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This Goverment.....

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by voorhees, Oct 10, 2008.

  1. voorhees
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    voorhees Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 10, 2008]
    Is this correct..earlier this year the Bank of England lowered the interest rate but the banks didn't pass it on to their lenders,now months on the Goverment is bailing them out with our money?
    #1
  2. FactionOne
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    FactionOne Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    [Oct 10, 2008]
    I guess we're stuck between a rock and hard place really mate...

    The thing is, yes the Banks all share some responsibility in the problems we're currently having, but a large chunk of the damage incurred to the global financial system has been caused by our friends over the pond and all the sub-prime mortgage lending they did. Obviously a few banks/building societies over here can be blamed for the same antics (Northern Rock and Bradford & Bingley I guess are the biggest culprits); but that has a massive knock-on effect globally.

    So while the Banks have made errors in judgement and practice to start the ball towards recession rolling, everyman is the one who stands to feel the full force of the effects. If it's all left unchecked, Banks can collapse and people will lose savings, mortgages etc; and when that starts to happen to a percentage of the populous, there are further knock-on effects to the remainder when the other Banks get more edgy, pushing up rates, shying away from lending, and trying harder to reign-in their debtors. In short, everyone will feel the pinch.

    The only other option then is for the Governments to step in and try to inject additional funding into the markets to 'grease the cogs' and get them moving more freely; hopefully the effect of that is borrowing for the man on the street is more possible/less expensive; and life goes on.

    Of course the latter means that the public-coffers are still hit for the cost, but potentially less than if the downturn was left to its own devices (as in the former). I guess the main thing that has to happen is tight conditions have to be attached to the lending that the Governments provide, to (hopefully) prevent further errors making the additional funds void of any positive effect...

    Regards,

    Rob.
    #2
  3. Just Plain Old
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    Just Plain Old Active Member

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    [Oct 10, 2008]
    Interesting times lie ahead.......!!

    I read somewhere that the total bail-out could amount to the equivalant of £16,000 per person? Now, if the Government were to give each of us that £16,000,, then we could all spend our way out of the ****, instead of pouring it into the coffers of those who f*ucked it up in the first place.........?

    Never happen, but a nice thought.
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  4. james0808
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    james0808 Active Member

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    [Oct 10, 2008]
    Seems weird to borrow the banks tax payers money,so they can borrow it to tax payers and make a profit off us.
    #4
  5. Caesium
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    Caesium My BM is fixed!

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    [Oct 10, 2008]
    i like the way there is a public consultation when our tax money is at stake.
    #5
  6. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 10, 2008]
    Just like the Falklands but a whole lot cheaper. Don't believe we were consulted on that job saving exercise for dear old Maggie either. Wake up people!
    #6
  7. HTC
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    [Oct 10, 2008]
    I agree with FactionOne. Government is left with adding cash so the Banks feel more confident lending to each other. When the rates between them go up the smaller banks start to struggle and can fold, making things worse. The oil is required at the moment.

    Personally I've already started working abroad. Just working out which country I want to move to now. Any recomendations?
    #7
  8. Caesium
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    Caesium My BM is fixed!

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    [Oct 10, 2008]
    monaco!
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  9. HTC
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    [Oct 10, 2008]
    Tax free for sure, but I'm looking for cheaper cost of living too.
    #9
  10. voorhees
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    voorhees Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 10, 2008]
    asian countries are top of the pile
    but if your able to have a 'career' then you must know this already as your clever.
    #10
  11. HTC
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    [Oct 10, 2008]
    Working on oil fields at the mo on rotation. They fly me to where ever up to the amount it costs to get to the UK at the moment. A couple of guys are saying thailand is good. I'm going to head there on one of my breaks and check it out. Problem is I like messing with cars too, so it's needs to be a place where I can do that. Will be opting out of UK tax at the beginning of the financial year so that will put extra in my pocket. I might put up with a higher cost of living so I can have my toys still :)
    #11
  12. TFSI
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    TFSI Born to Fish

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    [Oct 10, 2008]
    I'm going to be selfish here and say i dont give a chuff what happens. My parents told me to not get anything until i could afford it and thats how i live my life.
    If the rest of this god forsaken world had lived liked that it would definately not be in the **** it is now.

    Everybody wants everything NOW and is not prepared to wait a while.

    SO BOLL*CKS TO IT ALL ! I DONT GIVE A CHUFF
    #12
  13. fingermouse
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    fingermouse thats me

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    [Oct 10, 2008]
    LOL I feel the same a little as my morgage has 8 years left fixed at 5% so sod it lol
    #13
  14. auditek
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    auditek Member

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    [Oct 10, 2008]
    yip its afair mess, im outa work nxt friday, joiner work dried up, nae savings, 1000 pm motrgage, fuk it what can you do, just have to find some **** job at a fiver an hour, sell all my gear and get wrecked every weekend to block it out for a wee while, aaaahhhhhhhhhh life goes on i have my health, so far ?:keule:
    #14
  15. TFSI
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    TFSI Born to Fish

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    [Oct 10, 2008]
    If you have your health you have everything.
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  16. HTC
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    [Oct 11, 2008]
    I agree with the too much credit now. Credit can be a handy tool, but banks should not allow people who can't afford it to borrow. Also they shouldn't up limits for people already maxed on their cards just so the bank can make more in interest out of them.

    I too have always saved up for everything I've bought with the exception of my property. Property has to be linked to credit.

    I cringe at all these people so far in debt buying the next best electrical equipment, cars and lifestyle just to keep up with the Jones. Sad and shallow in my book.

    But be careful, and don't bury your head in the sand. How are your savings for the future with regards to pension funds etc. This is linked to the economy also.

    Auditek, sorry to hear that, hope it all works out for you.
    #16
  17. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 11, 2008]
    Couldn't have said it better myself
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  18. HTC
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    [Oct 11, 2008]
    So you lot don't care when prices go up? You don't care about people who though no fault of their own are facing poverty, unemployment etc.
    I'm sure you'd have something to say if your buisiness failed.

    Great attitute, but that's okay because someone else will deal with it.
    #18
  19. motorbikez
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    motorbikez Active Member

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    [Oct 11, 2008]
    The goverment is not blameless in this f--k up they have learned nothing since BCCI collapsed in 1991 we have toothless policing of the financial system allowed by a useless government.Who have until recently stoked the boom by incouraging irresponsible lending by the banks.During the good times of the last 10 years the government has put nothing aside for hard times and pissed every penny up the wall.

    Although the tax payer MAY and I stress MAY come out of this not quite as bad as some financial pundits would suggest.
    Heres why IMHO if the government are taking large equity stakes in the banks (how much nobody knows yet) they are buying in at a very low level and when this crisis blows over my guess would be end of 2010 they would be able to sell part of the stakes taken at a large profit which could bail the tax payer out of the **** to some extent.
    #19
  20. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 11, 2008]
    Yes that's exactly what we said. **** 'em
    What we actually said was people need to take responsibility for their own finances. If they've been prudent rather than irresponsible with their borrowing then the current situation will have little effect on their finances. Unemployment is a fact of life, suck it up. Their are no jobs for life anymore and haven't been for some time.
    Personally I'm sick and tired of hearing the sensationalised credit crunch **** on the news. I bought my first house back in 1987 so have experienced 14% interest rates. Luckily I only had a relatively small mortgage and a £500 Golf as no way did I want to max out everything just to buy a house and just took in a lodger to help with the payments. People today have to have the flash car and the flash pad along with all the flash kit & furniture that goes with it and they want it all now. Sorry it doesn't work that way.
    No surprise now that some people are struggling with a shedload of debt which isn't gonna go away in a hurry.
    #20
  21. HTC
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    [Oct 11, 2008]
    I agree with that, for sure. I think we are all a to blame. Government blindfolded, banks greedy, people naive. Yeah jobs come and go, but there are long term careers, they do exist.

    People don't care about what happend in the past or what can happen. Many seem to live for the now. Material possessions seem to top the list too. Ahh well. I got out when I could.

    I do feel sorry for people who want to save up for a place but can't get near acheiving one.

    Did you hear about those councils that invested their budgets into Icelandic banks which are in trouble? They followed government advise, but now want the same security public receive for individual savings. Oopsy.
    #21
  22. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 11, 2008]
    What happened to saving up for stuff? That was how I was brought up. I saved for 5 years to put a deposit on my first house, no one seems to be bothered doing that these days and just moan that they can't afford to get on the property ladder, certainly not while paying off or financing a brand new S3 or the like. It's so unfair!
    The current "want it now" culture is a recipe for disaster which is now kicking in and I have little sympathy for this irresponsible behaviour of the last 5-10 years and that includes the banks, gov't etc but ultimately it's the individuals who have to take responsibility for their own stupid decisions rather than blaming everyone else. "Oh they make it too easy to get credit" "they keep extending my limit". Whine whine whine, Pathetic. These people need to grow up and stop looking for a scapegoat when it's mainly themselves that have created the situation. Not always the case I know but there's a helluva lot of it out there.
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  23. HTC
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    [Oct 11, 2008]
    I'm with you. I saved up for my deposit. Lived at my then girlfriends parents house for ages.
    I feel sorry for the those who do try their hardest but the goal posts keep moving. I don't feel sorry for people who just expect to get what they want without planning. I guess the current situation might teach certain people a lesson, but I doubt it will last for long.
    #23
  24. motorbikez
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    motorbikez Active Member

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    [Oct 11, 2008]
    Not often I agree with andymac but I was brought up the same way I put down a 30% deposit on the first house I bought by grafting 7 days a week for 3 years unheard of now,but maybe this financial meltdown will concentrate peoples minds again and become more financially aware and disciplined.Like other people on here I always pay cash for my toys(cars motorbikes) if I can't I do without.

    There is one thing you can rely on in this country the GOVERNMENT will shaft you so think carefully before you take any advise from them.
    #24
  25. voorhees
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    voorhees Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 11, 2008]
    Andy has a lot of good points which we can relate to but someone buying a house in the last ten years will know that saving will be overtaken by rise in houseprices so its useless,me personally if I was a young un I would rent
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  26. motorbikez
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    motorbikez Active Member

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    [Oct 12, 2008]
    Now would be precisely the right time to be saving for a property as prices have already fallen by 13% this year and are likely to continue falling until this mess is sorted out.
    Any youngster living at home has an opportunity to save for a deposit without house prices running away from them.
    In this new climate of forced prudence and financial sobriety you will need at least a 10% deposit to get through the bank managers door and rightly so IMHO.
    #26
  27. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Oct 12, 2008]
    Not round here they haven't!
    House prices are steady...just taking longer to sell.

    But in general, still a good time to look at buying I'd say.
    If you can afford it now, you'll be fine in the future.


    I agree...

    I also think people are their own worst enemy...
    "I can get a mortgage for 5 times my salary plus £30k on top at mortgage rate (Northern Rock)...so I will spend the lot"
    Fine at 5% interest.

    Now it's gone up and they've had to find £200-300 extra per month...oh dear.
    Repossetion time...because stupidly they also bought this months latest fashion accessory blinged-up nbeighbour impressing Audi and 50" flat panel telly...also all on credit.

    Ee-ore!
    Silly people...

    If you can't absorb a few hundred quid a month rise in your mortgage, you are stupid, in my view...and if you couldn't see interest rates rising from the 5% times of old, you are naive. And stupid.

    It's not pleasant...but it'll be a lesson some don't forget in a hurry.
    #27
  28. Khufu
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    Khufu Well-Known Member

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    [Oct 12, 2008]
    Like mine did!

    I watched the news yesterday and they claimed that excluding morgages the average houshold owes £9700 in debt!!! I assume a lot of that must be for a car. Personally I owe nothing at all, paid cash for my A3 having saved for it as I did for the A3 I had before that. The younger generation have been brought up in this never never land of credit!
    #28
  29. motorbikez
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    motorbikez Active Member

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    [Oct 12, 2008]
    Regarding my previous post no 19 the government is (you and I the taxpayer) are bailing out HBOS and RBS according to todays sunday times by aquiring a 70% in HBOS and a 50% stake in RBS so there is some possibilty of us getting some payback in the future as the goverment are buying into these banks at distress levels.

    So hopefully when this crisis blows over the government of the day will sell these stakes for a handsome profit and instead of pissing the billions of pounds they get up the wall they will pay down some of the debt they have accrued on behalf of the taxpayers.
    #29
  30. HTC
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    [Oct 12, 2008]
    I have no debt and it shocks me how much people can borrow. I saw a program about a guy who was in £100000 of personal debt, no lie. "It's okay" he said, "I'll just declare myself backrupt and they'll wipe most of my debt off". He just didn't seem to care. Make's me mad.

    I hear in some areas 10% deposit isn't enough anymore. People with good jobs think they have enough and want to buy now, but the banks won't lean due to the market uncertanty and then the people have to save more. At least that's how I understand it.
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  31. motorbikez
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    motorbikez Active Member

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    [Oct 12, 2008]
    Yes people think its OK to go bankrupt but it is an easy way out of reckless self indulgence, however there is some downside to doing that even before todays changed finacial climate bankrupts can forget getting a mortgage again or any form of HP of loan basically they are screwed.They are barred from certain jobs(funnily enough an MP) and do you think any lending institution will touch them with a bargepole they will have to save for things or do without.
    #31
  32. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Oct 12, 2008]
    ...and it's never their fault.

    Not their fault they have 20 credit cards with £20k limits...not their fault they were never going to be able to even meet the minimum payments...always somebody elses fault for 'letting them' get another card.
    Pathetic.
    #32
  33. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Oct 12, 2008]
    True...
    My mortgage just came off a fixed rate (and went up quite a lot...no surprise there) and the lad commented that they'd no longer lend me the money to buy the house I'm in - I think you'd need a 20% deposit or similar for a £250k upwards mortgage now.

    Changing times indeed...
    #33
  34. motorbikez
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    motorbikez Active Member

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    [Oct 12, 2008]
    Absolutely agree Govenments mentality is the same blame America or europe or whoever for the credit crunch not our fault, if Mr prudence brown had actually been prudent with our cash when he was getting record tax takes he could have helped the man in the street.By cutting fuel duty or/and abolishing VAT on gas and electric bills to help people who are struggling.Unfortunately because the government have pissed every penny up the wall and borrowed more on top they can do nothing.

    Only plus point as I said previously we may get some cash back in the future when government sells stakes they have aquired on our behalf in the banks.
    Will the government have learned a lesson I hope so but somehow I doubt it.
    #34
  35. HTC
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    [Oct 12, 2008]
    That's awful. I take it you found another lender that would take you on?

    I've been making as many overpayments as I can in the hope that this won't happen to me when I come to remortgage (2 years time).
    #35
  36. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Oct 12, 2008]
    No, no...they were happy for me to keep paying, and I got a reasonable fixed rate deal, but just out of interest, he commented that if I were looking now, they wouldn't lend me the money to buy the house.
    #36
  37. fingermouse
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    fingermouse thats me

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    [Oct 12, 2008]
    but thats been one of the main problems they should always make people have 5 or 10 % deposit for the house they want. They also should stick with the old ways of 3.5 times your yearly wage.
    #37
  38. StrmsekS3
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    StrmsekS3 Member

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    [Oct 12, 2008]
    i aggree its awful the debt some ppl are willing too get into!! for things they dont even NEED, i saved and bought my S3 no borrowing etc! my friend went and bought a bmw 330 clubsport nice motor but i asked him how much it was he says 15,000 i said bet you were saving for a while for that his reply no 100 down rest on finance!! **** why!! but im scared of debt mabye a good thing!!

    another friend has just bought a house but was refused a morgage but got his mum to get one but he has too pay it all just in her name his wages a mnth are less than the morgatage repayment so has 2 mates living with him! to pay it and thats giving him 400 quid exta after morgagtage and still food, drink elec etc!! i can see he mite have a problem in future

    too me if the bank refuse you cant afford it!!

    my gf always says why cant we get one of those etc ill say cos i cant afford it she says but they earn less than we do, but she dosent realise they have borrowed money!!

    iam nt a fan of borrowing can you tell!!
    #38
  39. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 13, 2008]
    Like many on here I'm **** scared of debt as I've seen what it can do to people. Apart from what's left on our Virgin One mortgage I owe nothing to no one. Even with the mortgage we have overpaid massively and that will be paid off in the next year. A friend of ours is about to go personally bankrupt, bought a house 2 years ago, cannot afford the repayments now his fixed rate has ended, spent a small fortune on all the toys for the place and cannot sell. Take in a lodger? No he doesn't want to do that, WTF?
    When I bought my first house all the kit in it was borrowed or handmedowns, I had the sofa that came with the house for 4 years, took 10 years before I actually had some nice stuff. I just don't get it with the "must have the latest toys" mentality of today, it's really scary.
    As for saving being outpaced by house prices, this has been the case, but not at the moment. If you'd bought a place a year ago at the top of the market you'd be screwed, as opposed to saving for a deposit a year ago, now you'd be laughing.
    Ultimately gambling on the stock exchange and/or high interest offshore savings etc is just that, gambling. It's the respectable face of gambling, but it's gambling nonetheless. Doubt the gov't would bail you out if you lost your savings in Vegas, I don't see that's any different than the greed that drives investing in high interest savings schemes.
    #39
  40. Geordie Mike
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    Geordie Mike Yeee-haw

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    [Oct 13, 2008]
    Debt is a way of life though. Try going to university and not coming out with at least £10k of debt. I had 3 jobs while I was at university to try to keep my head within sight of the surface, an entry level graduate job in the oil industry and it still took me about 2 years to clear the university debt, nevermind the student loans. During that time I needed to get a car, so I got a loan - after all I was used to being in debt and made sure I could afford the repayments.

    Being completely scared of debt is OK, but it will hold you back from some things. If you're OK with that then fine. Obviously all in moderation. It seems that the biggest problem has been with the banks, where moderation went out the window years ago. The problem was if it was a banks policy to be more prudent etc., they miss out. All the other banks are making more money, shareholders were happy, those were the top performing banks. The same thing happened with the dot-com bubble. Some of the companies knew there was nothing there, but as long as they could buy and then sell in a profit to someone else, they made money. As long as you weren't the ones left holding the shares it was OK. That's the way the world works, sadly. Screw someone over and make a lot of money and it's all OK.
    #40

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