Sep 14, 2009
No problem. :thumbsup:
Looks a lot better than just the letters now - prefer the logo's
I second that :icon_thumright:
I don't think the prefixes are strictly necessary
I think that might have been discussed though
Nice logos, must say :thumbsup:
...So they're optional now :icon_thumright:
I do like the logos, but dont take this personally rob & I hate to say it but I think we're getting away from the actual point of them, its all very well changing a logo & this pleases alot of people which dont know what to make of that tbh, lol, but the overall point is usefulness, pretty pictures might be enough for some, but its a car forum so they need to be useful not just an aesthetic change, if members wanted to look at nice pictures then go to the Louvre, lol.
I do however like the fact you have made them optional & I honestly think this should stay for a short period, as this which will also show if anyone really does use them, cause if not then they really are pointless.
For me splitting into S3 & A3 doesnt really do anything apart from create a sub class as such & as I said before seems rather selfish & not in every 8P users best interests, seems to be more for someone who has an S3 which is why I did say it wasnt really thought out well.
I would personally split it down to a number of prefixes, eg:
Also make them optional permanently aswell, so you dont have to select one if they really dont want to, no it doesnt defeat the object of having them if they're optional, it just apeases everyone who like & those who dont like, surely thats middle of the road then they cant really whinge if they arent forced into using them.
Obviously I havnt listed every engine, but think you get the idea & if they're not useful then I give up, cause at least this is actually definitive of what people are actually posting about, given there are people on this site that actually have knowledge in the specific category, so they would be more inclined to be interested in these areas & maybe be a specialist who can help, I have an interest in technology & electrics so I tend to be more interested in this area, even though I do other stuff with my car mechanical, but not everyone is interested in everything.
You wanted constructive, if thats not enough just say so, at least it gives ideas of how they could be trialled out, if you really want to enforce these upon the members.
Yep, I think this is a pretty good idea, no... a very good idea.
There are some that I would leave out, but definitely agree with most of the categories - see highlighted.
For me, the above would be a million times more useful than an A3/S3 split.
And in terms of searching it would make it A LOT easier to find stuff. Being able to isolate a search to just tyres/wheels/electrics/etc could potentially save searching through loads of thread results which have nothing whatsoever to do with what you are looking for.
Please seriously consider the above because on the face of it.... IMO it's a winner!
Also Rob, you could add an option in the search feature which actually allows you to see every thread/post in that set prefix, so you could ask to show all threads/posts for say prefix Wheels.
Think you get me.
And, Rob...I'd like an ice cream please.
If anyone can find Helvetica Medium Extended (or something very similar to it) for gratis/cheap, I'll make as many pretty icons as you like (it's the Audi 'normal' (and in fact Audi Sport) text). For the two so far I sat tracing bitmaps with a bezier to get vector graphics - that'll be a bit of a PITA to do for a lot more.
I looked at the option of making them post icons which have always been there, but you can't filter and search using those; so the prefix method is still preferred. Nigel, the options you mentioned to list only threads of a certain prefix, or search threads with a certain prefix is already there. If you scroll down to the bottom of the 8P index you'll see a display options pane where you can filter by prefix. Also in the 'search this forum' dialogue from the top of the index you should be able to limit by prefix.
...I wonder how many others didn't notice that (or indeed read in my initial announcement/guide of the prefix trial)... Perhaps people would've found it more useful from the off. Anyway, I'll look at getting some more icons drawn-up - but again, if anyone can find that font (or similar), a PM would be most appreciated.
Oh, and HBD - it's absolutely lashing it down and quite cold here at the moment, so I'll expect an ice cream van along any minute
Would you like a Flake aswell?
Yes please gents
I scream, you scream, etc
I think the point is being missed slightly.
Suggestion is.... Add the suggested prefixes (wheels/tyres/electrics/etc) and be able to search within them, rather than the A3/S3 prefixes.
Again not being funny, but would you bother to read it all, if you had that incarnation thrown in, to put it bluntly as we seem to be dancing around this thing stupidly & you want it to be constructive, its useless Rob, doesnt help anyone by having A3 & S3 solely, what exactly does it split up to make of use apart from people posting info relevant to many 8P lines/models, as the things mostly discussed as Mitch has pointed out, dont differentiate most of the models anyway which is why I suggested a better prefix split.
I didnt see the prefix search option Rob for one sole reason, I dont believe the incarnation of prefixes would be any use to me & the search facility isnt really that great, so didnt even bother to see if it existed in search facility, now I know its there & if you amend the prefixes to be of actual use then I will probably use this at some stage, but for me no point having the feature if it isnt more definitive of a subject on the 8P section.
AS much as its nice to have fancy logos, cant you just actually change the prefix system to better options as has been suggested, then if the system works then spend time on the logos, I dont think anyone's that stupid to think the system is any better just cause you change the A3 & S3 to a logo rather than text.
Also I think its clear to me this prefix system will be staying, no one with your proven methodology Rob, would spend this time on logos then scrap the whole thing later on, it would be a rather pointless exercise, surely test the system 1st get it working to a satisfactory state with the users, then start adding pretty things to make it nice on there eye, isnt this the most methodical & sensible approach, think atm its time wasted on something that could easily be put to more good on this prefix system, which overall could be ported to the other sections aswell, no?
OK, Perhaps I wasn't clear. I was saying I'm happy to add more prefixes (ie beyond A3/S3) as it seems people are keen to give it a go and confident it will add value. I also said that the index can be filtered using the controls at the bottom - so you could see only A3, only S3, or when there are new icons/prefixes set-up, Interiror, Exteriror, Electrical, Ice Cream etc. too. You can also search on the term "Cornetto" for example, but only within threads which are relevant to "Ice Cream" if you wish to narrow the search somewhat. Again, it's A3/S3 only at the moment, but that will change once I've set up the new prefixes suggested earlier...
Some of the things pointed out above are actually the things we have been discussing. Please keep the ideas coming though.
okey dokey, but can you advise which prefixes u plan to add please rather than just stick a load in, as this method has already proven to be no good, be nice to actually be asked if they are of use before setting up, maybe this was the way forward from the get.
Maybe start suggestions here.
I agree with:
I think A3/S3/FSi/TDi/DSG/etc can be accommodated in any of the above and therefore do not require their own prefix.
"Again not being funny" - I love it when people start with statements like that; it's like when people pipe up with something like "I don't mean to sound racist". The amusing bit is that the next word is INVARIABLY "but" - of course the definition of the word but (you're a tech guy, think about it as a NOT gate), means that what follows ALWAYS negates the opening statement (in my example, by saying something wholly racist). I guess it's just par for the course then, that you followed by coming in elbows first with the "would you bother to read it all" bit. There was a time I wouldn't have believed that I'd ask you to take a leaf out of aythreee's book, but here were are none the less. So, he raised the query pretty calmly, so he got a succinct but well-mannered response.
In this case, well, could you read it all (again) please?... I was suggesting that I'm happy to expand the prefixes as suggested, and then it'll be fully searchable based on the new, expanded set. I take your point that's perhaps why you didn't use it; but I think it was stilll valid to suggest that if others had made use of the search with S3 or 8P General as was, it might've been at least a little better received - I'd guess it'd be handy for some S3 folks at the very least. Hopefully the next implementation will be more useful for everyone.
You must get altitude sickness on that bloody soapbox of yours bud
Again, I said I'm happy to expand the system as suggested. I want to try with some icons as now the sizing is better, it seems there is a generally positive reaction to the change - people thinking it is cleaner and easier on the eye than having the text labels. It's not going to take me days to make a few icons - it probably won't be light-speed at the moment because I'm on my laptop in a car-park fielding work calls, but if I can get a little while at it, it's easy to sort out.
As regards testing first, hadn't you noticed that's exactly what's happening? We put the system in place (as you know), as 8P General and S3 Specific, and prefixes were required on new threads. When I put it live, I very deliberately noted that this was a trial. I let it run for a while to get a fair impression of how the basic system works, it was always going to be re-assessed and probably tweaked later (much as we'd like perfection at attempt number one it'd be rather vacuous to expect it). So, here we are making changes to see if value/functionality can be added.
I did a couple of icons last night, and made prefixes optional. The eye candy aspect didn't go completely unnoticed; but (again as above) a number of users have commented that the icons actually make the arrangement easier on the eye to the point of reducing or removing any negative aspects on presentation that running a prefix system might have. Along with my own impression of them, that makes (in my mind) a fairly decent case to keep with them as we continue tweaking other things. Similarly sized and designed icons would, as I'm sure any GUI designer would agree, most likely make a system with more prefix options as suggested earlier in the thread ergonomically easier for users too.
So I've waffled a bit more time away, but hopefully your mind is at rest that:
1) (Quickly/as schedule allows) Get some icons sorted out for the prefixes suggested on the thread
2) Upload icons, add prefixes to the set-up.
3) Continue the 'trial' - with prefixes optional, as I set last night.
Again, thanks aythreee for the constructive, helpful, well-mannered and bullshit-free response. And again, Nigel, mate - please compare the two replies above for the latter parameter
Just borrowed yours for a minute there rob, seems you've taken it back
But glad you taken my constructive comments (& critiscisms) onboard, there's always a 1st huh, lol
So long as you're happy thinking that, it'll do for me bud
That one leaves me somewhere between and
What I find pointless is that while the prefixes help categorise threads, they give no more info than the thread title anyway, so why bother?
OK, you can use it to filter the list, but if you're looking for something to do with a bumper, surely you'd just search for the word "bumper" rather than filter the list for "Exterior" and then look down that list for anything that looks like it might relate to a bumper.
As an initial idea, it was great as you're trying to make people's lives easier, but in practice, I really don't see any benefit. Sorry.
Thats about as good as it'll get anyway, so have to do for both of us
As someone said recently, there's always a place for a little bluntness
Do the site rules on swearing apply to us all then Rob?
Just a quick thought.
Wouldn't it make most sense to make the visibility of them optional, in addition to the use of them? That way everyone would be happy.
Thats a damn good idea Mitch, kudos, an optional profile setting maybe, not sure if the forum supports the customisation of this nature, if cant be added within profile then maybe a cookie control to enable or not & with the option of if the cookie is deleted it auto prompts if to enable or disable the viewing of prefixes.
Either way I think it's important to note the the key to this system working is as few as possible pre-fixes rather than a pre-fix for every thread type. Too many choices and the selection can become difficult and the entire point of the system is negated. They must not be ambiguous.
Also certain suggested pre-fixes would be unnecessary when added to a search just like Mitch has pointed out with his bumper +exterior pre-fix search. The pre-fix is irrelevant in that case, along with pretty much everything else on the exterior as they wouldn't be found inside the car.
If you simply look at fundamental changes between the different cars it brings you down to a smaller list such as the fuel type or the number of doors.
Carrying out a search on 'remap' with a TDI pre-fix would bring up threads devoted to that. Now you could argue that just using the search terms 'TDI' and 'remap' would achieve the same thing. It doesn't though because it'll bring up every thread where the words 'TDI' and 'remap' are used at any point in the entire thread. It could be a thread about remapping an S3 but if someone says "I wish my TDI was that powerful" that thread then comes within the search parameters.
I agree that we should not get carried away with the number of prefixes otherwise the whole system becomes unworkable and does not help anyone to find posts on a specfic item. That is what the search function is for.
Personally I see the prefixes more of a way of only browsing through posts related to your particular area of interest rather than as a second search function. A3, S3, TDI, TFSI S-tronic for example.
The ones I listed were just a general idea of what you could seperate them into, I think its clear to most common sensed people you cant have a prefix for every single scenario, thats an impossibility of course, but certainly needs a fair number or again we're back to square one again.
Do you have a list that you think would be used as yet?
Also I agree it with Daves comment on a particular interest area, which was my actual point overall tbh.
Look !! (your going to hate this !!)
Step back and look at what you are sugesting here ...
The thread has a title ! thats the clue to its content. If i see a thread called "S-Tronic problem" i don't need a prefix to tell me this is a gearbox question !
The top threads at this moment are
Number plate light
RNSE radio reception
New S3 prices ?
Bose sub amp upgrade
Part number request
ESP light on
S3..a minor problem...
And so on. They are all self explanitary ! they dont need a prefix, they already have a topic decription in the title. Further more, all these post bar 1 are of intrest to S3 and us lesser owners as well.
I am all for change but not for the sake of it and i don't see one good argument yet to back a change to a system that worked perfectly well anyway.
Yea, i know! Old paddy is a miserable bugger, always moaning
In an effort to make myself even more unpopular i thought i would wade in.......lol
You say you cant have a prefix for every topic but isnt that what the title is ?
I must say Paddy I'm beginning to agree with you. The whole prefix thing is getting out of hand. I think I'm coming to the conclusion I would prefer no prefixes at all than prefixes for all sorts of things. To me the 8P/S3 prefix was OK - I could live with that but now it's just getting too much.
Perhaps if we could educate people to put S3 or A3 as the first letters in the title, there would be no need for any prefixes at all.
I can't believe how passionate some of you guys are about this pre-fix discussion, it's verging on comical!
I think Paddy has hit the nail on the head in his post (112) above... When you start a new thread surely users should just insert the most appropriate description of their post in order to get relevant responses etc? The forum is already divided into the relevant model areas.
Personally I'm not bothered either way about the pre-fixes. I think they have been put there for the right reasons, i.e. to add functionality, and some people find them useful. I don't really see how they add clutter, though.
I am in agreement with much of the PPOV*.... i.e. it is usually pretty obvious what threads are about when looking at the title.
BUT my thinking is all to do with searching, and what Staz has said..... searching for particular terms throws up threads that simply have those terms in them, but are not necessarily RELATED to those terms.
Using the example in this thread.... searching for "bumper" gives 1000 results (including this thread now!). But if it was allocated a prefix of "exterior" and then searched for using that prefix then I'm sure the results would be a lot less and probably more specific.
I'd be happy to have no visible prefixes but have the ability to isolate searches to specific categories.
*paddy point of view
Does this help explain why I don't see the point?
That brings your 1,000 down to 106 in 8P.
In a word................. no.
What happens if bumper, only for example, is NOT in the title? Then the only option is going back to a search with a 1000 results.
Well if bumper isn't in the title, there's a damned good chance the thread isn't about a bumper.
This is my point ! If you cant get across whats in a thread in a six word title you aint got a hope
Why dont you try all this out on the A4/S4 thread or even better....the civic and civicR threads on some other site
Separate names with a comma.