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The Definitive Brake Thread for 8L A3/S3 Owners(and other Golf4 Platform cars).

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by jojo, May 18, 2010.

  1. eddieantifreeze
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    eddieantifreeze Member

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    [Oct 26, 2011]
    Before i say anything else firstly, good thread and guide - 95% of it is correct!

    The one thing i will say is that there is alot more to disk and vane design than meets the eye - if your punting for disks to replace OE ones, generally stick with OE - the disk will have been designed for the application.

    Also, is it common for you guys to suffer brake fade under normal driving in an S3? (stock s3 that is).
    If so I have two questions, how the hell do you drive normally and/or how **** are the brakes?! my little 1.8T stops well and i have no complaints!
  2. BuuBBa
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    BuuBBa Member

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    [Nov 21, 2011]
    So isnt there any rear upgrades for s3?
    Next summer will be upgrading to 18" wheels and now looking for 996 front calipers with 330mm dics. The original rears would look sooooo small with that combination. Still would like to have some proper (rear) set which would not weight tons..
  3. Andrew@A.L.D
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    Andrew@A.L.D Cylinder Head Master

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    [Nov 21, 2011]
    I have a set of 330 mm disc conversion from compbrakes that use the std rear calipers

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
  4. BuuBBa
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    BuuBBa Member

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    [Nov 21, 2011]
    Thanks! Have to check that out.. But damn that original caliper looks so tiny with that disc..
  5. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Nov 21, 2011]
    Not cheap, but I'm using the ECS stage1 rear upgrade.

    http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-TT_MKI-Quattro-225HP/Braking/ECS_Stage_1R/

    Tarox do a similar kit that's easier to source in the UK, and that's similar money.
  6. BuuBBa
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    BuuBBa Member

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    [Nov 21, 2011]
  7. Andrew@A.L.D
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    Andrew@A.L.D Cylinder Head Master

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    [Nov 21, 2011]
    Thats because there are not pads in the calipers as i lost my wind back tool at the time
  8. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Nov 21, 2011]
    Andrew, it doesn't look like the pads even cover half of those big discs. I suppose it's for looks more than performance?!

    I'm looking to just keep my standar calipers but use some decent pads. I do like some of the rear upgrades but I don't like the hefty price for something that won't give that much back.
  9. Alex C
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    Alex C Well-Known Member

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    [Dec 21, 2011]
    the calipers are Brembo 4 pots 36/40mm
  10. snowball1969
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    snowball1969 Member

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    [Apr 8, 2012]
    Is there a guide as to what tool to remove the calliper, now I don't mean the whole assembly I tried to replace my pads but the calliper bolts are round what is one suppose to use to undo as the whole assembly is held on with standard 18mm socket

    Can anyone help

    Cheers

    Paul.
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2012
  11. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 8, 2012]
    It would help greatly if you tell use what brakes you are on about, and whether it's the front or rear?

    You question is a bit vague!
  12. snowball1969
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    snowball1969 Member

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    [Apr 8, 2012]
    Hi
    Sorry I am referring to the A3 TDI 1.9 130BHP front brakes on a 52 plate

    Paul
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2012
  13. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 8, 2012]
    Right, are you telling us that you have rounded the bolts that holds the caliper onto the carrier? So you want to take the whole carrier off with the caliper in place?? Or am I getting this completely wrong?
  14. beachbuggy
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    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 8, 2012]
  15. snowball1969
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    snowball1969 Member

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    [Apr 13, 2012]
    sorry peeps i'm being thick, all done, I brought the draper tool as suggested

    Cheers
  16. slydog18
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    slydog18 Member

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    [Apr 22, 2012]
    I am picking up some LCR Brembos today and just wanna check something.

    I have read somewhere that we should not use DOT 5.1 fluid or such likes as they are silicone based, but this maybe only a mkiv problem. I am going to go to Halfords on the way back to get the Eezi bleeder and was gonna get some DOT 5 fluid or better even though I already have some good quality DOT 4 in the garage.

    Should I just use the DOT 4 I already have as I am not gonna track the car or would a good idea to get 5.0 OR 5.1 if they are OK to use?
  17. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    [Apr 22, 2012]
    motul RBF660 is what gets recommended as the best brake fluid in the universe. and thats a silicone free DOT 4 fluid. but exceeds dot 5.1 standards.

    id go for that myself. people report great peddle feel and little fade and peddle pump up
  18. slydog18
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    slydog18 Member

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    [Apr 22, 2012]
    Does anyone know where I can get this either in West London or around Luton, maybe somewhere kinda in between? Wanna fit the brakes tomorrow if its not raining.
  19. Kiren
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    Kiren New Member

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    [Aug 17, 2012]
    Hi all,
    I am new to this site and not a technical person so appologies in advance if my question seems basic.

    I have an r Reg 1998 Audi 1.9 TDI (R271 GBW) and I would like to put better breaks on it without forking out an arm and a leg.
    Can someone please guide me through what parts I would need for the various break conversions.

    I have been told that the breaks from a Seat Leon 1.9 TDI are the better brakes to put on.. Can someone please advise me on this...

    All help is appreciated...

    Thanks in advance

    Kiren
  20. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 17, 2012]
    S3 brakes are probably the basic first stage upgrade all round. Does your car currently have 280 or 288mm front disks? If its 288 the S3 stuff is a streight swap.
  21. Kiren
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    Kiren New Member

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    [Aug 17, 2012]
    Thanks Aragorn...It is a 280.
    I am interested in the following adaptions

    1 VW Golf R32 | Audi TT 3.2 Quattro- The Front brakes are 334mm x 32mm Vented 2-piece Discs, Twin piston(32mm/42mm) calipers
    2 Seat Leon Cupra R -The Front brakes are 323mm x 28mm Vented (grooved/drilled option) discs with 4 piston(34/38mm)
    3 Audi TT (180hp)-- The Front brakes are 312mm x 25mm Vented Discs, 54mm ATE single piston calipers

    The thread mentions that upgrading from 288 to 312 requires just Carriers and Discs.
    For conversion 3, Am I correct in saying that I need the 288 hubs in addition to the 312 carriers and discs??

    What about the parts and changes for conversion 1 and 2??

    Thanks

    Kiren





    Thanks

    Kiren
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2012
  22. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Aug 17, 2012]
    Kiren, I think the 312mm option is the cheapest option of the three you have selected, option 1 and 2 is overkill for a TDI, unless you have plans to increase the performance?

    Are you after an upgrade as your current brakes are poor for your needs, or you're not happy with the performance of them for general use?
    Kiren likes this.
  23. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 17, 2012]
    1, 2 and 3 all need the 288 style uprights. It must depend what exact engine your car has, as a mate of mine has a Bora TDI (PD130) which came with 288's from factory and the 312's went streight on.

    obviously things start to snowball, but if i were changing the uprights on a mkiv platform car, i'd be seriously looking at converting it to TT/S3 uprights and wishbones, as its a MUCH better setup, and if your changing them anyway, its a perfect opportunity.
  24. Kiren
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    Kiren New Member

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    [Aug 17, 2012]
  25. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 17, 2012]
    Most people who sell the calipers will include the carriers. your ebay link certainly does.

    The hub link isnt correct though, as thats just the hub flange. You need the whole wheel bearing carrier/steering knuckle assembly like this:

    VW Golf Mk4 / Bora 1.9 TDI Drivers Side Front Hub For 288mm Disk AUDI SEAT O/S | eBay

    Those will fit streight onto your car.

    If you want to use the S3/TT version for improved geometry, you alos need S3/TT bottom balljoints, wishbones, track rod ends and probably some other bits ive forgotten. Its supposed to make a huge different to how the car drives though.
  26. Kiren
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    Kiren New Member

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    [Aug 17, 2012]
    Thanks mate... What a great help
  27. Kiren
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    Kiren New Member

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    [Aug 17, 2012]
    Hi Aragorn
    Will the hub from the Above TT fit on my car??

    Kiren
  28. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 17, 2012]
    Which above TT?

    If you mean the new hub you linked to on ebay, thats just the hub flange, not the complete knuckle.

    You essentially have two options.

    1. Use a standard A3/Golf 1.8T hub carrier, and bolt it into your car as is, with the new 312mm brakes.

    2. Use a TT/S3/R32 hub carrier, along with wishbones, balljoints, track rod ends, antiroll bar etc, and the 312mm brakes.

    Option 1 will allow you to fit the calipers, and will leave everything else as it is.
    Option 2 will allow you to take advantage of the much improved suspension geometry found on the S3/TT models, giving you a better handling car, but will obviously cost a lot more as you need to change more parts.
  29. Kiren
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    Kiren New Member

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    [Aug 17, 2012]
    Hi Aragorn,
    After doing some research, I have found that the following cars have the same wheel hubs and can accept 280, 288, 312 and 323 discs:
    Seat Leon 1.9 TDI (BL05 CXO-I own this too)
    VW Bora 1.9 TDI (CF04 VYJ-I checked this in a scrapyard)
    AUDI TT Quatro 225 BHP (LM52 XHU)
    Seat Leon Cupra 222 BHP (YF05 HWN)

    I want to put on the following wheel hubs from GSF as they are for the above mentioned cars:
    PART NO : 415VG0060

    GSF Car Parts

    I want to put on the following bearing kit from GSF as they are for the above mentioned cars:
    PART NO : 413VG0400 £39


    or

    PART NO : 413VG0401 £25



    Euro car parts do 2 bearing kits-SNR and ORBIS
    Wheel Bearing | Wheel Hub | Quality Wheel Hubs & Bearings for any car

    I am unsure about the brake disks o go for
    Q1-Out of the 4 wheel bearing kits, which ones should I go for?
    Q2-Do I need anything else apart from the hubs and the bearings?

    I am considering using the GSF Calipers PART NO : 655VG0490 AND 655VG0480
    Q3 Any suggestions on alternatives Do they accept the 323mm discs??

    Thanks again

    Kiren
  30. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 17, 2012]
    Your not really listening to me mate.

    Your links are for the hub flange, not the whole hub carrier.

    Its not the hub flange thats different, its the bit that houses the wheel bearing and the suspension etc all connects to thats different.

    280mm cars have the caliper carrier cast into this assembly.

    288/312/323/334mm cars have lugs and the carrier bolts onto the hub carrier.

    Compare this 280mm hub carrier:
    VW GOLF MK4 PASSENGER SIDE FRONT WHEEL HUB 280mm | eBay

    to this 288mm one:
    VW GOLF 1999-2004 N/S/F 288MM+ 5 STUD HUB | eBay

    You need the latter style of hub carrier, with the two bolt holes. If you have these already, then the 312's will go right on. If you have the first style, you need to change the hub carrier.
  31. Kiren
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    Kiren New Member

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    [Aug 21, 2012]
    Hi aragorn,
    Thanks for the help.. I sourced the right hubs, calipers, and disks from a chap in Essex for £50.
    There is one problem.
    I currently have 280mm FSIII's (as you might have guessed).
    The mechanic told me I need to change the shocks and perhaps even the suspension... Can I pick your brains on this and clarify what exactly I need. THe old suspension bits do not fit on to the 288 hub...

    Thanks in advance for your help mate.

    Kiren
  32. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 21, 2012]
    As far as i can see the dampers are exactly the same part number for the FS3 hubs as they are for the ATE 288 hubs.

    ETKA lists 1J0413031BH as fitting 1.8 NA/1.9TDI and 1.8T models.
  33. Kiren
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    Kiren New Member

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    [Aug 21, 2012]
    Hi mate,
    I think I got the Mark 3 version...

    Can I use the Hub from an Audi TT??

    Kiren
  34. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 21, 2012]
    yes, but you will also need to use the TT wishbones, track control arms, antiroll bar etc as i explained earlier.
  35. BuuBBa
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    BuuBBa Member

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    [Aug 21, 2012]
    How the disc thickness affects to brake power? Is it just how the heat transfers or something else?
    I was looking for set which discs are .8" (20.3mm) thick..
  36. Kiren
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    Kiren New Member

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    [Aug 26, 2012]
    Hi Aragorn

    I have got the right hubs and the 312 calipers and carriers.

    I am now hoping to change the back ones too. The ones I purchased are the 256mm calipers and carriers off an Audi S3 Quattro.
    I currently have the standard 232mm Solids and the thread mentions
    "If the calipers/carriers have come off a Quattro/4 Motion then you will need some 6mm spacers."

    Can you please tell me where I would get the 6mm spacers and where they will be used??

    Thanks again mate.

    Kiren
  37. AFDanHef
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    AFDanHef Member

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    [Sep 11, 2012]
    I've been doing some research on this as I am getting ready to upgrade to the Porsche calipers.

    Here's a list:

    986 or 987 Boxster 996.351.425.11
    996.351.426.11

    987c Cayman 996.351.425.11
    996.351.426.11

    996
    N/A 911 996.351.425.01 or 996.351.425.21
    996.351.426.01 or 996.351.426.22

    996 Turbo 911 996.351.425.60 (rear calipers)
    996.351.425.60

    All of these should work with Creation Motorsports (or equivalent) adapters. VAG - PORSCHE 4 POT CALIPER ADAPTERS �

    CreationsMotorsport
    says they also have a set of SS braided brake lines to specially fit from an Audi to the Porsche calipers.

    Plus, Alfa Romeo Brera 330mm x 28mm disc redrilled to PCD 5 x 100 (EBC seems to be the cheapest with Grooved and Dimpled)

    This is the set up I'm looking to go with. I'm shopping around for the best buy on some calipers right now and once I have those I will get all the other components.
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2012
  38. frenchman
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    frenchman Member

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    [Sep 11, 2012]
    I personally wouldn't go for ebc dimpled and grooved.

    Seeing as you'll have to get them re-drilled anyway send them to Hi-spec and get them to groove them for you.
    They charger £25 to re-drill and £25 for grooving.

    That's what I ended up doing, I went for EBC plain discs in the end. Worked out the cheapest this way.

    I'm running a near identical setup using 996 front calipers.
  39. AFDanHef
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    AFDanHef Member

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    [Sep 11, 2012]
    Awesome advice!!

    Thanks!!
  40. Golfer1991
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    Golfer1991 Member

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    [Sep 23, 2012]
    Seems my S3 doesn't have the 2 bleed nipples on the brake master cylinder, is that possible?

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