to keep me abreast of whats going on.
    He's fitted a new intercooler which he seems confident has resolved the hesitation issue I've suffered with.
    The injectors have been removed and cleaned and they're now going to fit new injector seals which he thinks will solve the cold / non start issue.

    I'll let you know how it goes

    Jim
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  11. robbie.kk
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    robbie.kk New Member

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    Sounds good so far - thanks!
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  12. JimC64
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    JimC64 Active Member

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    [​IMG]


    UPDATE - Replaced the intercooler and also the injector seals. Car still hesitating slightly and also not starting as well as it should I've now been told. I haven't had the car back from the dealers yet, this is an update call from the Audi tech to keep me advised.

    Now going to try swapping the injectors to see if the fault moves and then possibly replace them to see how it is after that.
    May see the car back Mon / Tues if all goes well.

    As before I've told them to keep it and hand it back only when 100% sure all is as it should be.

    Jim
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  13. FCPete
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    FCPete Slowly getting better

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    I had a 99 V6 2.5 TDi A6 with 200,000 miles on that did all this.

    First thing was checking all the breathers, that made it a bit better but still not right. Next was the turbo, that was ok, then the intercooler, then the injectors, and the pump, and the fuel pump, and the fly-by-wire throttle, and the throttle pedal. No codes listed so it was old fashioned faffing about.

    Clutch needed doing anyway so that was done, the DMF was fine so didn't change that - at 200k miles it wasn't cost effective to throw a flywheel on if it didn't absolutely need it, and it turned out to be fine.

    Eventually we traced it to the air flow meter wiring. Sorted that, gave it an oil change and it's still running fine at 260k (It has been serviced regularly since, but it's not had any major problems other than a cv joint)
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  14. technics100
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    technics100 Member

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    Could it be the injector wiring harness? I had a similar misfire / hesitation on my 1.9 Tdi, I removed the harness and squeezed the connections together and refitted, sorted the problem.. never had any vag-codes with it either. I know several people have had similar problems.. a harness is about £40 and DIY change job..
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  15. robbie.kk
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    robbie.kk New Member

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    Dealer is now has diagnosed the problem as the Dual Mass Flywheel. The work is being carried on Tuesday at a cost of £1300.

    Fingers crossed???
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  16. robbie.kk
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    robbie.kk New Member

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    Dual Mass Flywheel replaced and it's made no difference. Although the dealer insisted it needed replacing?

    Back to dealer and they now think it's a faulty injector (which have been cleaned). Previous owner may put petrol in the car?

    What do I do about of money I've spent?:keule:

    Dealer said there will be a cost to get the injector tested???????????:uhm:
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2009
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  17. elan2s
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    elan2s Member

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    Have you looked at this page http://www.autotrader.co.uk/CARS/buying/your_legal_rights.jsp on the Auto Trader website. The key pieces are:

    If your car is faulty, you have six months from the date of purchase in which you can reject it. You can demand repair or a replacement, unless it would cause 'disproportionate' or 'significant inconvenience' to the seller.

    and

    Dealers must now prove the vehicle was of satisfactory quality when it was sold.

    My take on all of this is the supplying dealer cannot just walk away from the problem. Also did they not include a warranty with the car when they sold it to you?

    A trip to your local Citizens Advise Bureau might be in order to see what your legal position is with regard to the car and the money you have spent trying to sort out the problem.
    #17
  18. amimmortal
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    amimmortal Member

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    Irrespective of whether a warranty was provided, you have statutory rights in all cases. Recent test cases brought to court where either a warranty had expired, or no such warranty was in place, still found in favour of the claimant because it was not "unreasonable" to expect the goods (in this case a car) to be free from serious defect. For an Audi (an executive "premium" marque) the argument is easer, because the expectation is higher...

    Of course it depends on how old it is, and how well maintained it was (if it was an approved car from an audi dealer you'll have a warranty, if you bought an unapproved car from an audi dealer you'll only have limited rights)

    You should be able to argue that you are not fully liable for costs incurred due to misdiagnosis. I forced a VW dealer to knock 8 hours labour off a worksheet because they basically made an arse of the diagnosis (My golf Mk1 was having problems with hunting - they had the carburettor off, mucked around with all sorts of stuff and it turned out to be a faulty ingnition switch. I only paid for the switch and the related labour by the end of it, instead of the hundreds of pounds they wanted to charge for the "diagnosis"...

    Keep fighting and don't be fobbed off by BS!

    A.
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  19. Cockney Boy
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    Cockney Boy Member

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    First of all, you need to get your hands on the Fly Wheel, and get it indipendantly checked. Second, if you paid the bill with a credit Card, contact them and get them to refund the money, then it can be sorted out in a civil court if nessesary. You are still within your consumer rights, and remember to quote the "Bill of sale act".

    #19
  20. Flying Spanner
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    Flying Spanner Member

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    Hi, this sounds like a problem with your EGR valve. It can stick allowing too much exhaust gas back into the inlet manifold. It won't always show as a fault in the ecu. As it gets worse, you will have difficulty starting along with your other problems. Ask them to check the specified vers actual figs in measured value blocks. Idle should be around 320, but will poss be showing 500 plus.
    #20
  21. Flying Spanner
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    Flying Spanner Member

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    If the intercooler goes on a 2.0 TDi 4F you can always easily tell by shining a bright torch right down at the rear of the nearside headlamp. Look for any cracks along the ally strip running along the base of the intercooler. These very often crack allowing the air pressure to escape from the seal between the plastic cap and core of the cooler. If you see cracking, it will only get worse, eventually you will feel loss of power, hissing then a warning lamp logging boost lower limit not reached.
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  22. S3KO4
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    S3KO4 Member

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    sounds like the MAF
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  23. robbie.kk
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    robbie.kk New Member

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    Hi Guys,

    This draws to a close. I returned the car on the 5th October.

    The Master Technician called and told me he was convinced it was a EGR fault and he was waiting for an CD update from Audi. The update arrived on Tuesday and you guessed it! It didn't cure the fault.

    Plan B - remove the injectors and send them for testing (they were cleaned 3 months ago).

    On Thursday, I received conformation that one of the injectors was faulty. I agreed for it to be replaced at a reduced cost of £365. I was not changed for removal and testing. I have now spent nearly £2,000.

    The Garage are fitted the injector Friday and they plan to keep the car for a further 3 days in order to carry out a comprehensive road test.

    My next port of call is to initiate court proceedings against the Garage, I purchased the car from.

    He has asked me for a copy of the invoices in order to consult with his insurers? I think he thought I had not carried out any work on the vehicle?
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2009
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  24. robbie.kk
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    robbie.kk New Member

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    It gets worse !!

    Picked the car and paid £365 - drove it home and it's still the same in fact it might be worse! Car goes back on the 26th for the 6th time!

    I will be contacting Audi UK when the car is in situ unless anyone else has any advice?
    #24
  25. m0cea
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    m0cea New Member

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    I'm realy surprised that the MAF doesn't seem to have been swapped.
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  26. The Slug
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    The Slug Active Member

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    any fault codes?
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