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The Woes of the Rear Electric Window Retrofit!

Discussion in 'A4/A4 cabriolet/S4 forum(B6 chassis)' started by Dan TheMan Welburn, Oct 25, 2012.

  1. Dan TheMan Welburn
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    Dan TheMan Welburn Member

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    [Oct 25, 2012]
    Sooo, i got round to starting my rear electric window retrofit today, everything slots in and plugs in fine, BUT......

    First of all i thought i had no power to rear door, but then i turned my radio on and speaker works as it should, soooo i now have the issues of door lock not working and no power to window switch/motor, and i have a suspicion that the difference in the wiring to the plug ie, new loom only having 8 wires to the plug and old one having 10, has a fair bit to do with it.

    Shame no ones done it before as there would be a guide lol, but heyho i have a mate due round any day to look at the wiring, and see if he can get power to the lock and the motor/switch as there should be!
    #1
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  3. Dan TheMan Welburn
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    Dan TheMan Welburn Member

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    [Oct 26, 2012]
    Seems im missing the doorcard wiring for the switch and tweeter, so im again at a standstill, but surely that would stop the doorlock getting power?
    #2
  4. rakz
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    rakz New Member

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    [Mar 23, 2013]
    Hi, did you find a solution? I did this retrofit too and don`t have power to window motors, doorlock and door lights, although speakers work fine. I used door wiring from a donor car.
    #3
  5. Dan TheMan Welburn
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    Dan TheMan Welburn Member

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    [Mar 23, 2013]
    Hi there mine is the same and has been for some time now, a local mechanic has told me that the CCM has to be coded so it knows that it is now a car with 4 electric windows instead of 2 but im a novice with VCDS and don't have a clue how to do it, hes recommended me to go see a auto electrician local but not had the cash to pay anyone to do it as of yet, but I will get round to it in the coming weeks
    #4
  6. archemist
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    archemist Member VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 24, 2013]
    Dan - think its the adaptation section of CCM you need to code if yours came with manual RW - channel 61?

    Audi A4 (8E) Comfort System - Ross-Tech Wiki

    hope u get it sorted :)
    And
    #5
  7. Dan TheMan Welburn
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    Dan TheMan Welburn Member

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    [Jun 19, 2013]
    After house move and countless other things finally getting on with my b6..... this retrofit needs finishing, going by the wiki page I go into central convenience and adaptation and channel 061. when I do this I get a value of 3, and I am unable to change, I might be missing something obvious here but being a vcds novice I don't know what.......

    any suggestions,
    #6
  8. Mike.M
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    Mike.M Well-Known Member

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    [Jun 20, 2013]
    Have you got the full (paid for) VCDS or the lite (free) version?
    #7
  9. Dan TheMan Welburn
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    Dan TheMan Welburn Member

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    [Jun 20, 2013]
    I have full vcds but no matter how I adjust the coding I cannot get power to my rear door locks or windows
    #8
  10. Mike.M
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    Mike.M Well-Known Member

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    [Jun 20, 2013]
    Are you adapting and then coding?
    #9
  11. Dan TheMan Welburn
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    Dan TheMan Welburn Member

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    [Jun 20, 2013]
    no as im unsure what im meant to be doing, and due to lack of information anywhere I cant find out exactly what im meant to be adapting,

    only thing ive tried is adjusting the coding "sum of all values" to without mechanical windows which I assume means manual? but as per my other post requesting info after consulting with a local vcds boffin he asked if there was a fuse for the rear windows, and altho the fusebox cover states fuse 24 is for rear door electrics, there is no fuse and no wiring, so im guessing there is a section of wiring loom that isn't present in the b6 se with manuals, so unless I can come up with any other things to try im hunting for a internal loom to take the extra bits from
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  12. Mike.M
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    Mike.M Well-Known Member

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    [Jun 20, 2013]
    That sound like your problem then...........no power.
    #11
  13. Dan TheMan Welburn
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    Dan TheMan Welburn Member

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    [Jun 20, 2013]
    that's the thing there is power to the speaker in the doors but not the locks
    #12
  14. choimaloy
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    choimaloy Member

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    [Jun 20, 2013]
    The rear door looms on electric windows have 2 extra wires compared to the mechanical rear door looms,so you have to change the looms that are in the B-pillar that I think lead to the convenience module under the passenger seat.
    #13
  15. docurley
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    docurley Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jun 21, 2013]
    Audi are tight they tend not to run wires if they are not needed so the loom from the pillar may need changing or additional wires run through the car.

    Normally I would look at the US guys for help but they get electric windows front and rear as standard.
    #14
  16. Dan TheMan Welburn
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    Dan TheMan Welburn Member

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    [Jun 27, 2013]
    Well i have had an auto electrician out today to have a quick look and he tried running a power feed into the door loom and got nothing soooooo..... its looking like i am going to have to get a interior loom from a car with rear electric windows to be able to see exactly whats missing.. and then either fit it into my car or patch in whats needed,

    I WILL FINISH THIS RETROFIT IF IT KILLS ME!! looking like it might at this rate haha!
    #15
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  17. Mike.M
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    Mike.M Well-Known Member

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    [Jun 27, 2013]
    Keep us posted if you still live :)
    #16
  18. Google44
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    Google44 Member

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    [Sep 19, 2013]
    Hi

    i appologise for bringing this one up again. I've got rear electric windows, cards looms and motors donated and would like to retrofit. So far not found anyone suggesting how to do it. I've tried connecting loom with motor and switch directly to door pillar. As you may guess it did not work. Looks like CCM or something needs to be reprogrammed.

    Any suggestions here would be welcomed.
    #17
  19. BlackQuat
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    BlackQuat Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 19, 2013]
    You need to confirm your CCM will actually take rear electric windows. Simply putting in power won't be enough. You'll need power and the ccm coding for rear electrics. You may have the wrong ccm. If your car will not take the coding required, this may be your issue. I spent ages scratching my head over my alarm and why it wouldn't code in. Someone had fitted a K one.

    Below is the list of CCM's available. You may need one in bold.

    8E0 959 433 J - 433MHz, lighting package over the legs, crank
    8E0 959 433 K - 433 MHz, power windows at the back (or crank).
    8E0 959 433 L - 433MHz, leg space lighting package, rear power windows
    8E0 959 433 N
    8E0 959 433 Q
    8E0 959 433 R
    8E0 959 433 S
    8E0 959 433 T
    8E0 959 433 AA
    8E0 959 433 AB - factory alarm, 433MHz, rear power windows
    8E0 959 433 AC - factory alarm, 433MHz, rear power windows
    8E0 959 433 AD - 433 MHz, power windows at the back (or crank).
    8E0 959 433 AE - 433MHz, rear power windows
    8E0 959 433 AF - 433MHz, leg space lighting package, power windows in the rear.
    8E0 959 433 AG
    8E0 959 433 AH - factory alarm, 433MHz, leg space lighting package, power windows in the rear.
    8E0 959 433 AJ - factory alarm, 433MHz, leg space lighting package, rear power windows (or crank).
    8E0 959 433 AK - factory alarm, 433MHz, leg space lighting package, rear power windows
    8E0 959 433 AL - factory alarm, 433MHz, crank
    8E0 959 433 AM - 433 MHz, packet feet of space lighting, crank
    8E0 959 433 AN
    8E0 959 433 AP - 433MHz, rear power windows
    8E0 959 433 AQ - 433MHz, crank
    #18
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  20. Google44
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    Google44 Member

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    [Sep 19, 2013]
    Thanks for reply. I will stick VCDS tomorrow and check what my CCM is. However, I've got CCM donated from donor car as well. this may help.
    #19
  21. BlackQuat
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    BlackQuat Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 20, 2013]
    If you swap over the ccm you will need to sync your remotes. It's an easy task if you follow the rosstech wiki page.
    If you get stuck. PM me I'll give you my mobile number and I'll try and run you through it on the phone.
    #20
  22. Google44
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    Google44 Member

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    [Sep 20, 2013]
    Thanks. Would like to re-use mine first to avoid any other failures. Will check if the version first. I take it you got it working now?
    #21
  23. BlackQuat
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    BlackQuat Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 20, 2013]
    Yeh, my problem is all sorted.
    #22
  24. Google44
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    Google44 Member

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    [Sep 20, 2013]
    Mine is 8E0 959 433 BD. Does it mean anything? Also, channel 61 claimed value of 3 - mechanical rear windows (1) and fotwell light (2). I've changed it to 2 now - only the light. Can you remember if anything else is needed or if I needed to to this at all?

    Thanks
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2013
    #23
  25. Google44
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    Google44 Member

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    [Sep 20, 2013]
    If left as 2 the rear door lock does not work. Put it back to 3 now until I can try donor's door loom.
    #24
  26. BlackQuat
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    BlackQuat Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 22, 2013]
    8E0 959 433 BD - factory alarm, 433MHz, leg space lighting package, rear power windows (or crank).

    So it's good for electric windows.
    #25
  27. Google44
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    Google44 Member

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    [Sep 23, 2013]
    Thanks BlackQuat for help


    Where am I going wrong then? Like mentioned in previous post I've connected complete loom to B post with motor, door lock and door card with switch. It does not work. I would very much apprichiate your help here. If it goes well I will do a write up on it.
    #26
  28. BlackQuat
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    BlackQuat Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 23, 2013]
    Ok, So rear doors are coded. All the internals from the donor car are put in.
    If there is a issue, you should now have a fault code stored.
    You said the Auto electrician fitted 12v to the rear doors for the windows. Where did he get this feed from? Did he leave it in? Was it just a temp one?

    Where abouts are you based?
    #27
  29. Google44
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    Google44 Member

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    [Sep 23, 2013]
    Since I've found no guide for definet how to do it I've done only the following:


    1. Disconnect driver side B pillar rear door connector and plugged donor car rear electri loom with motor, locks and switch on it.
    It was not fitted in door as I did not want to commit to fitting unless it works first. No additional work was carried out on vehicle electric by anyone.

    2. I've played with 061 settings from value 3 to value 2. DId not plugged in donor's CCM


    Does it mean I have to bring the feed of 12V to door pillar first? Guess I can check if it is pressent as there is 2 very thick wires on the top. They must be supply then.
    #28
  30. Silky
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    Silky Member

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    [Sep 23, 2013]
    Did many of the cars come with Electric Rear Windows as standard or was it an optional extra that many people just didn't bother with, I mean is it rare?
    #29
  31. Google44
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    Google44 Member

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    [Sep 23, 2013]
    Not sure about options. However, the donor car was 2001 1.8 T sport.


    Looking at schematics looks like no go. The electric lifters work via CAN lines (2 of), plus one for CCM and 2 power lines where one is feed and the other one a relay. Hope BlackQuat can confirm this.




    The mechanical has more lines, however they are not CAN but straight outputs from CCM to control individual item (e.g.door lock).


    The electric lifter has less lines - 5 as oposite to mechanical 6. El. rear are controlled over CAN controller which is built in el. motor module.

    BTW my location is Derby
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2013
    #30
  32. BlackQuat
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    BlackQuat Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 24, 2013]
    Hi Google,
    So long as you know I'm working blind. I haven't undertaken this task my self. I've just had it in bits alot recently. On wednesday I'll have my rear door in bits and i'll try and get the wiring out of the B post to photo for you.
    Have you had chance to confirm there is 12v to the door yet?
    You mentioned that you don't have a fuse in place for rear electric windows. It might be worth thinking about running a 12v from the fuse box to the doors.
    If you've posted a schematic, I'll look when home tonight. Work pc does'nt show many pictures unfortunately.
    #31
  33. Google44
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    Google44 Member

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    [Sep 24, 2013]
    I've PMed you schematics as it does not fit here. DId you have to run any additional wiring from CCM. Also, did you have to replace/reprogram CCM? If motors are controlled via CAN then it must have CAN address meaning that something somewhere needs to know about rear motor existance. They could also do it so that rear left motor has fixed address, always the same.
    #32
  34. Dan TheMan Welburn
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    Dan TheMan Welburn Member

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    [Jan 8, 2014]
    First time I've read this thread in a while I'm about to take on a major job in order to get this working, I have purchased a complete interior wiring loom from a car with all the extras including rear electric windows, I plan to transplant the full loom into my SE I was changing the carpet anyway so might as well go hung ho, sick of having no power to rear door locks more than anything

    Will update with my findings
    #33
  35. Google44
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    Google44 Member

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    [Jan 8, 2014]

    I would be very interested to see how you getting on and what work you needed to do to get it going. I've put my 'rear electric for sale' now as I could not do it. If it turns to be easier then I may consider it again.
    #34
  36. Dan TheMan Welburn
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    Dan TheMan Welburn Member

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    [Feb 11, 2014]
    Just cross referencing my CCM on that list and its not among the numbers. Mine is 8E0 959 433 BD

    Anyone know if this may infact support rear windows or not?
    #35
  37. Dan TheMan Welburn
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    Dan TheMan Welburn Member

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    [Feb 11, 2014]
    Just read one of you guys has same and youve confirmed its good for rear windows so ill crack on and get this finished this week....
    #36
  38. Google44
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    Google44 Member

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    [Feb 11, 2014]
    it would be nice for once to have a guide on how to do it. Thanks
    #37
  39. Google44
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    Google44 Member

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    [Mar 4, 2014]
    Did you manage to fit them?
    #38

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